How to heal 25m as a MW?

[Angarin]

I just picked up my mistweaver today recently and forgotten how fun it was. My only concern is I've never been able to heal as well as I do in 10m as MW compared to my resto druid or even my priest. I've heard that MW's are really strong in 10m, but I'm sure there is a way to succeed in 25m/LFR healing.

I haven't raided normal since tier 14 so I'm a bit behind the spectrum.

Any advice as far as 25m healing such as stat priorities, spell priorities, and just anything to put me in a good direction is much helpful.

If you have any questions I'll do my best to answer.

PS. My monk is being transferred/faction changed at the moment so linking my armory would be somewhat irrelevant, but I'll link it for now and see how long it lasts for.

Thank you in advance

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Jirat/advanced

[Deleted]

Get started by reading the guide at the top of the section

[Angarin]

I'm already familiar with how to heal as a MW I'm just curious specifically how to heal 25m.

[Deleted]

To be frank with you, you're not in a state to heal much past 5 man heroics/t14 lfr maybe? Your gear is lacking basic optimization, you're not at a haste breakpoint and you're missing several enchants and gems. I understand you want a pointer on how to heal 25 mans, what I'm telling you is that you're going to see more benefit properly sprucing up your character than you'll see from making gameplay tweaks.

[Nakanai]

I'm already familiar with how to heal as a MW I'm just curious specifically how to heal 25m.

There aren't really that many differences between 10 and 25man healing. The main one is that you do a lot less (by which I mean "practically none") tank healing in 25man. T30 and T90 talent choices are usually different in 25man vs 10man (Chi Burst and Chi Torpedo are a lot more commonly used). But if you say you know how to play a MWer in 10man, then you know how to play it in 25man. Maximize ReM usage, use TFT before raid damage is coming out, burst heals with Uplift. Except that now you have Chi Burst & Chi Torpedo for more AoE burst heals (i.e., don't just mindlessly use Chi Burst on CD the way you would w/ Chi Wave; you can save it a few seconds if there's AoE coming up). Obviously, Xuen, RJW, Chi Wave, and Zen Sphere have their uses as well, but part of being a good MWer is knowing the fights, knowing what the damage patterns are, and changing talents & glyphs to match.

As Reglitch said, though, you're failing on some rather basic points that should be taken care of before you worry about the difference in healing styles between 10man and 25man. Reforging to a proper haste breakpoint is the most important thing. Enchanting your gear if you're at all serious about clearing content is a no-brainer. Enchants are the cheapest, materials-wise, this expansion as they've ever been in the history of WoW - even if you're planning on replacing a piece soon, there's no reason not to enchant things. And for gods' sakes, spec Chi Brew instead of Power Strikes, and drop Life Cocoon and Mana Tea glyphs for Enduring Healing Sphere & ReM.

[Angarin]

To be frank with you, you're not in a state to heal much past 5 man heroics/t14 lfr maybe? Your gear is lacking basic optimization, you're not at a haste breakpoint and you're missing several enchants and gems. I understand you want a pointer on how to heal 25 mans, what I'm telling you is that you're going to see more benefit properly sprucing up your character than you'll see from making gameplay tweaks.

I'm glad you want to help, and I know you seem like a good mistweaver, but I cannot take your advice. I don't think you are seeing the point. I didn't really ask for fixing my character kind of thread. I'm asking specifically how other mistweavers go about healing their 25m's & if someone cares to offer LFR advice for 'epeen'.

Nothing personal, but I just don't think you understand the point. I am in progress though of sprucing up my character though. I am also not missing any gems.

