Problematic raider. Need advice bad.

[Belloc]

Your solutions are:

1) Kick him
2) Find a new guild
3) Give up your officer position and predict, to the GM, what you think will happen (and, when it does, rub it in)
4) Treat him like shit until he quits

[sugarlily]

Good advice so far, you have a few options.

If you are still deciding, on the fence or want even more advice, this WoW site is for Raid & Guild Leadership & has EXCELLENT helpful advice from long-time WoW players, raiders, raid leaders, guild leaders & more.

Best of luck to you & your Guild : )


Also ~
When ppl show you who they are, believe them the 1st time.

Tolerated behavior doesn't change.

We teach ppl how to treat us.

We get what we settle for.

[Drummerboy]

He sounds like he's in the wrong guild.

Exactly and I don't see that as a negative statement on him either, more so the guild. Obviously their skin is a little to thin to handle his sense of humor. Point is I read those examples you made and I busted out laughing thinking how he's similar to my verbally abusive raid team. The difference is we can handle it and it adds a little spice and often makes us laugh at each other's expense. It's part of the game.

[eschatological]

I believe in loyalty to guilds. I've had 3 guilds in 8 years of WoW, but the 2nd one I had to quit because of a toxic personality who bullied his way into raid lead. He was a teenager in Ulduar and one of our top DPS, but as soon as he became an officer, he would rage at the drop of a hat. Like literally for no reason. He would call out people for mistakes while LEARNING on progression (and we were pretty good, so it wasn't like it was mistakes that held us back from anything) when he couldn't even properly line up his burst for wind platform on H-Conclave, or soak orbs right in H-V&T (obviously he was a rogue). At 20 while we were in Firelands, he was the most obnoxious idiot I'd ever met, and so I decided work was more important, quit for a few months, then joined an adult raiding guild that raided weekends. Ultimately, you have to make these kind of choices. Ensconced idiots are the worst kind of idiots.

[kamuimac]

I believe in loyalty to guilds. I've had 3 guilds in 8 years of WoW, but the 2nd one I had to quit because of a toxic personality who bullied his way into raid lead. He was a teenager in Ulduar and one of our top DPS, but as soon as he became an officer, he would rage at the drop of a hat. Like literally for no reason. He would call out people for mistakes while LEARNING on progression (and we were pretty good, so it wasn't like it was mistakes that held us back from anything) when he couldn't even properly line up his burst for wind platform on H-Conclave, or soak orbs right in H-V&T (obviously he was a rogue). At 20 while we were in Firelands, he was the most obnoxious idiot I'd ever met, and so I decided work was more important, quit for a few months, then joined an adult raiding guild that raided weekends. Ultimately, you have to make these kind of choices. Ensconced idiots are the worst kind of idiots.

loyality is important ofc but if the gm and other officers in OPs guild clearly dont give a f*** about such disruptive behaviour in guild why spend time in there when u have to pay for something which brings u nothing else then frustration. i know people are osmetimes scared about leaving guild especially if they had established a position there but sometimes its just not worth it - staying sane and happy is more important then haveing a position and sure raid spot -_-

[royals]

I so wish I could do that. Im the only officer that actually bothers to do anything for the guild. The gm shows up to raid, then logs off. Still doesn't have his legendary meta or properly researched his class changes. Most people who have been here for awhile and know him seem to be able to tolerate him. Its just new recruits that leave quickly due to him. Why, idk.

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Ok, example. He says things like "maybe if you pay attention or heal, we will actually get things killed". Or I for example say I figured out something and he says 'Imagine that, avoid the mechanic that hurts you helps keep you alive". Those types of comments.

This sounds like you are putting in more effort for a guild than the GM or any officers while getting pushback from "veteran" raiders who aren't worth anything. I would say you yourself needs to clean shop or get out. You have a decent resume of nomal experience thus far and can get in a similar experienced guild easily. You also have officer and recruiting experience. All in all sounds like you give a crap a lot more than anyone else and your return on investment is nothing but stress. Get out and remember that you are supposed to have FUN while playing a game. If its not fun then you are in the wrong spot.

I'm all for silly sarcasm, but if this guy just wants to troll you (an officer) in front of the rest of the raid, then you need to show your strong hand and boot him from the raid infront of everyone else. Whats the worst that is going to happen? Maybe he gquits himself /gaspohnoes!

[Greylan]

This guy sounds like a poison pill, I've seen them in several guilds.

I had a good friend once tell me I was passive aggressive (and he was right) and ever since then I've confronted problems like that straight on. Next time he's giving attitude on vent you should just come out and say what you're thinking, drama be damned; it's a whole lot easier than letting his attitude poison you for weeks on end.

If that doesn't work out, my guild, also 10/14, is in desperate need of a tank! Skywall Alliance.

[Eleccybubb]

Like everyone else says kick the asshole out and fuck whatever anyone says

[Deleted]

Well in my opinion:
1) If you want to stay in your guild
2) and you've tried to talk about this with him
3) what does the guildleader say and who is it anyway (?)
4) and you didn't come to a solution or he doesn't listen etc.
5) I'd say kick him out.
It's not worth it keeping him if others leave because of him. Also he seems to make you worry about all of this and you seem to be quite desperate which is another thing which doesn't need to be - and it's because of him.
So easy as that: No solution for your raid - then let him go/kick him out.

[Deleted]

Ok, example. He says things like "maybe if you pay attention or heal, we will actually get things killed". Or I for example say I figured out something and he says 'Imagine that, avoid the mechanic that hurts you helps keep you alive". Those types of comments.

