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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgore Sweet Potato View Post
    The asian guilds just work harder than the others. The others could choose to work harder too but instead they choose to just exclude the asian guilds from their race. That's one way to be world "number one" I suppose. It's a bit like calling the world series winners "world champions" of baseball when they're really just US champions.
    That's like comparing American Football to Rugby. They are the same game with different rules.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by inkberry View Post
    Pretty much this.

    The majority of hardcore raiding is by people with too much free time / teenagers that don't work. Usually whiny little brats.
    Part of the reason world first kills are so challenging is because the guilds are attempting to do them with very low ilvl compared to what they will have after multiple lockouts. If one of the EU guilds had every raider given 2 pieces of heroic gear prior to the first week of attempts on heroics, they would clearly have an advantage over the others. In that case, the race would not be a fair one because there is an advantage present that other guilds do not and cannot have.

    This is exactly the situation when comparing Asian guilds to EU/US guilds. They have access to higher ilvls through a method that EU/US realms cannot replicate.

    If you or anyone else has a logical, rational reason why we should consider people who have an advantage that cannot be duplicated to be part of the same race, I would be interested to hear it (keeping in mind that "anyone who disagrees with me is a whiny little brat" isn't a rational reason.)

  3. #43
    Field Marshal inkberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgore Sweet Potato View Post
    The asian guilds just work harder than the others. The others could choose to work harder too but instead they choose to just exclude the asian guilds from their race. That's one way to be world "number one" I suppose. It's a bit like calling the world series winners "world champions" of baseball when they're really just US champions.
    Not with wow. WoW is not popular in the asian community for a reason; because it's a low skill cap / "low strategy" game that isn't entirely respected in their community. I've spent time in Korea/China for Starcraft 2 and I've had the opportunity to ask questions like this. The majority of asians you meet that play wow are your average gamer type that you'd find in the west as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    Part of the reason world first kills are so challenging is because the guilds are attempting to do them with very low ilvl compared to what they will have after multiple lockouts. If one of the EU guilds had every raider given 2 pieces of heroic gear prior to the first week of attempts on heroics, they would clearly have an advantage over the others. In that case, the race would not be a fair one because there is an advantage present that other guilds do not and cannot have.

    This is exactly the situation when comparing Asian guilds to EU/US guilds. They have access to higher ilvls through a method that EU/US realms cannot replicate.

    If you or anyone else has a logical, rational reason why we should consider people who have an advantage that cannot be duplicated to be part of the same race, I would be interested to hear it (keeping in mind that "anyone who disagrees with me is a whiny little brat" isn't a rational reason.)
    TL;DR: world first kills are "challenging" because hardcore raiders push content while they're undergeared until they get good enough RNG to kill the boss after they've figured out an appropriate strategy for the mechanics.
    Last edited by inkberry; 2013-09-30 at 09:21 AM. Reason: quote

  4. #44
    Mechagnome Zhaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    http://www.wowprogress.com/pve/asia

    You just have to find it. It doesn't show Chinese realms though, there's probably a reason why, I just don't know it yet.
    China have 2 raid resets per week so they are in a different race to TW and KR that's why they aren't listed

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgore Sweet Potato View Post
    The asian guilds just work harder than the others.
    in goldfarming or what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgore Sweet Potato View Post
    The others could choose to work harder too
    not even worth a comment.... say that to those crazy progress guilds raiding 6-7 days a week up to 12 hours a day or even more during progressweeks till farmstatus... but ok, maybe asian days do not just have more ilvls and lockouts but even more hours a day? like 36 or smthn?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgore Sweet Potato View Post
    but instead they choose to just exclude the asian guilds from their race. That's one way to be world "number one" I suppose. It's a bit like calling the world series winners "world champions" of baseball when they're really just US champions.
    give EU/US progress guilds the same opportunities (more lockouts, higher ilvls) or drop asian guild to the normal international rules to make it equal and we would see who is best (not that i really care for who kills what first).... until that happens don't you ever say such BS again ^^
    Last edited by danuraya; 2013-09-30 at 09:27 AM.

  6. #46
    Pandaren Monk Yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Pretty simple. Double the lock outs a week (everything resets 2 times a week, not once), duel 10 and 25 man lockouts per week (can do both in a week), higher item levels, different clients.

    I know some people pass all these things away as excuses.. but then I reckon if all the top European and US guilds were just mailed BiS heroic gear on patch day and they beat the Asians then that would simply be an excuse why they would win under that logic. Pure and simple, if you want a race to be fair all the cars have to do the same amount of laps, have similar cars, and have at least similar start and finish lines (even in a race sometimes not every car starts along the edge of the line, they stagger). The US and European guilds have that pretty damn similar, and I wish they would just do the maintenance on the same time to get rid of the time differential, but that is just a fact of life we have to deal with. But at least they fight the same bosses, with the same gearing progression, with the same number of lockouts. The only difference is a day shifted forward for the US, and a extra day shifted back for the Europeans. (America starts 24 hours ahead and Europeans get to continue playing for 24 hours while US servers are down at the end of the week).

