1. #1

    [Resto] Stats Priority

    So, as i get more gear i keep wondering if intellect becomes better, and i would like some suggestions if i should keep going for mastery or switch to intellect.

    my armory for inspecting if its not too bothersome (in case you find anything wrong with other stats)

    eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/sylvanas/Larneo/advanced


    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Everything is fine, you simply need to change haste gems to mastery as your gear improves.
    Fail to prepare. Prepare to fail.

  3. #3
    1 intellect is worth 2 mastery, so you never really want to gem pure intellect. The mixed gems that you have are fine. Int/mastery (or haste) in reds, pure mastery (or haste) in yellows, and spirit/mastery (or haste) in greens is the standard guide for gemming as a resto druid.

    when it comes to 1:1 ratios... intellect > spirit until comfortable > haste to 3043 or 13163 > mastery > crit > more spirit > more haste
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  4. #4
    Aye, that's pretty much how they're geared Jordaen.

    The maths at the start of the xpac indicated that 2:1 mastery was better than intellect at 22k sp or so, and then became more so. There hasn't been massive changes to sp coefficients or what mastery effects, so I'd imagine it's still similar. Perhaps not mathed recently because we have so much more sp than the original breakpoint was, only fundamental changes in mechanics would result in needing a rework. Mastery should only get stronger.

  5. #5
    Hamlet over at Elitest Jerks has done all the math and theory crafting on this particular subject.
    Its not really the SP coefficient that changes, its just simply that mastery is an additional source added into the equation because its 100% passive increase on top of what SP already gives you.

    Simply put it means the more you have of one (int or mastery), the better the other has as a point for point value added and eventually you will want to balance them in some way, because they both provide a static healing increase. It just took the numbers this long to finally even out where we have too much intellect. Also the tweaking of how these two work and spells being modified by mastery etc etc play into it a bit.

    Yea there is the INT scaling with buffs and such, but theres also mastery scaling as well. Well i guess not so prevalent as much in 5.4 since the mushrooms aren't crazy with mastery like they were in 5.3. I believe it was because the heal was double dipping into resto druid mastery and also critting. But you get what im saying. Not here to be exactly rhetorical about the facts, just to provide the jist of them for you.
    Last edited by Flemdawg; 2014-02-07 at 07:12 AM.

  6. #6
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flemdawg View Post
    Simply put it means the more you have of one (int or mastery), the better the other has as a point for point value added and eventually you will want to balance them in some way, because they both provide a static healing increase.
    Almost, but not quite. You were right all the way up to the end. Neither intellect nor mastery provides a static healing increase: they all scale with everything and intellect even scales with itself thanks to the spell crit you get from it. Out stat scaling has never been particularly complicated mathematically, it just depends on what stats you currently have, what your raid composition is like, the difficulty you're doing and which specific fight you're trying to gear for, making it hard to make any general statements that apply to everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flemdawg View Post
    I believe it was because the heal was double dipping into resto druid mastery and also critting.
    Mushrooms critting was also a case of double dipping. The higher your intellect, mastery and crit are, the more your Rejuvenations heal for and the faster the mushroom will grow. Allowing the bloom to scale with those stats would mean double dipping on them.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  7. #7
    Have re-read the thread on EJ's I was referring to. Mastery should be taken over Int on 2:1 basis when buffed SP is greater than mastery by 22.5k (a while ago now). Same thread reckons, when SP is 45k greater than mastery then mastery becomes better 1:1. It has to relate to SP scaling as SP becomes more expensive per % increase as you gain more, mastery is largely a flat % increase. The SP/mastery interaction makes the slope as gentle as it is.

    It seems likely that for sheer output even crit would be worth taking over Int on a 2:1 basis at this point. Clearly you never would though, as mastery is just better. I don't have a huge issue with crit though, it's a pretty reliable throughput stat for us.
    Last edited by Tyrantworm; 2014-02-08 at 07:31 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrantworm View Post
    Clearly you never would though, as mastery is just better.
    It is? Even at extreme amounts of mastery vs a miniscule amount of crit? I was lead to believe otherwise.