Judging by those examples, sounds more like your recruits are ultra sensitive to ironic criticism.

[Meillquei]

I was in a similar situation at the beginning of MOP. My group had this one mage who was disruptive to our raid group. She showed up drunk every raid and proceeded to rage about how her life and job sucked. Listening to this raid after raid was just sucking the fun out of raiding. Our GM and raid leader decided it was time for her to go.

OP, you should do what makes you happy. WOW is a game, and is meant to be fun and enjoyable. It sounds to me like you are not having fun. If that was me, I would do one of the following things:
-Have an officer meeting and make this raider the topic of discussion. From your post, it sounds like you are all good raiders. If this person's behavior is disruptive and turning good players away, then perhaps it is time for him to go.
-Leave the guild yourself. At 10/14N, you are progressed enough where lots of good guilds would love to have you.
-Take another break from the game. If anyone asks why, tell them you needed time to cool your head or something.
-Start your own raiding guild. You already have leadership experience since you are an officer, so this shouldn't be too hard to do I would imagine. Ask any raiders in your current group if they would be willing to help you with this.

Well I hope this helps and best of luck to you.

[lokinrond713]

not worth it imo but....what exactly is he doing that ppl dont like?

[Deleted]

Take a serious talk with your GM. He must also be seeing the same thing and if he doesnt he's not a very good GM.
It also sounds like you are actaully the only person who contributes ANYTHING to the guild and if this is true and you don't like how things are, you might have to consider finding a new guild with more dedicated players. Good luck with solving this issue

[Nero Duskwind]

Im not sure if I would even be allowed to boot him. Hes our top dps, and has been in the guild since it was created in vanilla. My hands are literally tied in that respect.

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Hes a dps. He complains if we ask him to tank.

It doesn't matter how good his DPS or how long his tenure is in the guild. If he has a toxic attitude that is hamstringing your recruitment efforts, you need to kick his ass out. It's not like his DPS is godlike and can carry your crew through the final 4 bosses of SoO.

[Sithalos]

Boot him. Toxicity and drama have no place in a good raiding guild.

[Nero Duskwind]

He is a bit of a prick. Not even sarcastic about it. He is straight up blunt, and a bit high and mighty about it like it was soo obvious to him. Just the other day we had a new recruit who was learning the fights. Two attempts in he says "Im not explaining it anymore. Either figure it out or watch a video. You should know this". It was a fight we had only killed the week earlier for the first time.

With all due respect to your guild's accomplishments, he's running with 10/14 NM SoO crew that's struggling to maintain its raiding core and he and needs to dial back the elitist attitude. He's not running with firmly established some upper echelon guild that's at least halfway through Heroic Mode already and, judging by the fact that he's been in your guild this long, I highly doubt he has the DPS or personality chops to cut it in such a guild to begin with.

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Looks like your raiders cant tolerate critics. You got two options: let it go and see what happens - basically tell him that you think that he's the reason and you cant do anything for the guild because of him OR just leave right away. By the looks of the situation that you described you dont have much to lose.

Criticism is fine as long as it's constructive. If he's going to spew his critiques in a snide and condescending manner, can you honestly blame the recruits for leaving as quickly as they join?

[Haywire5714]

What I don't understand is why you are making this thread now. You've been raiding with this guy for going on 3 tiers of content now, and you decided to make this forum post now ... wtf?

I can't see the part where the solution is not obvious.

This is pretty much my response; this shouldn't even be a question. If you can't kick him out of the guild you leave it and find a new guild (or cancel your wow sub for whatever reason). If he asks why you left then you tell him; just give him the facts like you did in this thread. The amount of dps he does is irrelevant I don't even know why you mentioned that, and in my opinion the amount of time he's been in the guild doesn't matter either.

[Normie]

The aggressive, contentious tone that (many) people adopt on the Internet, and in comedy skits, isn't suitable for actual person to person voice communication. That's your "problem" raider's problem. He doesn't understand that sarcasm and condescension aren't acceptable. He may not even understand when he's being sarcastic or condescending.

But having to put up with someone who is boorish and unpleasant is not what most people call "fun," and "fun" is what most people are looking for in a game, and WoW is a game.

That is why your recruits are leaving and will continue to leave. The only option for you other than leaving the guild is to mute the problem raider in vent, perhaps indefinitely.

[PowerOfTwo]

i realy don't see the problem and the thread smells of trolling / half-story. Then again i personaly use sarcasm as a go to response when trying to educate others, because realy you have 3 options right? the whole motherly "dont worry baby , you made a mistake im SURE you'll do better next time" wich i can't stand, straight up yelling and cursing wich makes you look twitchy and alot of the times just makes you look like you're talking out your ass and providing no real info, and the kinda chain jerk sarcasm that while to some REALY sensitive types may be offensive , as long as you mix in some humor with information is fine.

I mean op at one point gives an example along the lines of "no shit!, if you don't stand in fire you don't die, omfg wait i need to write this down" but the alternative would maybe be "what the fuckedup retardedness are you doing you cunt?! don't stand in fire!" or you know.... "damn poor x, stood in the fire again, ow well im sure hes figured out hes not suposed to do that". The 2nd will just provoke a stouborn / deffensive attitude where ppl migth stop paying atention / doing stuff out of spite and the third isn't realy a way to whip raiders into shape.

[Itisamuh]

The answer should have been obvious long ago. Simply kick him, no one player is worth all that. If the guild refuses to kick him, find a new one.