I am in progress of working on the haste breakpoint. I think at some point when I did do the reforging on this toon I could've sworn I saw spirit (to comfort) > crit > anything else. Perhaps I'm misguided or my info is outdated

- - - Updated - - -

There aren't really that many differences between 10 and 25man healing. The main one is that you do a lot less (by which I mean "practically none") tank healing in 25man. T30 and T90 talent choices are usually different in 25man vs 10man (Chi Burst and Chi Torpedo are a lot more commonly used). But if you say you know how to play a MWer in 10man, then you know how to play it in 25man. Maximize ReM usage, use TFT before raid damage is coming out, burst heals with Uplift. Except that now you have Chi Burst & Chi Torpedo for more AoE burst heals (i.e., don't just mindlessly use Chi Burst on CD the way you would w/ Chi Wave; you can save it a few seconds if there's AoE coming up). Obviously, Xuen, RJW, Chi Wave, and Zen Sphere have their uses as well, but part of being a good MWer is knowing the fights, knowing what the damage patterns are, and changing talents & glyphs to match.

As Reglitch said, though, you're failing on some rather basic points that should be taken care of before you worry about the difference in healing styles between 10man and 25man. Reforging to a proper haste breakpoint is the most important thing. Enchanting your gear if you're at all serious about clearing content is a no-brainer. Enchants are the cheapest, materials-wise, this expansion as they've ever been in the history of WoW - even if you're planning on replacing a piece soon, there's no reason not to enchant things. And for gods' sakes, spec Chi Brew instead of Power Strikes, and drop Life Cocoon and Mana Tea glyphs for Enduring Healing Sphere & ReM.

My apologies, chi brew was horrible before 5.4 and when I read the guide they were all situational. I hadn't understood we had bread & butter talents now. As for the glyphs mana tea glyph has been needed since day 1 of mistweaver on MoP release. Since when did it not?

EDIT: I went ahead & did the reforging & glyph changes as well as chi brew change.

I'm still quite curious though beyond keeping ReM on cd and TFT pre-emptively what a 25m mistweavers challenges are and how he/she usually overcomes then and the general strategy behind a 25m mistweaver.

I know the basics. I want to make this clear, I'm not the best mistweaver, but I was a main mistweaver throughout MoP beta, saw all of its tid bit & changes go on. I then RaF granted my monk to 80 instantly, completely ignoring my current 85's and hitting 90 the following day. I healed as a MW 10m through msv but the guild died at elegon so I had to compensate by being so far behind in progression that I haven't been able to raid in a normal guild and still aren't to this day. This is what I'm trying to do now.

I understand you guys want to help, just please understand where I'm coming from. I'm not a completely noob or idiot. I know the basics even beyond the basics. I'm looking for the advanced class at this point. I need a map.

[ElfinHilon10]

To be frank with you, you're not in a state to heal much past 5 man heroics/t14 lfr maybe? Your gear is lacking basic optimization, you're not at a haste breakpoint and you're missing several enchants and gems. I understand you want a pointer on how to heal 25 mans, what I'm telling you is that you're going to see more benefit properly sprucing up your character than you'll see from making gameplay tweaks.

This guy is somewhat right. You could heal current content and 5 mans with out any problem. The issue is that you'd be really undergeared in current raiding content that'd you fall quite far below what is needed.

First things first, you need to have 3,145 haste rating OUTSIDE of being in Stance of the Wise Serpent. The reason for this is because if you are you in the stance when you reforge, you'll be too low when you get the 50% bonus. See here

"Q - "So hold on, do I need 3145 haste rating in serpent stance or without it??? I'm so confused."

A - I suppose that by this you're aiming for 16.65% haste, which is the 2nd breakpoint on Renewing Mist giving you an 11th tick. If you're in a group with a class that can provide 5% haste such as a shadow priest or balance druid, this requirement gets pushed down to 11.10% haste which you'll need to obtain from your gear since there are no other static raid haste buffs which you can count on. However, you also have Stance of the Wise Serpent's (SWS) effect which increases your haste rating by 50%. This means that without SWS you only need 7.40% haste so that when you do have SWS active this gets buffed to 11.10%. Therefore it is recommended that when reforging you use Stance of the Fierce Tiger. Finally, to get 7.40% haste you'll need 3145 haste rating from your gear."


