Thoughts on this? >.<

[Juni]

Aight, so for the fun of comparison as I'm kinda behind my fellow warrior in gear I decided to sim both of our chars. And that's when I saw this:

Warr 1 (me):


Warr 2:


Sooo.. This was achieved in 530-4 (did download latest one before doing this). Is this a result of the wrong crit cap in SimCraft? Or is crit really just that good at 560+ ilvl? I would agree that this might be the case with (hc) amp trinket, however Warr 2 is the only one out of the 2 of us that actually has it.

Now, before someone "speshull" comes in here and says I shouldn't take SimCraft as the Bible; I don't. I just find it to be interesting.

[Darkfriend]

Crit is really that good, especially w/ Thok's and as TG.

[Juni]

Crit is really that good, especially w/ Thok's and as TG.

I totally agree, but I don't have Amp trink tho, and I'm still seeing those numbers. Lol.
Time to rethink my gemming I guess :P

[Kankipappa]

Heh. I'd gem Crafty Vermillion Onyx in your case then, if the socket bonuses are good and socket is red. If you're thinking of going to pure crit gems sim it first.

My TG's Crit is also +- ~6.xx too, while having the normal trinkets (and whole gear, haven't had luck getting any heroic drops yet).

[Darkfriend]

IDK be careful. I just replaced a lot of expertise/crit gems w/ pure crit because my crit value got so high. And I don't have thoks yet.

[Damosapien]

is what i'm on, but i am at 42.5% crit :P

[Warriorsarri]

The value of crit just goes higher and higher the more gear I get, will be silly in full BiS!

[Juni]

Heh. I'd gem Crafty Vermillion Onyx in your case then, if the socket bonuses are good and socket is red. If you're thinking of going to pure crit gems sim it first.

My TG's Crit is also +- ~6.xx too, while having the normal trinkets (and whole gear, haven't had luck getting any heroic drops yet).

160 crit > 120 strength, and exp can easily be obtained from other stats :P

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IDK be careful. I just replaced a lot of expertise/crit gems w/ pure crit because my crit value got so high. And I don't have thoks yet.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to fiddle around quite a bit, at least with bis and what not to see what make us close to exp cap while not losing out on crit at all.

Question tho, would our bis list change if we do go full out crit? Cuz the lack of expertise through gems will be pretty huge and I dont know if we're able to get enough exp through reforges.

But yeah, ur crit value will continue to increase when u get amp then >< what a ridiculous trinket.

[sjsctt]

All this stuff says to me is what we've known: gem crit>mastery=str>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>haste=hit over cap

[Juni]

is what i'm on, but i am at 42.5% crit :P

And I'm on 41,54% atm, so I dont think that's the issue.

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All this stuff says to me is what we've known: gem crit>mastery=str>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>haste=hit over cap

Yeah. Looks like it.

[Kankipappa]

160 crit > 120 strength, and exp can easily be obtained from other stats :P

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Yeah, I'm gonna have to fiddle around quite a bit, at least with bis and what not to see what make us close to exp cap while not losing out on crit at all.

Question tho, would our bis list change if we do go full out crit? Cuz the lack of expertise through gems will be pretty huge and I dont know if we're able to get enough exp through reforges.

But yeah, ur crit value will continue to increase when u get amp then >< what a ridiculous trinket.

Point is, with your stat values you could reforge all your "gemmed" expertise to mastery and so 160crit + 160 mastery + strength socket bonus = better than 320crit with no bonus. That is, if you believe sims

[Juni]

Point is, with your stat values you could reforge all your "gemmed" expertise to mastery and so 160crit + 160 mastery + strength socket bonus = better than 320crit with no bonus. That is, if you believe sims

Wat.. are u saying I should use mastery + crit gems..? O.O

[Shakari]

Aight, so for the fun of comparison as I'm kinda behind my fellow warrior in gear I decided to sim both of our chars. And that's when I saw this:

Warr 1 (me):


Warr 2:


Sooo.. This was achieved in 530-4 (did download latest one before doing this). Is this a result of the wrong crit cap in SimCraft? Or is crit really just that good at 560+ ilvl? I would agree that this might be the case with (hc) amp trinket, however Warr 2 is the only one out of the 2 of us that actually has it.

Now, before someone "speshull" comes in here and says I shouldn't take SimCraft as the Bible; I don't. I just find it to be interesting.

Where do you get the sim for this from btw?

