45 min LFR queue as DPS. Yes, it's about tanks...

[Socialhealer]

like every other decent tank, we've moved up to flex and normal mode.

i don't think making 8 out of 11 classes being able to tank is a good idea, then all of a sudden you feel like your class is totally gimped if you're 3 of the classes that can't tank.

[Wyrt]

Adding more tank specs won't make there be more tanks that are willing to endure LFR.

[Normie]

like every other decent tank, we've moved up to flex and normal mode.

i don't think making 8 out of 11 classes being able to tank is a good idea, then all of a sudden you feel like your class is totally gimped if you're 3 of the classes that can't tank.

Well, the reason many people role "pures" is so that their guild can't make them do something useful like heal or tank once in a while.

[Roxinius]

i usually dont mind tanking lfr but when the groups are so bad it makes tanks and healers for that matter not want to even bother once we get the base gear we want or higher then 528 theres really no point to it

[Deleted]

Two magical solutions for the complete mess of WoW nowadays:

1.- Implement NPC tanking on dungeons and raids, for God's fuckin' sake, instead waiting 45 minutes in front of your computer or flying in circles in cities. We're paying for playing, not for waiting.
So yes, my needs are the most important, I don't want to do that, I don't want to wait and I must get everything.

This is exactly the kind of player that tanks want to avoid by avoiding LFR.

[Barnabas]

All right my friends, I'm sure some of you will say that everything is fine, roll a tank, or make some other highly useful remark, but I came here to share my thoughts on what I believe should be Blizzard's priority #1 problem to solve. And no, it's not adding more vanity pets or mounts to the game.

I've spent 45 mins in LFR queue last night as DPS. Then I got in, just to see a demoralized raid with 1 tank and a bunch of peeps jumping around on their mounts, one of whom was sharing a heart-breaking story about how he had to save 75k to buy an engineering rocket, and how he bought it in the end. Touching, truly.

I've played this game for many years and I'm a big fan of Blizzard-drug, generally.

I have 5 tanks and a bunch of other chars I like to casually play; I'm not a hardcore raider, in case it matters. I like LFR, when it's playable. I don't listen to idiots too much and zone out, doing my job, which I do very well.

Understand that solving tanks problem is easier said than done (please save your breath trying to explain it to me, I'm with you on this one), but I still believe that Blizzard needs to:

1. Allow warlocks to tank. They've given us a glyph, we are half-way there.
2. Allow shamans to tank. They've given us shield and Rockbiter, we are half-way there.
3. Allow hunters to tank. Probably a bit harder due to indirect pet control, but would be awesome.

The only way to "solve the problem" is generate more interest for people to tank. That can be achieved through letting us explore one of our old dusty classes in a new capacity.

I also believe the above would be easier to do for Blizz than invent a completely new class, and smarter in terms of player-base retention than ignoring the problem fully.

Discuss if you want, I'm going to grab a coffee.

What happens if your changes made it through but those classes still queue as dps? As a tank you can't afk in lfr and not so much as a healer. As a dps you can safely afk. The problem in LFR is that a lot of groups don't make the enrage timer. That is because the dps are half asleep at the wheel. I don't see the reason in putting those players that choose dps role to afk would want to queue as a tank?

[Deleted]

Like I've said before, I don't see tanks get yelled at often, and if they do, it's because they fucked up something REALLY basic.
All the complaints from tanks on MMOC, I can't help but think to myself: It's probably because you're bad.
It's just disrespectful to good tanks who earn their reputation as good tanks when people who think "being a tank" automatically entitles them to things or makes them "leaders." Very seldom have I ever seen a tank "leading" an LFR apart from pulling mobs.
A note to good tanks: you have earned the respect you get, and you deserve it. Thank you for being good tanks.

A note to the rest of you: stop complaining, take some responsibility for your role, take some pride in yourself and get better. Stop pointing fingers at everyone around you, the job isn't that hard, and in LFR a trained monkey could do it. Fuck.

This just highlights how tanks are held to account and to a higher standard more than the other two group roles. More pressure for mostly the same reward, less incentive to tank.

[Blachshma]

As a tank, I can't be happier I get to ignore LFR altogether this patch. In past patches I needed LFR for the Legendary questline, but now, good riddance, and I won't ever be coming back unless I have to or unless Blizzard implements some huge rewards for tankers in LFR. A tank in LFR has to be focused 100% of the time, while everyone else can afk, and its really, really boring. The wipes of stupid dpsers who can't (or won't) move out of bad stuff is even more discouraging. LFR is what I consider bad content. Whoever wants to see the real bosses should go normal/heroic.

