So.... any reason why the top guild's hunter went for fervor?

[Conjor]

Briefly looking through the code seems to agree that this theory might be correct, but it has been a long day at work and I may be misreading. I will stress the "brief" look part. Here's some of the relevant code for those interested, with the red stuff being what I believe is most important...:

// Arcane Shot Attack =======================================================

struct arcane_shot_t : public hunter_ranged_attack_t
{
  arcane_shot_t( hunter_t* player, const std::string& options_str ) :
    hunter_ranged_attack_t( "arcane_shot", player, player -> find_class_spell( "Arcane Shot" ) )
  {
    parse_options( NULL, options_str );
  }

  virtual double cost()
  {
    return thrill_discount( hunter_ranged_attack_t::cost() );
  }

  virtual void execute()
  {
    hunter_ranged_attack_t::execute();
    consume_thrill_of_the_hunt();

    trigger_tier16_2pc_melee();
    if ( result_is_hit( execute_state -> result ) ) {
      trigger_tier15_4pc_melee( p() -> procs.tier15_4pc_melee_arcane_shot, p() -> action_lightning_arrow_arcane_shot );
    }
  }

  virtual void impact( action_state_t* state )
  {
    hunter_ranged_attack_t::impact( state );
    if ( result_is_hit( state -> result ) )
    {
      p() -> buffs.cobra_strikes -> trigger( 2 );

      // Needs testing
      p() -> buffs.tier13_4pc -> trigger();
    }
  }
};

// thrill_of_the_hunt support =============================================

  void trigger_thrill_of_the_hunt()
  {
    if ( p() -> talents.thrill_of_the_hunt -> ok() && cost() > 0 )
      // Stacks: 3 initial, 3 maximum
      if ( p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> trigger( p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> data().initial_stacks() ) )
        p() -> procs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> occur();
  }

  double thrill_discount( double cost )
  {
    double result = cost;

    if ( p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> check() )
      result += p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> data().effectN( 1 ).base_value();

    return std::max(0.0, result);
  }

  void consume_thrill_of_the_hunt()
  {
    if ( p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> up() )
    {
      double cost = hunter_action_t::cost();
      p() -> resource_gain( RESOURCE_FOCUS, cost, p() -> gains.thrill_of_the_hunt );
      p() -> buffs.thrill_of_the_hunt -> decrement();
    }
  }

virtual void execute()
  {
    ranged_attack_t::execute();

    if ( p() -> specs.steady_focus -> ok() )
      trigger_steady_focus();

    if ( p() -> buffs.pre_steady_focus -> stack() == 2 )
    {
      double haste_buff = p() -> buffs.steady_focus -> data().effectN( 1 ).percent();
      haste_buff += p() -> sets -> set( SET_T14_4PC_MELEE ) -> effectN( 3 ).percent();

      p() -> buffs.steady_focus -> trigger( 1, haste_buff );
      p() -> buffs.pre_steady_focus -> expire();
    }

    trigger_thrill_of_the_hunt();

    trigger_tier16_bm_4pc_melee();

    if ( result_is_hit( execute_state -> result ) )
      trigger_wild_quiver();
  }

I can confirm that TotH was double dipping. It was reducing the cost of AS (as expected) then immediately after also restoring 20 focus to the Hunter. I'm looking at a fix right now and running some sims to see what has changed.

UPDATE

Here are my new results with the fix:



MM REINS SUPPREME

[Rocksteadee]

He is also not the raid leader of the #1 25m west guild in the world, and if you think that raid leading wont lower your dps then I don't know what to say.

Kuznam did a pretty damn good job of it.

On topic: Nice detective work guys. Always nice to see sims become more accurate.

[Perrito]

I can confirm that TotH was double dipping. It was reducing the cost of AS (as expected) then immediately after also restoring 20 focus to the Hunter. I'm looking at a fix right now and running some sims to see what has changed.

UPDATE

Here are my new results with the fix:



MM REINS SUPPREME

How you manage to cleave with MM if you have nothing to cleave with?

i have a lot of question do you have a post or guide, would love to try out MM again, i have LONG LONG LONG LONG time i dont play it and would love to play it again even if it means i would have to go back to cast aimshot.

[Puerto]

What's MM_DB_MoC_AS? Is that Aimed Shot as your filler instead of Arcane Shot?

[mediic]

What's MM_DB_MoC_AS? Is that Aimed Shot as your filler instead of Arcane Shot?

Usually Arcane Shot is abbreviated as AS and Aimed Shot is AiS. My guess from looking at the numbers he has posted earlier is the _AS profiles are where he is dumping with Arcane Shot outside of CA/Haste.

[Conjor]

Usually Arcane Shot is abbreviated as AS and Aimed Shot is AiS. My guess from looking at the numbers he has posted earlier is the _AS profiles are where he is dumping with Arcane Shot outside of CA/Haste.

This is correct.

[Kissthebaby]

as with survival, fervor and blink strikes are probably the best realistic choices for talents for best dps for marks.

