Help our BrM monk!

[sarasun]

Hello! As the thread title says, I feel like our BrM monk needs a little bit of help with his play. He might not like too much that I would post on a forum, but I will regardless.

Logs of our progression on Thok
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...aipanda/simple

I'll include logs of earlier boss kills because I realise Thok isn't the perfect fight, but any insight on what he could do better to help down Thok would be nice.

Logs from Shamans to Spoils


Now, I've been trying to learn how to use Comparebot correctly so I compared him to another, albeit much more geared monk (that also dual-wields compared to 2H) on 10N Thok (sub-10% wipe, our best).

Comparebot

What can I learn from all of this? I don't know monks too much so I'm not sure where to look at.

[Thiassi]

First off from lookig at the Dark Shaman kill he needs to keep shuffle up, his shuffle is 33% uptime and he only used Blackout kick 15 times! Even on his Malkorok kill he has shuffle up 85.9%, MUCH BETTER, but in comparison, my uptime for shuffle is 97.5%. In every fight log I've looked at he doesn't shuffle enough, I'd suggest getting a little more haste for more chi for more purifies. But otherwise his gear looks fine to me.

Also, he needs to stop spamming Breath of Fire!!!!

[Art3x]

Shuffle uptime is awful!

Glyphs need to be changed.

Stop using Breath of Fire.

[RuneeBH]

He can definitely use a bit more haste. Especially for a fight like Thok, he isn't going to have the energy to keep up shuffle and purify as much as he needs to. I know that the first week I ran with 4k~ haste and couldn't really do it, not 'cause I didn't know what I was doing more because it was just difficult to find a balance..I ended up going up to 6k haste the next week and I'm smooth sailing now.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm gonna say I think its lack of haste, I'm comparing my Thok kill last week (6:45) to some of your attempts that are a bit longer, and he just isn't using the amount of abilities that he can if he upped his haste a bit

[sarasun]

What about Avert Harm? I noticed the logging BrM Monk used it while ours didn't (on Thok). Could it help staying in P1 longer?

[Thiassi]

Avert Harm is only used for redirecting raid damage to the monk, so if he is already taking a lot of damage, I don't recommend it. Whenever I use it I tend to use it in conjunction with Zen Meditation

[Solial]

What about Avert Harm? I noticed the logging BrM Monk used it while ours didn't (on Thok). Could it help staying in P1 longer?

It's used as a raid wall or personal magic cooldown. If using as a raid wall, the BrM will be taking some of that damage. I use it on Thok heroic a couple times when I'm done tanking in a phase, I walk in the middle of both groups and avert harm with a ~1.8mil guard.


@Runee. I've started to only purify now if I'll get some benefit from the heal. If the heal will overheal, then why remove the damage anyways? (Unless you have absorbs on you that you don't want broken). I've been sitting on thok at 800k vengeance, 100% hp and a 150% stagger and I'll wait till he hits me again and drops me to 60% to purify. I much rather get that 22.5% of my hp heal in there.

[Drunkonbrew]

For Advert Harm on Thok I use it when I am not tanking the boss. It can actually help out as more screams go out but he is gonna have to be aware that they will need the haste to purify the damage that he is taking. It is a good CD for that fight in my honest opinion.

I would say that he needs more haste because the amount of damage that he is taking would be to hard with his level of haste. That level of haste was ok for the 4 set tier 15. But with the new tier he needs to have enough to purify to get the most out of the bonus.

Using Breath of Fire is only on if he can keep up Shuffle. I honestly never use Breath of Fire unless it is on the adds from Garrosh. I don't think that it is a great DPS boost at all and so I would suggest to stop using it all together and just do BoK.

If he is getting lower on health he needs to be able to use Expel Harm more. I kinda use it when I see my health lower then 50% health just because it gives the healer time to react.

This spec is one of the hardest to learn because you have to keep the buffs up but it is probably the most rewarding as well. So good luck and if you need anything else let us know

[TheLady]

Shuffle uptime is awful!

Stop using Breath of Fire.

If he doesn't understand this: Breath of Fire costs 2 chi (that's a lot of chi), and you want to conserve chi so you can use Blackout Kick (also costs 2 chi), which increases your shuffle.

