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  1. #21
    I may be wrong, but I think a lot of people are missing the point.
    I think what OP is trying to ask is that the if the fights weren't changed to be 'easier' for LFR, but LFR was there just to go, oh hey, ima que for H LK - you'd be in a group of randoms as opposed to an organized guild group.
    You'd just be in a pug, as with LFR now, only the mechanics haven't changed or nothing has been nerfed.
    And yes, a lot of them would still be downed.
    At least first wing of ICC
    Putricide hardly.
    BQL maybe.
    Just to name a few.

  2. #22
    High Overlord Lalicat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Raiding back in the day was a special snowflake circle jerk pretty much.

    You had to spend hours doing the attunement and blowing sunshine up the guild leaders ass, and then once you're in, the mechanics were absurdly simple when compared to now.
    I agree with you, for the most part. Mechanics in most cases were simpler. Some were simple, but required more coordination simply because healers couldn't just heal through avoidable damage as easily as they can now. Resistance checks were...interesting, to say the least. I am really looking forward to flex (my first flex tonight!) because there's no more "building reputation" with the right people, or having to spend weeks getting DKP to spend on one item that may or may not be handed to you because you didn't suck up enough.

  3. #23
    Legendary! Gheld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lalicat View Post
    I agree with you, for the most part. Mechanics in most cases were simpler. Some were simple, but required more coordination simply because healers couldn't just heal through avoidable damage as easily as they can now. Resistance checks were...interesting, to say the least. I am really looking forward to flex (my first flex tonight!) because there's no more "building reputation" with the right people, or having to spend weeks getting DKP to spend on one item that may or may not be handed to you because you didn't suck up enough.
    Yeah. I think people remember things seeming more difficult though because you pretty much had to buy your raid spot by farming gold for the guild leader "back in the day".

    So people didn't get in because of how good they were at following the raid leaders instructions.

  4. #24
    The Patient Tahuun's Avatar
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    Thaddius Would be interesting to watch.

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    You might want to add Romeo & Juliet or likewise bosses to that list. In LFR it would be a neverending fight with no enrage timer...and good luck trying to get people to stop healing/tanking to call a wipe.
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  6. #26
    Dancing inn naxx. Best fun.
    I do not hate wow. I'm just (was) very passionated about it. There is a difference. Everyone rants about thing's they think changed badly.

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  7. #27
    Legendary! Gheld's Avatar
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    I'm going to illicit a lot of hate for this statement of truth, but the real "bads" on LFR are the LFR heros that go spitting vitriol everywhere instead of realizing that some of the players there need help, and helping them.

    My main's a hunter, and I was running LFR on him, and somebody left pack on. So while one of the lfr heros was like "OMG FADTGHAKSHGJKASDHFLJKSADF PACK NOOB". I politely whispered the hunter that was responsible "pardon me, could you change aspects please." "thank you."

    Solved the problem in 1 second and without the need for any raging.

  8. #28
    High Overlord Lalicat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    I'm going to illicit a lot of hate for this statement of truth, but the real "bads" on LFR are the LFR heros that go spitting vitriol everywhere instead of realizing that some of the players there need help, and helping them. ...
    I honestly think it goes both ways.

    The problem is that veteran players become jaded, and immediately assume the offending person won't listen/change when asked (like your example) because of past bad experiences. NO one is accountable for their actions any longer, on both sides of the issue.

    It's a very negative way of looking at the situation. Stepping back for a moment and trying the helpful route does often work. And sometimes it doesn't (for whatever reason), which is where the frustration comes in.

    I'm finding lately that getting frustrated immediately is coming to the forefront where English and Brazilian realms are grouped together, simply because people literally cannot communicate. If a Brazilian player is doing something wrong, it's impossible to correct them (and vice versa), and because LFRs generally move so fast, there's no time to help or correct players that are having trouble without someone initiating a vote kick before giving them a chance.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    Don't forget that 10m was an easier difficulty than 25m during Wrath of the Lich King. It's isn't now, but it was the Flex Mode of its day. It is very unlikely that a 25m LFR group with no voice communication and no dedicated raid leader could clear 25m ICC at-level, at-gear, and with no difficulty reductions.
    clear... definitely not. But lets say that all wings were open and nothing was gated.

    Gunship...no brainer
    BQL. Not a very hard encounter but bites would probably get screwed up. really only did this on on heroic so dont know how easy it is in normal or if the DPS race is still close to enrage timer
    Dreamwalker...LFR already overkills you with healers. Probably an easy fight
    Festergut and Rotface..easily, hell they were pushovers in Heroic.

    Maly...easily LFR
    Sarth with 0D...easily with LFR

    Naxx: Everything except maybe Heigan, KT, and Thaddius

    Ulduar: Only things I see being trouble are Yogg, General, and Assembly

    ToC: everything except faction champs.

  10. #30
    Any raid before Dragon Soul.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by tiffy33 View Post
    clear... definitely not. But lets say that all wings were open and nothing was gated.

    Gunship...no brainer
    BQL. Not a very hard encounter but bites would probably get screwed up. really only did this on on heroic so dont know how easy it is in normal or if the DPS race is still close to enrage timer
    Dreamwalker...LFR already overkills you with healers. Probably an easy fight
    Festergut and Rotface..easily, hell they were pushovers in Heroic.