[Kankipappa]

Well as you know.. expertise + crit gem is orange, giving you the red socket bonuses. Then you get "overcapped" on expertise due to gemming, what you will naturally offset by reforging expertise to mastery. So basically the expertise part of your gems is mastery if you can reforge it to that. Mastery is up there next to strength and crit on value so it's kinda useful to do.

Of course you probably can't reforge all your expertise away if you just put exp/crit on every red slot, so it's easier to just take the 1 socket bonuses that way.

[Juni]

Well as you know.. expertise + crit gem is orange, giving you the red socket bonuses. Then you get "overcapped" on expertise due to gemming, what you will naturally offset by reforging expertise to mastery. So basically the expertise part of your gems is mastery if you can reforge it to that. Mastery is up there next to strength and crit on value so it's kinda useful to do.

Of course you probably can't reforge all your expertise away if you just put exp/crit on every red slot, so it's easier to just take the 1 socket bonuses that way.

Ok. So you're saying that 160 exp + 160 crit + 60 strength (which is the socket bonus when u have 1 gem) is better than 320 crit when the value of crit is 6.63? And yes mastery is really strong and up there, but sitting on too much expertise cuz u can reforge some out of it, or even using str + crit gem isn't worth it compared to straight up crit when the value of crit is that high.

Unless u can show some math to prove me wrong? Cuz the expertise u can either get by reforging out of haste or hit (if u can) or even taking certain items over what's considered bis - like Wall-Borer Bracers (exp + crit) over Bracers of Blind Hatred (mastery + crit). That will most likely optimize the amount of crit you get while maintaining hit+exp cap. Yes, mastery will suffer! But crit > mastery, so getting more crit while losing some mastery is still worth it. Though the more crit u have the higher the value of mastery become aswell.

I haven't actually sat down and calculated how full crit works on items with 2 or more sockets. But I don't see why it would change, as the "relation" between the gems and socketbonuses remain the same (1 socket is worth 60 strength/other stat).

[Darkfriend]

Juni, it depends. I simmed and it was worth going to mostly yellows and reforging into expertise from mastery. After I did it, values changed enough so I could change back and it would also be a gain. Large changes tend to shift weights. It really is close either way.

[Juni]

Juni, it depends. I simmed and it was worth going to mostly yellows and reforging into expertise from mastery. After I did it, values changed enough so I could change back and it would also be a gain. Large changes tend to shift weights. It really is close either way.

Oh definitely, as I said in previous post: high amounts of crit makes mastery a more desired stat. But right now, seeing how the value of crit just explodes with ilvl and amp trinket, I'll be going full out crit when I get that damn trinket and take some exp items to compensate (without dropping crit ofc). On top of that I still see non-crit BTs, which is EXTREMELY frustrating, and if ure not enraged mastery is kinda useless. It doesn't take long to click BR if that does happen, but it still makes the stat useless :P So I just need that damn amp trinket now D:

[Deleted]

I simmed myself yesterday and was a bit suprised how much thok trinket affects our stat weights (I have not read anything about it), my Crit stat weight was 1.52 when my str was 1.0. Now I'll have to use crit elixir and crit buff food (200 crit rating). D:


EDIT:
I simmed again after switching most of my gems to pure crit gems and now crit is at 1.37, str 1.00 and mastery at 1.00

[bigbad]

If mastery is like 02.-0.3 SEP lower then crit then crafty gems are worth it as 0.3*160=48 and the socketbonus is 60. Just have to see if the difference between mastery and crit isn't 0.4 or bigger which it shouldn't be for most gearsets.

[Kankipappa]

Oh definitely, as I said in previous post: high amounts of crit makes mastery a more desired stat. But right now, seeing how the value of crit just explodes with ilvl and amp trinket, I'll be going full out crit when I get that damn trinket and take some exp items to compensate (without dropping crit ofc). On top of that I still see non-crit BTs, which is EXTREMELY frustrating, and if ure not enraged mastery is kinda useless. It doesn't take long to click BR if that does happen, but it still makes the stat useless :P So I just need that damn amp trinket now D:

Well to tell the truth, I'm mostly agreeing with you on those parts. It's the most annoying thing to have non BT crits or even get only stormbolt hits when you got all cooldowns aligned up. That's why I included "if you believe sims" plus a smiley, since those never really transfer well to the actual situation(s). If anything, going full crit will make it more stable and less spikey.

But still, I do take some red bonuses. For example the tier head, since it's a really hard one to pass up with only getting a 160crit gain while losing 180 str + 160 exp.