  7. #47
    Because Wowprogress is biased and doesnt want to show asian guilds progress, if you want a real ladder-list of the whole world here is one:

    http://www.loyogou.com/game/wow/ladd...ldLadders.html
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by goodband View Post
    It was all separated back when the Asian's were given two lockouts a week as a pose to just 1 like the rest of us,
    FYI the term is "as opposed to". It seems to be a mistake that is somewhat common, given that english can sound odd to those not born to it. Figured knowledge is better than lack thereof. Hope you don't take offence!
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  9. #49
    Fluffy Kitten Siri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhaine View Post
    China have 2 raid resets per week so they are in a different race to TW and KR that's why they aren't listed
    I already got an answer and it has nothing to do with the lockouts!

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Trollfaced View Post
    Because Wowprogress is biased and doesnt want to show asian guilds progress, if you want a real ladder-list of the whole world here is one:

    http://www.loyogou.com/game/wow/ladd...ldLadders.html
    Yeah lets put up a list of the world's fastest 100m sprinters in the same list as the world's fastest 100m hurdlers and see who is the overall fastest. It's stupid to compare the two as they are different races with different sets of rules.

  11. #51
    The Patient vickvinegar's Avatar
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    It is seriously mindboggling/scary as hell that common sense is just flying out the window on this subject, are trolls just running rampant? This is insane.

  12. #52
    They get higher ilevel loot in 25-man than we do and have other perks like 2 lockouts per week. Hence they simply compete with completely different conditions.

    They killed a 10H boss with gear from 25H. (Think back to Wrath about the difference)
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  13. #53
    The Patient vickvinegar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sildor View Post
    They get higher ilevel loot in 25-man than we do and have other perks like 2 lockouts per week. Hence they simply compete with completely different conditions.

    They killed a 10H boss with gear from 25H. (Think back to Wrath about the difference)
    Everyone read this and let it soak in. AKA common sense

  14. #54
    high item level gear, 4 times the loot (10/25 lockouts, 2 lockouts per week). the Asian guild who killed Garrosh should be able to celebrate because they won a race, but EU/US first and Asia first are very different things.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
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  15. #55
    Yeah I think they're celebrating regardless of what people on forums have to say about "wahh they got more gear wahh" etc
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    EU/US first and Asia first are very different things.
    I agree with you that the Asia first is a world first and EU/US first is just EU/US first.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgore Sweet Potato View Post
    I agree with you that the Asia first is a world first and EU/US first is just EU/US first.
    well that's redundant really, you're being pointlessly pedantic. yes, they are the first guild in the world to kill Garrosh Hellscream on heroic mode in the MMORPG World of Warcraft, but 'world first' isn't just as simple as 'who killed it first'. exploit kills (Saronite Bombs?) are not considered world firsts, because the concept of 'world first' is the idea of who, considering equal conditions, is able to do the exact same thing before anyone else, and that doesn't apply to a situation where one group of competitors has a different set of conditions. your post raises the very relevant question of whether we should still be calling it 'the race for the world first' because Asia and EU/US should be competing separately for two equally prestigious positions.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  18. #58
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    on the 1st of October, it will be 3rd week that SoO is available with that in mind.
    EU / US 5.40 release 10 September Total of 3 Lock outs maximum, without using alt raids to funnel gear.
    Asian 5.40 release 10 September total of 12 lockouts (2 Per week for 10 man, and 2 per week for 25 man)
    Now if one of the leading guilds get a kill in before 12 resets (which they most likely will do) then will the people who are saying that it is a fair race between Asia and EU/US agree that they got there first ? or is it more likely that they will make up yet another excuse ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    I think the way it works is that 25man loot starts at 2/4 upgrades done, don't quote me on that though.
    Quoting you on that just to do it.

    Grats to them on the kill, 8 ilevels across the board is a nice bit though.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgore Sweet Potato View Post
    The asian guilds just work harder than the others. The others could choose to work harder too but instead they choose to just exclude the asian guilds from their race. That's one way to be world "number one" I suppose. It's a bit like calling the world series winners "world champions" of baseball when they're really just US champions.
    haha, ignorance to the max. no, the others could not kill garrosh normalmode 4 times per week, even if they wanted to. they could only kill him once per week. no, the others do not have 4 instead of 2 upgrades on their 25 man gear.

    all that butthurt talk from asians or fans of them. you are in your own game, stop complaining. and IF you want to complain, do it to blizzard and beg them to make your ruleset equal again with that of the rest of the world.

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