View Poll Results: Thoughts?

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  • Prefer my characters getting weaker

    336 35.41%
  • Doesn't matter either way

    326 34.35%
  • Prefer my characters getting stronger

    287 30.24%
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  1. #721
    Skimming through the thread yields many people with similar, rational opinions of my own.
    100 bilions flies use to eat shit ... they are so many ... they can't be wrong ...


    Oh it will? Please show me the factual information from Blizzard where we are going to suddenly not be able to do things we could before.
    The graphic made by Blizzard showing the transformation of exponential progression in a liniar one .
    Also Ghostcrawler post , recognizing that we might need buffs to keep being able to solo what we were able to solo without buffs before the squish.
    Have been posted thousands of times on these forums.
    Last edited by vandam; 2013-10-18 at 07:41 PM.

  2. #722
    Mechagnome Vladilena's Avatar
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    I can't quite put my finger on why, but I just don't like the McLarge numbers at all. I thought it was... acceptable in Cataclysm, but the numbers have doubled again. Like others have sad, I'm all for a squish, as long as I can still solo older content for transmog and achievements.
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  3. #723
    Banned Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Also Ghostcrawler post , recognizing that we might need buffs to keep being able to solo what we were able to solo without buffs before the squish.
    Have been posted thousands of times on these forums.
    Yes...and? If they provide a buff for us to balance out our power...then...wait for it....

    We're just as powerful as we were before. *gasp* Power is relative. This isn't a real world with applicable physics to determine any particular action. It's a virtual world where power is determined by the actions in reference to the world it is in. If I can kill the same things I can today, regardless of what method of programming gets me there, nothing has changed.

    A visual number isn't reailty, it's just a picture for your eyes. If the ratio is the same it's the same regardless. Much like 1/4 is the same thing as 1Million/4Million is the same thing as 0.25 is the same thing as 25%. It's like common sense has been traded in favor of banners declaring the sky falling.

    Edit:
    You also completely misrepresented the reason I posted the statement about other opinions. It wasn't some pathetic attempt to validate my own opinion as it was a direct response to being told I need to read 37 pages of a thread of people bickering in what I perceive is an allusion to a mystical truth contained therein. (favoring the posters opinion of course)

    But do continue.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2013-10-18 at 07:48 PM.

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    The graphic made by Blizzard showing the transformation of exponential progression in a liniar one .
    Also Ghostcrawler post , recognizing that we might need buffs to keep being able to solo what we were able to solo without buffs before the squish.
    Have been posted thousands of times on these forums.
    Hi. You are wrong. Nothing will affect our ability to solo previous content. The stat squish is entirely hardware and aesthetically driven and I completely understand it and grasp the concept. You mistakenly believe it will affect your character and weaken it. The numbers will be different but your power will be exactly the same. It's purely aesthetic.

    Ghostcrawler: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...51031138893824

    RAC1391 ‏@RAC1391
    @Ghostcrawler @Nasenbluten23 I now have to find 24 other people to do BT/DS/BWL/ICC and follow mechanics just for pets and mog gear? no ty!

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @RAC1391 @Nasenbluten23 I have said several times that item squish would not affect the ability to solo old content. That's not the intent.

    And: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...09226732859394

    Dreawyn ‏@Dreawyn
    @Ghostcrawler In case of an item squish, will relative power of players stay the same in terms of soloing old content?

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @Dreawyn
    Yes. We don't want players to reject the squish for fear of losing the ability to solo old content.
    Last edited by Congelatore; 2013-10-18 at 07:52 PM.

  5. #725
    A visual number isn't reailty, it's just a picture for your eyes. If the ratio is the same it's the same regardless. Much like 1/4 is the same thing as 1Million/4Million is the same thing as 0.25 is the same thing as 25%. It's like common sense has been traded in favor of banners declaring the sky falling.
    The ration won't be the same . That solution where the ration stay the same is MEGADAMAGE. The Squish is other one . Where you are nerfed worst then the world.

    If they provide a buff for us to balance out our power...then...wait for it....

    We're just as powerful as we were before.
    HE said the buffs will be in dungeons . When he was asked how he will compensate the nerf for the outer world he didn't responded.

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    The ration won't be the same . That solution where the ration stay the same is MEGADAMAGE. The Squish is other one . Where you are nerfed worst then the world.
    I believe my post above effectively shows how you are entirely wrong and have misunderstood what the item squish is. Don't take my word for it, take Lead Systems Designer Greg Street's word:
    Quote Originally Posted by Congelatore View Post
    Hi. You are wrong. Nothing will affect our ability to solo previous content. The stat squish is entirely hardware and aesthetically driven and I completely understand it and grasp the concept. You mistakenly believe it will affect your character and weaken it. The numbers will be different but your power will be exactly the same. It's purely aesthetic.

    Ghostcrawler: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...51031138893824

    RAC1391 ‏@RAC1391
    @Ghostcrawler @Nasenbluten23 I now have to find 24 other people to do BT/DS/BWL/ICC and follow mechanics just for pets and mog gear? no ty!