    Maly...easily LFR
    Sarth with 0D...easily with LFR

    Naxx: Everything except maybe Heigan, KT, and Thaddius

    Ulduar: Only things I see being trouble are Yogg, General, and Assembly

    ToC: everything except faction champs.
    If they can't clear it... then my point stands that there are some fights that will be impossible if not reduced in difficulty for and LFR group. I never said that every fight will be impossible, just that impossible fights will exist, and those fights are the reason for the justified reduced difficulty.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lalicat View Post
    healers couldn't just heal through avoidable damage as easily as they can now.
    why did they change this. Avoidable damage SHOULD kill you and healers should not be designed to heal through it. Healers shouldnt be crutches that bads can lean on. Its one thing to miss the timing on some stuff due to not knowing fights yet. But if you just sit around standing in fire or getting cleaved then raiding isnt for you.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by tiffy33 View Post
    If LFR existed only as a tool with no dumbed down encounters, which raids would have just been brutal to try and finish? And please dont just say "All of them" Some raids were just pushovers, even in PuGs.

    Heroic Lich King
    Pre-nerf C'thun
    Yogg-0
    Prenerf M'uru
    just two first bosses in a raid that come to mind from my very limited raid experience -

    High King Maulgar,
    Razorgore

    memory waking up -
    shade of aran - flame wreath anyone?
    actually many bosses had mechanics that had to be learned or risk likely wipe or guaranteed wipes. this in turn depended on group structures that allowed for this to be taught and to be expected.

    all assumes appropriate game build (e.g. talents/dmg), level, gear, etc. but you could put 40 70's in a razorgore pug and they would still wipe.
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  14. #34
    The Patient
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    It was not a really hard fight, but Heigan would have been fun.
    - Count number of person that fail the dance and with how many person you finish the boss
    - Watch the shitstorm over recount because healers wouldn't dispel the disease that slows casting for DPS
    A boatload of fun ^^

  15. #35
    Firelands.

    Think about it, many of the fights had heavy random targeting. Where stuff would spawn and so on.

    Imagine lord Rynolith in LFR. OMFG SWITCH LEGS and he eats lava.

    Alysrazor means kiting adds properly and dancing. Ahh no. Baleroc crystal...LOL

  16. #36
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiffy33 View Post
    If LFR existed only as a tool with no dumbed down encounters, which raids would have just been brutal to try and finish? And please dont just say "All of them" Some raids were just pushovers, even in PuGs.

    Heroic Lich King
    Pre-nerf C'thun
    Yogg-0
    Prenerf M'uru
    definitely Lich King.

    WHAAAAAAAAA what are all these puddles that continually wipe the raid when we stand in them!!!??????


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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    I'm going to illicit a lot of hate for this statement of truth, but the real "bads" on LFR are the LFR heros that go spitting vitriol everywhere instead of realizing that some of the players there need help, and helping them.

    My main's a hunter, and I was running LFR on him, and somebody left pack on. So while one of the lfr heros was like "OMG FADTGHAKSHGJKASDHFLJKSADF PACK NOOB". I politely whispered the hunter that was responsible "pardon me, could you change aspects please." "thank you."

    Solved the problem in 1 second and without the need for any raging.
    This. The only people who rage are the LFR heros who offer no help and simply lambaste others. I'd prefer they not set foot in LFR and stick to their flex/normal/heroic modes. If LFR is so ridiculously simple, then you probably have "better" things to do anyway. However, if you are in a LFR, then you're there like everyone else; pick up, shut up, help out (use that knowledge of everything for good) and do your job. Like I was told when I was a kid "if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all". I get frustrated in LFR too when people ignore mechanics, yeah, totally. But, if I can't help and offer constructive advice, then I shut the hell up or leave, if it's that bad.

  18. #38
    Brewmaster Travio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Dancing inn naxx. Best fun.
    Nah - if you have a healer and a tank survive the dance, they can duo the fight at level. Used to happen to me so very often because most of raid was either a) too lazy to learn the dance or b) just didn't move on time, usually due to lag. It takes a long time, but it took only two coordinated people to do the fight, even on 25 man.

  19. #39
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maulis425 View Post
    This. The only people who rage are the LFR heros who offer no help and simply lambaste others. I'd prefer they not set foot in LFR and stick to their flex/normal/heroic modes. If LFR is so ridiculously simple, then you probably have "better" things to do anyway. However, if you are in a LFR, then you're there like everyone else; pick up, shut up, help out (use that knowledge of everything for good) and do your job. Like I was told when I was a kid "if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all". I get frustrated in LFR too when people ignore mechanics, yeah, totally. But, if I can't help and offer constructive advice, then I shut the hell up or leave, if it's that bad.

    LOL. LFR Heroes are the ones that show up in blues and greens, or the current equivalent, do it wrong and try to prove the real raiders wrong while doing so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travio View Post
    Nah - if you have a healer and a tank survive the dance, they can duo the fight at level. Used to happen to me so very often because most of raid was either a) too lazy to learn the dance or b) just didn't move on time, usually due to lag. It takes a long time, but it took only two coordinated people to do the fight, even on 25 man.
    absolutely remember duo completing the dance.

    also remember never being able to get safety dance even after sitting a number of players outside the door.


    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  20. #40
    Ill go with Leviathan. I doubt an LFR group could down a rescaled Naxx 2.0 which was called one of the easiest and most "accessible" raids by "casuals".
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Raiding back in the day was a special snowflake circle jerk pretty much.

    You had to spend hours doing the attunement and blowing sunshine up the guild leaders ass, and then once you're in
    Odd how that bowing down to GL is not what happened in the guilds I was in back when I raideded. Also attunements was already part of your game play and other had some good lore to them.

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