[lsmf5]

As a tank in LFR I've got more s**t for telling someone how to follow the tactics and to improve their dps more than anything. I've met dps doing 11k because 'they're just here to have fun'. Any dungeon I tank, even with a fresh rolled 90, sometimes even 85-90, if they are not reforged for their hit and/or exp caps and are doing low dps I will pull them straight up on it. If I'm healing I straight away tell people I will not heal you if you stay standing in shit. I don't like being the a******e but frankly when Blizzard don't enforce this or implement a system to improve on it, then there is a problem. For one other suggestion, they should make reforging completely free, I've met at least 50 players recently who have said they haven't reforged as it costs money and they don't want to spend money on gear they will replace soon.

What is worrying is how many people seem deluded regarding their own time. The more dps on a boss (taking into account following mechanics) the faster that boss will die.

What I would suggest is the implementation of an afk tag on the raid group. The average lfr fight goes on for 7-10 mins. If an individual is afk for more than one minute, possibly 2 in case of sudden dc while a fight is in progress, and they are in the boss area (some people get locked out), they are automatically kicked, no warning, nothing.

Another thing that grinds my gears, is how blizzard does not make it clear to players that for them to tank or dps well they need to be hitting their hit and exp caps or at least be close to them. While there are plenty of fan sites, sadly some players are literally just too ignorant to do anything unless Blizzard tells them straight, in game to do it.

I have personally only done one lfr this patch, which was part one SoO, I did one boss of part 3 for boss loot, nothing more. I used to only run lfr because I had to for legendary, now I have no motivation, primarily because of the level of play within. If a tank screws up they will be jumped on, if a healer screws up they will be jumped on, if a dps buggers up, they get nothing back on them. They just blame the healer for not keeping them up.

Blizzard should start being more interactive with improving it's player bases' skill and then there will be less problems.

[Condemner]

Problem isn't the amount of classes that can tank i think, problem is the amount of people who want to play tanks.

Its hard to solve that. We already have Monks, DK's, Paladins, Warriors and Druids and 2 specs.

What they could do is make a ranged/caster tank of some sort to make it more diverse. I could see a hunter or a lock tanking with their pet with all threat they do redirect to their pets in some way or the glyphed lock type.

[Deleted]

I still take my 553+ ilevel main to tank LFR as I think it's a good way of learning the fights in advance of trying them on normal; to get OS gear; and to get trinkets/tier. However, my ilevel means I can shrug off a lot of the boss damage and player abuse. The other night I was called the worst tank in WoW for BS reasons (e.g. not taunt swapping with a tank who would immediately taunt back) but few pugs will kick a 553+ geared tank who is 3rd on damage, so I was aggrieved but secure.

However, I am reluctant to bring in my four 496+ ilevel alt tanks, as they are more likely to go face up if things go south and because if they did, I fear a lot of abuse or kicks from players. And if they were better geared, I'd be more likely to go flex with them given the limited time available.

I suspect GC is right - what we are seeing now is the normal process of rough initial learning of new fights but also the effect of flex on the willingness of geared tanks to do lfr. I'm not sure what the solution is - maybe giving tanks a chance of higher ilevel gear in LFR; maybe giving them their own "determination" type buff in an advance of wipes, so that a 496 ilevel tank has the stats of a 522 geared one.

I may still take my tank alts in LFR - the quality of some existing tanks is just so low[1], I think a competent if not well geared tank might be tolerated by LFR players. However, I'll probably wait a bit so that most people have learnt the tactics and started to outgear the minimum requirements. For now, only my healer alt sees LFR (like the tank, no queue time but unlike the tank, no risk of being singled out for abuse).

[1] Lack of gems/enchants/reforges bugs me; spamming taunt annoys me even more.

[MadBloke101]

If you have a Character that can tank but ques as DPS, then you are part of the problem. It's not that the role doesn't exist, it's just people not wanting to play it.

That is a little OTT - people have choice, which is a good thing. People also know how toxic LFR is, common sense would indicate if you have to do something toxic for whatever reason, picking a path that reduces the amount of rubbish you have to contend with is a wise move.

back on topic - if your guild or group of friends does flex or greater and you are a main spec tank you simply do not need to go anywhere near LFR again - this is a good thing.

I am hopeful that Blizz takes this onboard and does something clever with it.

[PowerOfTwo]

edit: they actually added a new tank class.. monks. no real time decrease was felt. my guess, its not a desirable role no matter how many classes can tank. change the way the players treat everybody and our times might go down.

Yes and maybe after that we can get around to harnessing the power of the sun and inventing warp travell.