Secondly, a few of your talents are off for 25 man raiding. For instance, Chi Wave isn't as good in 25 as chi burst, or even zen sphere, but only if the raid is grouped up (think something like Feng the Accursed, where most of the time you stay stacked with in the bubble for aoe healing). In situations like that, you'd stand a little back from the raid, target the boss, and shoot your chi blast. Also, Chi Torpedo is a rather difficult talent to use. If you can use it well, that's awesome, but I very much prefer using Rushing Jade Wind for AoE, since it let's do other healing as well. Renewing mist and thunder focus tea is also extremely important to use as well, coupled with uplift.

For this reason I generally will use Chi Brew (I think it's called) as you can time Thunder Focus Tea with Uplift and getting absolutely massive AoE healing coupled with Rushing Jade Wind. If you need more help feel free to add me on Battle.net.

My ID is Elfinhilon#11331.

[Angarin]

That summed most of it up for me, there wasn't really much else outside of what the previous 2 said.

I'm not aiming to get into current raiding content quite yet as you said I'm severely undergeared for it, but as a practice if I end up finding a 25m guild (I'd prefer a 10m due to the strength of the MW in 10m) I'd like to be prepared on how to perform it. And a good place in my heart to start is in LFR. Although the numbers may not always be accurate due to snipe healing in LFR the practice can still be gained there from my personal experience.

I don't currently have any more questions as I've been messing around with it before you posted, but if I have any random ones pop up and you're willing to answer I'm willing to ask.

[Theurgie]

I would try to get into as many raids as you can each week & heal people while learning how to spread ReM onto as many people as you can. Read as much as you can in these forums & go do raids. That is probably going to be the best advanced class you can take right now. Nothing beats experiencing & doing it yourself.

[Angarin]

I would try to get into as many raids as you can each week & heal people while learning how to spread ReM onto as many people as you can. Read as much as you can in these forums & go do raids. That is probably going to be the best advanced class you can take right now. Nothing beats experiencing & doing it yourself.

Do you think LFR qualifies in your opinion as getting the practice? Or is snipe healing taking away from that to much?

[Theurgie]

Do you think LFR qualifies in your opinion as getting the practice? Or is snipe healing taking away from that to much?

TBH, any raid (10m, FLEX, 25m & LFR) would be great practice. The reason I listed LFR is because it's easy to get in one & it's 25m. When I moved to a 25m guild from 10m guild, I used LFR as a means to practice since I couldn't find any 25m PuG outside of world bosses. I also did 10m N ToT but LFR is where I got a chance to see how many ppl I could get ReM on.

[Ponk]

It seems to me that people keep giving you advice and you are shrugging it off a bit. Maybe I'm interpreting the tone of your posts incorrectly though

Numerically, chi brew wasn't the best MW talent before 5.4. In practice however, it was arguably the best MW talent, providing an extra short cooldown. It's important to understand that the on-demand chi from Chi Brew alone is a vital tool in your kit. Not to mention the extra stacks of Mana Tea can be useful, especially at low gear levels.

On the topic of Mana Tea, the glyph for it has been situational at best since 5.4. The consumption rate of Mana Tea now matches the stacks consumed by glyphed Mana Tea, meaning that glyphing Mana Tea is only really useful on fights where you'll be moving a lot.

There aren't many differences in 10 to 25 man healing, with the most prominent ones being talent choices. Rushing Jade Wind is valued much more in 25m than 10m. Zen Sphere and Chi Burst are also much better in 25m than 10m, with Chi Wave severely lacking in comparison(again, 25m) on most fights.

Most importantly, as many people have said before me, your gearing strategy is flawed and, if corrected, would benefit your healing more than asking us how to heal will.

[Angarin]

I'm assuming my gearing strategy is just I'm not at the haste breakpoint correct?

I'm not trying to shrug off people's advice, but I made it clear in one of my previous posts I wasn't 100% new to the class let alone at 90 and I felt as though I was being treated as such. I did admit my knowledge was probably outdated and I corrected it. I am in the process of trying out different builds in LFR to see what fits best still currently in the one ElfinHilon10 recommended.