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @RAC1391 @Nasenbluten23 I have said several times that item squish would not affect the ability to solo old content. That's not the intent.

    And: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...09226732859394

    Dreawyn ‏@Dreawyn
    @Ghostcrawler In case of an item squish, will relative power of players stay the same in terms of soloing old content?

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @Dreawyn
    Yes. We don't want players to reject the squish for fear of losing the ability to solo old content.
    Last edited by Congelatore; 2013-10-18 at 08:03 PM.

  7. #727
    Banned Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Where you are nerfed worst then the world.
    You know they're going to scale the world as well right? It's not like people are going to magically be unable to kill mobs or level characters. This sort of thinking is like end of the world apocalypse levels of knee jerking. Sorry, it's likely not even going to be noticeable.

    Regardless of what the math turns out when the use a new set of algorithms for the world, there's nothing stopping them from slapping specific buffs (which don't even need to be displayed to function) in order to account for any differences. It's like people don't understand they program using an in house engine and have the capability to solve problems stemming from something so large and game altering.

  8. #728
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrayFox View Post
    I think I've seen this response like a billion times, and in the exact wording too! STOP POSTING THE SAME THING SIR.
    As long as it doesn't affect my ability to solo older content with ease I'm not overly bothered either way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    The ration won't be the same . That solution where the ration stay the same is MEGADAMAGE. The Squish is other one . Where you are nerfed worst then the world.

    ratio, not ration. (i get you are not a native speaker, i am just making a friendly correction)

    Squish does exclude the the possibility that the ratios of [Player DPS to Mob Health] and [Player Health to the Mob DPS] remain virtually the same as they are now. You are only assuming that it excludes that possibility, but you have no basis to make that assumption yet.

    Certainly not until we have seen what Blizzard intends to actually do mechanically to alter the game.
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2013-10-18 at 08:12 PM.
    .


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  9. #729
    Quote Originally Posted by Congelatore View Post
    I believe my post above effectively shows how you are entirely wrong and have misunderstood what the item squish is. Don't take my word for it, take Lead Systems Designer Greg Street's word:
    You have just proven that you don't know what you're talking about and haven't read what GC posted very well. If the item squish will not affect my ability to do anything then they wouldn't need to implement a buff instances to counter it so clearly even Blizz knows it will affect things. Second, the instance buff does nothing for the world. Third, the graph provided by GC clearly shows that you are just wrong on all points.

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  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Oh yes it does , and the original poster understand it .

    You , on the other hand , you have absolutely no ideea what a squish is .

    You just keep all coming and explaining how the MEGADAMAGE solution won't change anything.
    The MEGADAMAGE don't change anything, but the SQUISH will make you weaker.

    The MEGADAMAGE is not SQUISH guys . Cuting the same % from everything is Megadamage solution not squish.
    You're high.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    Yes...and? If they provide a buff for us to balance out our power...then...wait for it....

    We're just as powerful as we were before. *gasp* Power is relative. This isn't a real world with applicable physics to determine any particular action. It's a virtual world where power is determined by the actions in reference to the world it is in. If I can kill the same things I can today, regardless of what method of programming gets me there, nothing has changed.

    A visual number isn't reailty, it's just a picture for your eyes. If the ratio is the same it's the same regardless. Much like 1/4 is the same thing as 1Million/4Million is the same thing as 0.25 is the same thing as 25%. It's like common sense has been traded in favor of banners declaring the sky falling.

    Edit:
    You also completely misrepresented the reason I posted the statement about other opinions. It wasn't some pathetic attempt to validate my own opinion as it was a direct response to being told I need to read 37 pages of a thread of people bickering in what I perceive is an allusion to a mystical truth contained therein. (favoring the posters opinion of course)

    But do continue.
    ^This. /Thread

  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by mofi View Post
    not the slightest bit considering that about 7 years have passed since then. being several times more powerful than years ago in a fantasy game is perfectly fine for me
    We're not talking about several times more powerful. We're talking about 63 DPS -> 7600 dps. That's a 12,000% increase. Maybe I'm mincing words, but "several" does not apply here. In any case, being more powerful is illusory. Sure you can steamroll level 60 mobs now, but who cares? Fighting mobs your level, you are just as powerful as before, no more, no less (this is arguable I suppose, but not by a huge margin).
    Ret Paladin
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  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by NightZero88 View Post
    You have just proven that you don't know what you're talking about and haven't read what GC posted very well. If the item squish will not affect my ability to do anything then they wouldn't need to implement a buff instances to counter it so clearly even Blizz knows it will affect things. Second, the instance buff does nothing for the world. Third, the graph provided by GC clearly shows that you are just wrong on all points.
    I have every bit of confidence that you are smart enough to know that the item squish involves everything, including the outer world. The "dungeon buff" you keep referring to has never been fully explained. The closest thing to it has merely been the following tweets:

    Ghostcrawler: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...76289757319170

    Three ‏@3 isTwoPlusOne
    @Ghostcrawler saw a lot of squish comments. Dont like it bc 1: Solo old stuff, 2: feeling of progression. I hated Oblivion bc of that.