[bewsh]

Is this double dipping currently present in female dwarf's modeling as well or just limited to simcraft?

[eschatological]

I really, really hate the awkwardness of DB. Getting full uptime on it is near impossible if the boss moves at all during that 15s window. Moves 5 feet to the left? Miss one attack. More than that? at least two attacks. Has to switch to another target since you switched and DB isn't a pet you can just keep on one target? GL.

[Zeherah]

Is this double dipping currently present in female dwarf's modeling as well or just limited to simcraft?

No, it's just in simc. The code on my site doesn't work the same way at all- it just reduces the focus cost when charges of thrill are available for arcane and multishot. I'm guessing the issue in simc is related to an old version of thrill of the hunt that worked differently and never got cleaned up properly when they changed it, but I don't remember very well how the old thrill worked.

- - - Updated - - -

No, it's just in simc. The code on my site doesn't work the same way at all- it just reduces the focus cost when charges of thrill are available for arcane and multishot. I'm guessing the issue in simc is related to an old version of thrill of the hunt that worked differently and never got cleaned up properly when they changed it, but I don't remember very well how the old thrill worked.

Danshot, in reply to your question- what you can do in simc is actually have it run several profiles in a single report, which will let you compare different talents or other configurations. This is what Conjor does when he generates those graphs he's been posting.

[Spiralphoenix]

So, do we have a way to get this fix to the maintainer of the hunter model for SimC? Might help avoid having to correct a lot of people in the days/threads to come that "ToTH is overvalued in SimC" over and over... though I probably overestimate how many people actually bother to do the work themselves and get their own numbers. Regardless, it should be brought up to them if they're still actively maintaining it.

[Conjor]

So, do we have a way to get this fix to the maintainer of the hunter model for SimC? Might help avoid having to correct a lot of people in the days/threads to come that "ToTH is overvalued in SimC" over and over... though I probably overestimate how many people actually bother to do the work themselves and get their own numbers. Regardless, it should be brought up to them if they're still actively maintaining it.

My fix was passed off to Lokrick yesterday, he seems to be the Hunter guy for Simc. It is up to him when he gets around to commiting the fix. I would do it myself but I don't have repo access

Also, I'm not 100% sure of the build cycle for Simc. My assumption was that a full build was released whenever one of the main devs felt there were enough fixes / changes to warrant rebuilding all the packages. So unless you are watching the repo yourself, pulling and compiling whenever you want to run sims, this change (and all the other minor changes) won't hit you for a bit.

[Glurp]

My fix was passed off to Lokrick yesterday, he seems to be the Hunter guy for Simc. It is up to him when he gets around to commiting the fix. I would do it myself but I don't have repo access

Also, I'm not 100% sure of the build cycle for Simc. My assumption was that a full build was released whenever one of the main devs felt there were enough fixes / changes to warrant rebuilding all the packages. So unless you are watching the repo yourself, pulling and compiling whenever you want to run sims, this change (and all the other minor changes) won't hit you for a bit.

On a somewhat related topic Conjor, you mentioned that your MM profile you use was different to the default one. Are you able to say what you changed in it?

[Conjor]

On a somewhat related topic Conjor, you mentioned that your MM profile you use was different to the default one. Are you able to say what you changed in it?

Super secret changes that make it play like I play MM. More Aimed Shots for EVERYONE!

[bewsh]

My assumption was that a full build was released whenever one of the main devs felt there were enough fixes / changes to warrant rebuilding all the packages. So unless you are watching the repo yourself, pulling and compiling whenever you want to run sims, this change (and all the other minor changes) won't hit you for a bit.

Well... that sucks if that's the case.

I'm actually surprised there is no automated build triggered by a new commit.

[Conjor]

Well... that sucks if that's the case.

I'm actually surprised there is no automated build triggered by a new commit.

During patches commits may happen very often. Doing full builds, especially those which involve the UI, take a fair amount of time.

[Desh]

Pottm is simply a better hunter.

This is the first fight I have ever seen Pottm do more damage than Rogerbrown.

[Paulosio]

According to femaledwarf.com fervor, blink strikes and glaive toss are the max dps for my character as survival and BM.

I actually find fervour feels smoother to play than the other 2 talents so I was happy to see femaledwarf backing my choice up...

The thing I find suprising is that survival actually sims slightly higher than BM for me on femaledwarf... 285k for BM but 295k for Survival. I realise that this depends on situation and may not reflect how things work in game entirely accurately.

My armory:
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...aryliss/simple

I'm curious what results simcraft gives but have never really worked out how to use it properly..

[mediic]

When you get suprising results in FD make sure you are updating the shot priority to reflect talent changes. For example you may of changed from blink to crows without telling it to start casting crows.

You have 4pc and Harroms. SV should sim higher.
Fervor and Blink should not be simming highest for SV, though they are situationally useful and fervor does 'feel' nice.

[Stridur]

Fervor lines up with so many things it hard not to use