Priority:
1) Save chi and use for Blackout Kick
2) If you have a lot of shuffle and think you're able to keep it up given the time it's up (say you have shuffle up for the next 30s), *then* you can use Breath of Fire for a little more mob dps/threat.

Treat Breath of Fire like a luxury and unnecessary spell. In fact, might even ask him to take it off his actionbar to wean himself off of it.

[Deleted]

The Thok fight u choose to compare isnt quite good becuase ur monk died quiet early. But looking at ur other fights his shuffle uptime is bad. he can go up to 7k haste maybe and look if he can maintain better uptime. when he masters this he can go down to 6k and so on. i think daught from midwinter was on 4-4.5 k. the problem with this low haste is, its less forgiving. when u choose to jab shortly before ur kegsmash comes off cooldown u have to wait 3-4s to hit it ( im doing this wrong sometimes too, so i choose 6k to be my hastecap). when becoming better and better u can go with less haste.
maybe he can't track his buff uptime properly ( the blizzard ui isnt suited to keep track of shuffle). Weak Auras always helps. there are many premade auras here on mmo.
and always keep in mind that his gear is a bit behind the rest ( his weapon especially ). monks greatly profit from weapon damage, so he cant be competed against most other monks.

[sarasun]

and always keep in mind that his gear is a bit behind the rest ( his weapon especially ). monks greatly profit from weapon damage, so he cant be competed against most other monks.

Is that enough to put him at about 50% of our blood DK's damage?

Also, if I look at the whole night's buffs gained, no fortifying brew. Am I misreading something here? It seems like a great cooldown to pop pretty much every other P1 at least. Any reason he would not use it?

On the shamans --> Spoils with 2 Thok pulls log, he used it 4 times. Wouldn't it be used multiple times in a fight?

[Solial]

For Advert Harm on Thok I use it when I am not tanking the boss. It can actually help out as more screams go out but he is gonna have to be aware that they will need the haste to purify the damage that he is taking. It is a good CD for that fight in my honest opinion.

I would say that he needs more haste because the amount of damage that he is taking would be to hard with his level of haste. That level of haste was ok for the 4 set tier 15. But with the new tier he needs to have enough to purify to get the most out of the bonus.

Using Breath of Fire is only on if he can keep up Shuffle. I honestly never use Breath of Fire unless it is on the adds from Garrosh. I don't think that it is a great DPS boost at all and so I would suggest to stop using it all together and just do BoK.

If he is getting lower on health he needs to be able to use Expel Harm more. I kinda use it when I see my health lower then 50% health just because it gives the healer time to react.

This spec is one of the hardest to learn because you have to keep the buffs up but it is probably the most rewarding as well. So good luck and if you need anything else let us know

I don't remember the exact number. With somewhere around 8,000-9,000 haste we should have enough energy to get 2 jabs in between every keg smash and be able to use it on cd. That is 4 chi every 8 seconds. Blackout kick requires 2 chi every 6. The common factor is 24. You need 4 blackout kicks every 24 seconds. You get 6 extra chi for guards and purify (assuming you're using CDR trinket from Thok). That means every 24 seconds you can 4 times. or once every 6 seconds without being chi starved for shuffle. It's really not that hard to keep shuffle up unless you're running around not hitting the boss, in which case when you get back in melee range you can reapply it in a minimal of 2 gcds.

BrM is not hard to play. It's not one of the "most rewarding" or every top guild would be running them.

[Thiassi]

He should be close to even with the dk, the weapon holds him back a lot. He used Breath of Fire about twice as often as Blackout kick and Blackout Kick did more damage, once he starts using blackout kick his dps (and damage intake) will improve a decent amount. Yes he should use Fort Brew a lot more than 4 times in a night. On shamans I use it on pull and again whenever I feel there is an oh shit moment coming (running from the blobs spawning and ranging the healers)

[SurrealNight]

Is that enough to put him at about 50% of our blood DK's damage?

Low shuffle + Tiger Power uptime means he isn't doing an optimal DPS rotation either so a big part of the issue is that. Having a 33% uptime means on a 6 min fight you are missing out on 46 Blackout Kicks which can hit for > 100k on average so that is millions of damage not being done. Tiger palm is also a free filler that should be used any time no Chi/Energy is available and is not being done to capacity either.