  9. #9
    it is at about 50% mastery
    assuming you have about 20% crit (which is what you about have at current int levels w/ buffs and maybe 1 or 2 crit pieces)

    at 50% mastery 720 mastery is about a 1% increase to healing, and so is 720 crit around that point

    at that point, 480 mastery is a 1% increase to 2/3 of your healing done giving,

    and 480 crit is a 0.8% increase to your non crits (80% of your heals should be non-crit at 20% crit), giving a 64% increase to healing per 480 crit rating
    also this means that it will be correspondingly larger increase based on your PPP ilvl (for purpose of what I think is clearer I'm just leaving things as post-PPP w/ buffs and treating crit more like a dependent variable)

    however, crit doesnt work w/ bloom's base heal (as far as I know) and glyphed regrowth, it's still somewhat irrelevant
    and it's really only relevant w/ PPP with a decent amount of warforged gear

    at least that's how I think it works, please correct me if I misunderstood any game systems or mathed wrong

    the only real practical meaning from it is that it isn't too terrible of an idea to take a WF crit piece
    so at 45%+ mastery, they could loosely be deemed fairly equal in power, but it's really just best to ask hamlet, ej, twitter, or treecalcs

    and it doesn't make too much of a difference as the difference in healing done would be miniscule, even if you just chose to ignore crit, as that's just when their values get close, and there really isn't going much higher than 50% mastery, even in 580 ilvl, unless you're running like sub-8k spirit (I think, but then again, I'm only 574, so we may need someone who's good at this game to confirm)

  10. #10
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demez View Post
    It is? Even at extreme amounts of mastery vs a miniscule amount of crit? I was lead to believe otherwise.
    In theory, crit does become better than mastery at some point. In practice, you're going to have a bunch of crit from intellect, raid buffs and the occasional sub-optimal piece already. Having ~13k spirit and 13k haste also means you're never going to see any particularly high mastery values as a resto druid.

    If there was another tier this expansion then it may have become relevant (assuming we didn't go for the 23289 haste breakpoint), but this tier you're not going to get more than 40-45% mastery anyway.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    In theory, crit does become better than mastery at some point. In practice, you're going to have a bunch of crit from intellect, raid buffs and the occasional sub-optimal piece already. Having ~13k spirit and 13k haste also means you're never going to see any particularly high mastery values as a resto druid.

    If there was another tier this expansion then it may have become relevant (assuming we didn't go for the 23289 haste breakpoint), but this tier you're not going to get more than 40-45% mastery anyway.
    You do get 3000 mastery from raid buffs too, that's not something to ignore. And also, doesn't Naturalist still stack additively with Mastery? That might be something to add into the calculation to the mastery %, but I'm not too sure if that functionality was removed when it was given back to druids.

  12. #12
    Aye "never" was perhaps badly worded on my part. I was of course referring to acting under our current conditions.

    It's interesting seeing peeps not instantly neg crit as a resto stat. In some ways it's a shame we won't see that extra tier before level change, back to spi till comfortable>rejuv breakpoint>mastery of last couple of xpacs I guess.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrantworm View Post
    Aye "never" was perhaps badly worded on my part. I was of course referring to acting under our current conditions.

    It's interesting seeing peeps not instantly neg crit as a resto stat. In some ways it's a shame we won't see that extra tier before level change, back to spi till comfortable>rejuv breakpoint>mastery of last couple of xpacs I guess.
    Yeah. At the moment I'm sitting at 49,15% mastery and 22,47% crit when fully buffed. With a simple calculation, dismissing temporary int buffs, regrowth's 60% added crit and shrooms uncrittability (only affects base healing, as overheal rejuv crits do stack up shrooms), we can come to a conclusion that it takes around 480*1,4915 = 716 mastery ratings to get 1% extra healing through mastery, and 600 * 1,2247 = 735 crit rating to gain 1% more healing through crit, so at the moment those values are for me pretty close, and I'm still very very far from a best in slot setup, with still running one normal mode item and having only two hc wf items.

    I could easily see someone with a bit more item level and slightly more Haste/mastery oriented stat itemzation have crit become at least completely equal in stat value, basically meaning you can just sum up all the stats on two pieces of gear and pick whichever has the highest total. This is what I'm pretty much doing myself already.

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