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  1. #1
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Does this kill the Sunreaver conspiracy theory?

    The new visual guide has little sections dedicated to each of the main characters of the playable races. The BE one covers all of their leaders, and mentions the purge in both Rommath and Aethas's bios. Relevant bits:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aethas Sunreaver
    A heavy proponent of neutrality, Aethas worked hard as a champion of the Horde's cause, eventually earning the Horde a place in Dalaran during the war in Northrend. Outgoing and enthusiastic, Aethas' eternal optimism was tested when the Horde began to openly declare war on the Alliance after the Cataclysm. Aethas holds Warchief Garrosh Hellscream just as much to blame for the purging of Dalaran as Jaina herself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Magister Rommath
    He holds no love for the Kirin Tor, showing little surprise when Lady Jaina Proudmoore threw the support of the once-neutral organization behind the Alliance. Rommath's true loyalty is to his people.
    Bit curt, but still. This isn't player inferences or guesswork; it's Blizzard themselves saying both of them had pretty natural reactions to the purge, and I don't think it would be written so plainly if either was complicit or responsible for it. Optimistic, enthusiastic and outgoing champion of neutrality Aethas is actually an evil pawn of Garrosh? Rommath, whose loyalty is to his people first and foremost, would get them killed in an elaborate power play? I don't buy it. Especially not now.

  2. #2
    Also in Lor'themar's bio on Blizzard's site:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lor'themar Theron
    The regent lord initiated conversations with King Varian Wrynn, hoping to rejoin the Alliance, but Garrosh sabotaged his diplomatic efforts by organizing a heist in Darnassus and focusing blame on the blood elves.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-10-02 at 10:03 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord
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    Or perhaps Blizzard just didn't want to make it ridiculously obvious so that it's a point of debate and it's more of a shock later on down the line.

    I think he was originally meant to be involved (Aethas) but they decided to change their mind post 5.2, but perhaps we'll never find out

  4. #4
    Stood in the Fire
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    whats sunreaver conspiracy theory?
    Last edited by lokinrond713; 2013-10-03 at 03:20 AM.

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokinrond713 View Post
    whats teh sunreaver conspiracy theory?
    That Aethas and other parts of Blood Elf command knew fully about Garrosh's plan in Dalaran, unless i'm very mistaken

  6. #6
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    oh. well im of the opinion that aethas did a poor job at managing his subordinates.

  7. #7
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Or perhaps Blizzard just didn't want to make it ridiculously obvious so that it's a point of debate and it's more of a shock later on down the line.

    I think he was originally meant to be involved (Aethas) but they decided to change their mind post 5.2, but perhaps we'll never find out
    That's the thing though, the reveal wouldn't really mean anything at this point. The Kirin Tor are on the Alliance for good and the Sunreavers are folded into Silvermoon. The guy who abused their neutrality to steal the bell is ousted from power and the bell itself was a flukey piece of trash that corrupted a few Horde orcs and then got destroyed. It's kind of a non-issue at this point.

    It would've admittedly been a good way to seed Aethas as an SoO boss, but that ship's sailed too.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    That's the thing though, the reveal wouldn't really mean anything at this point. The Kirin Tor are on the Alliance for good and the Sunreavers are folded into Silvermoon. The guy who abused their neutrality to steal the bell is ousted from power and the bell itself was a flukey piece of trash that corrupted a few Horde orcs and then got destroyed. It's kind of a non-issue at this point.

    It would've admittedly been a good way to seed Aethas as an SoO boss, but that ship's sailed too.
    If anything I'm more surprised we didn't see Thalen Songweaver as a Siege of Orgrimmar boss since the guy was clearly a Garrosh loyalist from the very beginning. Due to the enormity of the raid, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a boss Blizzard seriously considered but ultimately rejected to keep the size to a doable length.
    Roleplaying, hardcore Raiding, running LFR on the occasional weekend, PvPing, rolling alts, achievement hunting, pet battling, or just enacting an endless series of whims, I don't care how you play WoW. Just as long as you have fun doing it.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    Bit curt, but still. This isn't player inferences or guesswork; it's Blizzard themselves saying both of them had pretty natural reactions to the purge, and I don't think it would be written so plainly if either was complicit or responsible for it. Optimistic, enthusiastic and outgoing champion of neutrality Aethas is actually an evil pawn of Garrosh? Rommath, whose loyalty is to his people first and foremost, would get them killed in an elaborate power play? I don't buy it. Especially not now.
    Neither of them were pawns, Blizz spelled it out that Garrosh wanted to sabotage the Blood Elves. What wasn't spelled out was whether or not he caught wind of Lorthemar having a meeting with Varian. *if* there is a 5.5 patch with more lore developments wrapping up SoO perhaps we can see Sunreavers like Thalen Songweaver brought to justice and learn what happened entirely with Aethas.
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lokinrond713 View Post
    oh. well im of the opinion that aethas did a poor job at managing his subordinates.
    I agree. I doubt Garrosh would've been able to pull it off without any Sunreaver support, but a few of them loyal to the Horde first would've been able to do so without tipping of Sunreaver leadership.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    If anything I'm more surprised we didn't see Thalen Songweaver as a Siege of Orgrimmar boss since the guy was clearly a Garrosh loyalist from the very beginning. Due to the enormity of the raid, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a boss Blizzard seriously considered but ultimately rejected to keep the size to a doable length.
    I'm holding out hope he'll be set up as like a personal nemesis to Jaina. That'd be pretty cool.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  12. #12
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Does this kill the Sunreaver conspiracy theory?
    Yes, it does!
    Finally clear and undeniable proof that we had nothing to do with it.