[ElfinHilon10]

I'm assuming my gearing strategy is just I'm not at the haste breakpoint correct?

I'm not trying to shrug off people's advice, but I made it clear in one of my previous posts I wasn't 100% new to the class let alone at 90 and I felt as though I was being treated as such. I did admit my knowledge was probably outdated and I corrected it. I am in the process of trying out different builds in LFR to see what fits best still currently in the one ElfinHilon10 recommended.

I do just want to say, there aren't any best glyphs or best talents for mistweaver. Many talent and glyphs will needed to be switched around. For instance, the renewing mist glyph and chi wave talent would be VERY good on a fight like Immersious. Most of the other fights (that I have done) the renewing mist glyph isn't that good.

[Ponk]

Fixing your gear would mean hitting the haste BP and at least throwing cheaper end enchants on your gear.

It's also a little weird to throw purified gems in some of your red slots, then throw brilliants in others but that's a bit nitpicky and somewhat explainable if your "spirit comfort" is 10400.

EDIT: Huge point: ElfinHilon10 is extremely right - Switching talents and glyphs around to match the damage patterns and raid strategy of a specific fight is important to performing well as a Mistweaver (in 10m at the very least).

[Angarin]

I do just want to say, there aren't any best glyphs or best talents for mistweaver. Many talent and glyphs will needed to be switched around. For instance, the renewing mist glyph and chi wave talent would be VERY good on a fight like Immersious. Most of the other fights (that I have done) the renewing mist glyph isn't that good.

Thats what I had figured, just by the sounds of how you phrased it you made it sound like I was a 100% scrub. (The life cocoon glyph was pretty horrible.)

[ElfinHilon10]

Thats what I had figured, just by the sounds of how you phrased it you made it sound like I was a 100% scrub. (The life cocoon glyph was pretty horrible.)

Yeah Life Cocoon glyph is pretty much never going to be used. Least not in current content that I am aware of. It COULD have been good, again, on a boss like Feng the Accursed (because if there is bad position, and you don't see the ball of lightning, you or multiple healers COULD be stunned) but it's still something that's for pvp. There's really no other use for it.

[Deleted]

I'm not a completely noob or idiot. I know the basics even beyond the basics.

- Oh I'm not so sure about that..

Basic 25man healing is I guess ReM @ CD, uplift, Chi torpedo when somewhat stacked. Spinning crane kick as filler if healing is needed. Soothing mist spam if fast chi is needed.. Expel harm on CD..

And I dont get your comment on Chi brew being shit pre 5.4 ...

[Entropy]

Chi brew was amazing prior to 5.4 but that is ok. As for healing in a 25 man. It is the same concept as a 10.
ReM on cd.
Expel on when u need chi.
Uplift spam to victory of the over heal meter
If you have the gear, ScK all day.
-----
Don't waste chi on EM on your tank if you have dedicated tank healers, there is no point uplifting will do just as good.
Make sure you don't channel SM, spam it

I am pretty sure all of this is mentioned in the general thread that you clearly did not read. Also, Mana tea glyph is actually worthless atm.

As Reglitch said. I think you should get better at learning the class before hoping into a raid and being a burden on people. Which is hopefully the point of this thread. But as people have pointed out. the http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-PvE-Guide-5-4 thread will literately answer any question you had. Be it gemming, haste break points, glyphs, talents for fights, enchants, and reforging. As well as play styles for different raid sizes.

[Deleted]

The most basic advice I can give:

Healing as a MW in 25m is mostly not about throwing a heal spell at an injured person, it's about throwing widespread random heals which you amplify when more damage is coming in. It's a playstyle that is quite disconnected from what's actually happening in the fight and skillwise translates very roughly to:

- keeping ReM on cooldown
- using your chi mostly for uplift when damage comes in or when you hit max chi.
- fill the time between uplift and ReM with sipping mana tea and generating chi (expel harm, SCK, soothing mist)

It's like a loose rotation of building chi with mana and regaining mana from spent chi that you enhance with your cooldowns for more intense portions of the fight.