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @3isTwoPlusOne Don't focus on soloing old stuff. We'd rather get feedback on the squish itself, not other ramifications that we can solve.

    And: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...53330179534850

    Chirs Kays ‏@Seraphem7
    @Ghostcrawler But can you nerf every player without in anyway effecting soloing low level content? Keep everything the same but the numbers?

    Greg Street
    ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @Seraphem7 "If player enters old instance, then buff all their stats."

    All this means is they will buff your stats, if needed, to solo dungeons. How you read anything more into this is beyond me.

    Additionally, the graph you keep referring was an example, from two years ago, which merely represents the problem. In that same post, from two years ago, he also said the following: "In other words, your Fireball will still do the same percentage damage to a player or a creature that it does today, but the number would be smaller." Notice how he didn't say anything about the item squish affecting only dungeons. See http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585. It will apply to everything.

    I have quoted him directly from the past couple of months discussing how the item squish will happen:

    1) Power will remain the same; and
    Example: Your Fireball hits Wild Bore for 50,000 fire damage and takes away 50,000 of the Wild Bore's 100,000 health. After an item squish of everything divided by 10 (just an example), your Fireball will hit Wild Bore for 5,000 fire damage and takes away 5,000 of the Wild Bore's 10,000 health. Everything is the same, the numbers are just smaller.
    2) You can still solo old content (dungeons, raids, Goldshire, Northrend, you name it) just the same.

    I'll post his words again just so it sinks in:

    Quote Originally Posted by Congelatore View Post
    Ghostcrawler: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...51031138893824

    RAC1391 ‏@RAC1391
    @Ghostcrawler @Nasenbluten23 I now have to find 24 other people to do BT/DS/BWL/ICC and follow mechanics just for pets and mog gear? no ty!

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @RAC1391 @Nasenbluten23 I have said several times that item squish would not affect the ability to solo old content. That's not the intent.

    And: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...09226732859394

    Dreawyn ‏@Dreawyn
    @Ghostcrawler In case of an item squish, will relative power of players stay the same in terms of soloing old content?

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @Dreawyn
    Yes. We don't want players to reject the squish for fear of losing the ability to solo old content.
    Last edited by Congelatore; 2013-10-18 at 09:04 PM.

  13. #733
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    using a back-of-the-envelope math:

    if it takes you 5 minutes to solo a certain old boss, and each time the old boss hits you with its special attack it takes away 10% of your what your current total health is in the gear you have; the goal that the Blizzard dev team is working towards is that after the squish it will still take you about 5 minutes (+/-) to kill the old boss and the old boss' special attack will still hurt for about 10% (+/-) of whatever you current total health will be in the gear you have.

    We may not all have the same confidence that blizzard can achieve this goal, but they know and we know that is the goal to be achieved.

    Since blizzard has not shown us any example what the squish would look like, WE CANNOT EVALUATE AND WE CANNOT SPECULATEwhether or not they can or have accomplish(ed) this goal.
    .


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  14. #734
    the stat progression each expansion is weird, 1.5x 5x 3x 10x of last expansions tier, so first tier next expansion could have 10813/14418 strength and that's just ridiculous.

    i would prefer if they reworked it to a smoother progression such as (vanilla)30 str, (bc)60 str (wrath)120 str, (cata)240 str

  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    This and more.

    Look, the larger numbers are just out of hand. I miss the aesthetic joy of when my power upgraded it was a tangible increases, from 22k on a fireball to 23k. Now the numbers are so large it barely feels relevant any more.

    The stat squish will be a relief, reducing hundreds of thousands to more manageable figures.
    I started feeling this way pretty early in Cata. Once it got to the point where every stat on every piece of gear was in triple digits, I just kind of stopped paying attention to the numbers and just put on the next piece of gear that was supposedly BiS. Never really felt stronger or faster. Just ended up stacking spirit (hpriest), and that finally felt like an improvement.

  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgetjones View Post
    I started feeling this way pretty early in Cata. Once it got to the point where every stat on every piece of gear was in triple digits, I just kind of stopped paying attention to the numbers and just put on the next piece of gear that was supposedly BiS. Never really felt stronger or faster. Just ended up stacking spirit (hpriest), and that finally felt like an improvement.
    I started playing in Cata, but noticed the jump as early as I reached TBC content.

    I mean, my gear would give me +8 to some stat at level 60, and suddenly I was getting items with +15 (almost double!). Then I went to Stormwind and took a look at level 85 gear and went "oh my" when I saw all the +300 items. The difference was huge.

    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Also Ghostcrawler post , recognizing that we might need buffs to keep being able to solo what we were able to solo without buffs before the squish.
    Have been posted thousands of times on these forums.
    That tweet from GC was more a "we can make soloing content work" more than "that's how we will make soloing content work". IMO, I don't think a buff will be necessary, but I do believe soloing will become somewhat more of a challenge (i.e.: you won't just ROFLSTOMP everything so easily, some fight may require you to pop CDs or avoid some damage).
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2013-10-18 at 09:59 PM.

  17. #737
    Current numbers make my eyes bleed.

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