    Can we now kill Jaina as revenge for what she did to our people?

  13. #13
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Yes, it does!
    Finally clear and undeniable proof that we had nothing to do with it.

    Can we now kill Jaina as revenge for what she did to our people?
    Jaina was still justified in the purge of Dalaran, the sunreavers were still compromised and couldn't remain in Dalaran.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Yes, it does!
    Finally clear and undeniable proof that we had nothing to do with it.
    Not really. The issue of how much Aethas knew and when he knew it is unanswered, as is the exact depth to which the Sunreavers were actually involved.

    Can we now kill Jaina as revenge for what she did to our people?
    You mean...offer them a chance to leave peacefully, imprisoning them when that offer was refused and bringing the full might of Dalaran down upon those who resisted arrest?

    EJL

  15. #15
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Jaina was still justified in the purge of Dalaran, the sunreavers were still compromised and couldn't remain in Dalaran.
    That really justified the imprisonment and execution of so many innocents (Y)
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Not really. The issue of how much Aethas knew and when he knew it is unanswered, as is the exact depth to which the Sunreavers were actually involved.
    The game and the stories are clear on that: Nothing and none.
    You mean...offer them a chance to leave peacefully, imprisoning them when that offer was refused and bringing the full might of Dalaran down upon those who resisted arrest?
    You know she didn't have the authority to make such a decision?

  16. #16
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    That really justified the imprisonment and execution of so many innocents (Y)
    Aethas made the mistake not to take Jaina's offer to leave the city, a single rogue magi in Dalaran could be devastating, so yes the purge is justified, it might be morally wrong but it doesn't change the fact that something like this had to be done. The sunreavers are also justified to retaliate on the Isle of Thunder, there is no ultimate right and wrong only choices and their consequences.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  17. #17
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Kang just end it and stop demonizing Jaina. Seriously you're grasping at straws. Seriously it's fucking asinine that you want to kill someone over something minor but Garrosh? nobody bats an eye.


    That really justified the imprisonment and execution of so many innocents
    No, not really.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron

  18. #18
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falrinn View Post
    If anything I'm more surprised we didn't see Thalen Songweaver as a Siege of Orgrimmar boss since the guy was clearly a Garrosh loyalist from the very beginning. Due to the enormity of the raid, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a boss Blizzard seriously considered but ultimately rejected to keep the size to a doable length.
    Yeah, this bothered me. Songweaver would've made a great accomplice and "subtle" foil to Garrosh IMO, as a straight boss or a mini boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Not really. The issue of how much Aethas knew and when he knew it is unanswered, as is the exact depth to which the Sunreavers were actually involved.
    Involved in what though? The bell's theft?

    This is my biggest issue with players' interpretation of the purge. Not Aethas, not Jaina, not who's in the right or wrong, but the idea that HUGE swathes of the Sunreavers were somehow complicit in a covert espionage mission given to a catspaw by the Warchief of the Horde and his top general. It's unrealistic if not logically impossible.

  19. #19
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    Involved in what though? The bell's theft?

    This is my biggest issue with players' interpretation of the purge. Not Aethas, not Jaina, not who's in the right or wrong, but the idea that HUGE swathes of the Sunreavers were somehow complicit in a covert espionage mission given to a catspaw by the Warchief of the Horde and his top general. It's unrealistic if not logically impossible.
    And that is the core problem even a handful of sleeper agents would be enough to cause serious mayhem, Aethas should have taken Jaina's first offer to leave the city with all of his people, it is incredibly unrealistic that many sunreavers were horde loyalists, but unfortunately only a few are necessary to threaten the entirety of Dalaran.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  20. #20
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Kang just end it and stop demonizing Jaina. Seriously you're grasping at straws. Seriously it's fucking asinine that you want to kill someone over something minor but Garrosh? nobody bats an eye.
    We imprisoned Garrosh and he's facing his judgement.
    Jaina deserves no separate treatment after her behaviour.

    All the lives lost because she went insane is hardly 'grasping at straws'.
    I don't need to demonize her because she is doing a good job herself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Aethas made the mistake not to take Jaina's offer to leave the city
    Which would be an excellent argument if the city was ruled by Jaina and not the 'council of six'.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    And that is the core problem even a handful of sleeper agents would be enough to cause serious mayhem, Aethas should have taken Jaina's first offer to leave the city with all of his people, it is incredibly unrealistic that many sunreavers were horde loyalists, but unfortunately only a few are necessary to threaten the entirety of Dalaran.
    So if I go crazy, demand that you leave Lübeck and you refuse than I am in my right to kill you and imprison your family? Really?

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