On more serious note, number of classes don't realy matter, more than 50% of available classes can tank and/or heal. Personaly im surprised we have a tank and not a healing shortage. Tanking isnt that hard realy , basicaly hit stuff and use you're active mitigation. I can't imagine playing a healer without mods tho.....

This is going to sound wierd tho but i don't WANT them to "fix" the tanking problem. If you'r specific problem is que times 7/11 classes can have a spec with short ques, the options are there for you to take. The only way i see the fix comming is basicaly doing... some form of buffs / nerfs whereby tanking becomes purely auto pilot, to the point where you CANNOT fail at it (and thus not be yelled at wich i assume is what drives most ppl to not tank). And i'd rather a handfull or pure dps'rs cry than have that happen.

[Louis CK]

This just highlights how tanks are held to account and to a higher standard more than the other two group roles. More pressure for mostly the same reward, less incentive to tank.

How? Lmao. Tank fucks up, someone yells at him. DPS fuck up, he gets kicked immediately.

I gotta get out of this thread.

[Snorkles]

How? Lmao. Tank fucks up, someone yells at him. DPS fuck up, he gets kicked immediately.

I gotta get out of this thread.

In every LFR I've done this is simply not the case.

[Deleted]

In every LFR I've done this is simply not the case.

I agree. The only dps I can guarantee to get kicked are those who have been afk through the fight and won't accept a rez. Or those who have DC'd. Simply being afk won't get them kicked - I'll be told to start the fight without them. That is how important they are.

[Vasilisa]

I wouldn't mind more people tanking. Sometimes I'm not 'in the mood' for tanking lfr/dungeon and I wouldn't mind a shorter queue. I feel really sorry for those who have to wait 40 mins for lfr

Sadly the only way (it helped a bit during wotlk but apparently its not helping nowadays) is to "bribe" tanks/healers (satchel). I don't like that tbf but I doubt that anything else will change people mentality regarding tanking.

A lot of people are afraid to tank. From my perspective (tank since tbc) tanking is the easiest of job during raid, dpsing is the worst. Might have been different in lfr as I have to admit I rarely do that. I prefer dungeons much more. Maybe being able to queue for specific boss would help? Or rewarding for each boss (vp?) instead of the whole wing?

I'm not sure. But current situation is frustrating for majority (dps) or playerbase and that's not good.

[khalltusk]

Did LFR over the weekend, got the DK through all 3 wings with no problems. 1st time tanking the underhold went smoothly (spoils we wiped but that was due to low dps on the other side my side went fine )

Went on the healer got into Thok on last wing when I really wanted a fresh run. Sure enough someones flaming new tank comes in gets some mild abuse leaves.

Good old LFR :/

[judgementofantonidas]

lies!
I remember when MSV got out in lfr the queues for tanks were awful, I got a 2h plus one once, it got better as it progressed into terrace, with ToT really being the first time I started noticing instant queues

and like people said, the reason tanks don't want to do lfr is that because of 25 people the 2 tanks are the only ones that have to be there and stay semi focused the whole time, plus any mistake they do is quickly noticeable and usually leads to worse consequences than a dps or healers fucking up

MSV LFR. ONE tank has to be there and stay focused.

[Ashardis]

How? Lmao. Tank fucks up, someone yells at him. DPS fuck up, he gets kicked immediately.

I gotta get out of this thread.

my arse they do :-/
I lfr on at least 7 of my 11 90s (my lowest is 490ilvl) as often as possible every week

Ive seen proportionately MORE dps afking, than healers. I hate both equally, and in my eyes ANY afker deserves to be kicked.
No matter how I bring it to the attention of the raid, they seem to somehow be protected.
either by constant pulls "cant kick during/after combat"
leaving rolls on greens to slowly time out "cant kick during loot roll"
or by "who gives a shit, its only lfr"
Since 5.4 of all the afkers ive encountered, MORE of them out-geared the content, than didn't, ei: legendary questers.

Out of 24 vote kickers, its far too fucking hard to find 3 others to vote kick the afkers.
you find a bad/new/undergeared tank, and they're gone as soon timers allow it.

Maybe its a battlegroup/zone thing, who knows.

But with azjol-nerub EU and the linked servers we lfr, tanks get kicked an awful lot faster and more frequently than afk/shit/slacking dps and healers.
Mistakes from the role with the most responsibility to the fight outcome, are tolerated alot less than from the rest of the group.
Prime example: Hunter bitching about add aggro, but God forbid they actually break their dps rotation to pop a misdirect.....

Its ironic that dps and healers complain of a lack of competent/willing tanks, are in my opinion, the cause of the very problem they're whingeing about