Fort Brew depends on the fight and your raid and your healers. Some fights I use it often others I don't use at all saving for an emergency of a bunch of healers dying or something if the general fight mechanics don't call for it. That being said with this BrM's play he should probably be using it as often as possible =P

On Shamans I use it on the pull just since I have bosses + dogs all on me and then just chill tell the < 25% rage phase. Thok depends how long you are staying in the various phases and how many stacks you plan to take. This week healers decided to really flex their muscles and kept us in 2nd gate phase forever and both tanks got frozen back to back and I ended up dying. Still somehow managed to rank (and 3rd DPS) despite being dead for final gate burn.

[puremyth]

He doesn't need 100% uptime on shuffle, it is a 2 tank encounter, if you aren't tanking you aren't doing anything other than trying to bank extra for the next time you are tanking, which is not necessary. other tank just taunted off of you and you want to make use of that vengeance before it drops then breath of fire isn't the worst use. This is assuming that his uptime is 100% while he is tanking it and that the breath of fire is after it has been taunted off. My overall uptime for shuffle on this fight is between 50 and 70% pending if I'm tanking the jailer or not, my uptime while tanking is 98% or higher.

I would advise let the monk tank first so once thok is taken off him he can come over to the group and avert harm a bit further into the phase once screech is coming a bit quicker. I personally also like taking chi torpedo for this fight since the group is stacked I'll come off thok with 150k vengeance and let some big heals hit the group, can also angle toward the group and chi burst even while tanking. If the heals aren't such a big deal then stick xuen, but from my experience the small bit of damage a brm can push doesn't mean as much as keeping the phase alive with a couple million extra in heals. Also note most guilds 2 heal thok, and thok being a dps check those wipes may well be a dps issue.

[Art3x]

Nevermind that the deafening screech is physical damage, which shuffle will reduce dramatically, or if you pop avert without shuffle up and get gibbed.

[puremyth]

avert harm is 6 seconds, not hard to do an extra blackout kick and have shuffle up for it, and if I'm not healing with chi torpedo/chi burst (during which that extra 40k pulse doesn't mean nearly as much as doing half a million in healing with a well timed torpedo) then I'm likely dpsing and end up with shuffle up anyway. most of the downtime is in the blood frenzy stage, being in position to open doors or pick up the boss, I'm just saying you don't need to expect 90-100% uptime, 66% likely means he's got it up the majority of the time where it makes a difference. Depends somewhat on strat too, we might keep him in bloodthirsty longer so sitting at the cage ready to open for 30 seconds changes uptime

[SurrealNight]

OP's monk has unacceptably low shuffle + tiger power uptime on all fights I didn't even look at the thok logs because of the goofy nature of that fight. 85% on Malkorok which is basically just standing there and occasionally rotating the boss is a sure sign of play style issues dropping to 33% on Shaman.

Also saying it's "OK" to let shuffle drop should never be said in a general sense. If you have something better to do while not "tanking" with your energy/Chi besides cycling Jab (RJW) and BoK then please say so. Don't say Breath of Fire either which should only be used if at all on add heavy fights and never single target. I NEVER use Breath of Fire and hold a top 100 parse on almost every fight I've downed so it's not even needed for good DPS.

[Art3x]

Surreal sums it up nicely.

[The Madgod]

He doesn't need 100% uptime on shuffle, it is a 2 tank encounter, if you aren't tanking you aren't doing anything other than trying to bank extra for the next time you are tanking, which is not necessary. other tank just taunted off of you and you want to make use of that vengeance before it drops then breath of fire isn't the worst use. This is assuming that his uptime is 100% while he is tanking it and that the breath of fire is after it has been taunted off. My overall uptime for shuffle on this fight is between 50 and 70% pending if I'm tanking the jailer or not, my uptime while tanking is 98% or higher.

Breath of Fire should only be used if:

• You have shuffle stored so that it doesn't fall off by using chi on BoF
• You are using it on multiple mobs with the dizzying haze buff

Otherwise it's a straight DPS and / or mitigation loss.

This guy had a 33% overall uptime on shuffle on one of the encounters. He should not be using Breath of Fire at all. There really is no excuse for intentionally letting shuffle drop.