What if Flex replaced normal and the size ranged from over 25 to 40?

[Jokerfiend]

That's certainly a potential, but I can't really see (H)Flex working. The tuning on heroic is much tighter than it is on any other mode, and proper tuning would be almost impossible if you couldn't specify ahead of time how many people were there. People are already trying to game how many people they bring to Flex for ideal difficulty.... on heroic I would wager that some people would say that is mandatory on certain fights.

As for costing less money.... when the difficulty is designed to be lower, absolutely, because it doesn't matter too much if they get it exactly right. On normal and heroic? If they wanted the same level of quality, it'd take a lot more testing because they'd have to do the testing they do now on 10 and 25, but for every raid size (not just brackets).

See that's the thing though, WoW isn't for Meta Gamers anymore. Those days are slowing grinding to a halt. It's about getting everyone in the same boat, if you will. That is what retains subscribers. If you Meta game that is your personal, guild, or whatever issue. They are going to stop balancing around these issues.

Being able to do things on a scale is the smartest thing Blizzard can do.

Maybe not Heroic, though. I'll give you that. We might actually see 10, 15, and 25(H), for more options of between guilds.

Normal is going to be gone. You mistake me. Flex and sliding ilvl loot, will replace normal raiding. It's smart business.

[darkwarrior42]

See that's the thing though, WoW isn't for Meta Gamers anymore. Those days are slowing grinding to a halt. It's about getting everyone in the same boat, if you will. That is what retains subscribers. If you Meta game that is your personal, guild, or whatever issue. They are going to stop balancing around these issues.

Being able to do things on a scale is the smartest thing Blizzard can do.

Maybe not Heroic, though. I'll give you that. We might actually see 10, 15, and 25(H), for more options of between guilds.

Normal is going to be gone. You mistake me. Flex and sliding ilvl loot, will replace normal raiding. It's smart business.

Hmmm.... I'm not sure I can see normal going away entirely, but I could see Flex taking its spot, and normal being made into something a bit harder. Something like:

LFR: Complete casuals, people who don't have time for anything else.
Flex: People that did normal in WotLK, guilds that are competent but not great.
Normal: Hard, for people that do heroics now but don't get very far or complete the tier.
Heroics: For the best of the best.

And I do agree, it probably is smart business...

[StrayFox]

I can see blizzard just blurring the lines of LFR, Flex, 10-25 man. Soon its just going to be Flex 10-25 man where it all scales including the loot. I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing 8-25 man flex or even 1-25 flex in the future. And then I can see a Heroic 10-25 man flex as well. It would make sense and be a lot easier for Blizzard overall.

If they want to do 10-40 man flex than all the power too them, I just think that it wouldn't be a popular choice and it would be a waste of Blizzard's time.

[gee]

I can see blizzard just blurring the lines of LFR, Flex, 10-25 man. Soon its just going to be Flex 10-25 man where it all scales including the loot. I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing 8-25 man flex or even 1-25 flex in the future. And then I can see a Heroic 10-25 man flex as well. It would make sense and be a lot easier for Blizzard overall.

1-25 flex? I am sure they would.

So many casuals complained in the past they do not have friends and cannot commit to guilds and all that. They will eventually make single player content in an MMO. I don't care.

It's a dead game anyways.

- - - Updated - - -

Thread title, emphasis mine: "What if flex replaced normal and the size ranged from over 25 to 40?"

Edit: At least I'm assuming that when the OP says "replaced normal", he's actually talking about replacing normal, as opposed to changing flex mode. If the OP is only talking about changing flex mode to allow for another 15 people, much of what I said isn't relevant... but in that case, there is literally nothing in the OP's thread title or in his OP that represents what he's talking about.

Why not keep normal/heroic as it is and make flex scale all the way up to 40?

[darkwarrior42]

Why not keep normal/heroic as it is and make flex scale all the way up to 40?

That might work. It would take some doing, and they'd probably have to either re-design mechanics or re-design the raid arenas going forwards to allow enough space, but it would probably work (though there would be definite hardware concerns, aside from mechanics and numbers issues). I just assumed that when the OP asked "what if flex replaced normal", that's what he meant :-P

[Balazzar]

Loath and hate flex, it should be removed. I see no fun in it now nor any fun in bigger one -_-

Loathe and hate your toons, they should all be removed. I see no fun in your toons now nor any fun if you made new toons -_-

[Deleted]

My best idea would be :

LFR: keep it like it is. While alot of people hate it, there are millions of people who like it, who just wants to see the tier. Please do not transition this thread now into LFr vs non LFR.
Flex: Flex could replace Normals, I can 100% see that. If not, keep it as it is, with a bit higher difficulty.
Normals: something between Normals and Heroics.
Challenge Raids: Basically like Challenge mods for Raids. Gear is scaled down, difficulty is at Cthun level.

[Mirishka]

Would you find that fun? Why or why not? We could definitely do 40 mans again if this was the case.

Flex is fine the way it is, it works perfectly the way it is. Making it 25-40 would ruin the feature for the vast majority of its intended audience, making it a pretty stupid change.

[Chirri]

40s can be fun when you're not the one having wrestle that many assholes into behaving and coordinating. Frankly, no one feels 40's are worth that pain unless it's for a world boss... and takes all of 15-30 minutes just to collect bodies before smashing the NPC apart.

As far as my guild goes, if Flex replaced Normals and only scaled from 25-40, my guild would vanish and I'd likely quit the game.

Flex is definitely easier, and things like OQ make pugging bodies easier, but more people use OQ than are interested in the effort slightly serious raiding involves. Perhaps things will get better as more people become familiar with the encounters, but there's no guarantee. Flex isn't so much easier than Normal that it means people can walk in with the LFR mentality and succeed, and that seems to be how some people are treating it.

I'd see LFR simply being Flex 25 difficult, but taking 40 bodies along instead of 25 before replacing Normals with 25-40 Flex.

[ShadowJester]

They shouldn't just stop there, there should only be two raid types: LFR/Flex 10-25(or more, whatever) and then Heroic Flex, but no lfr on that requires groups to be made. All these raid modes are ridiculous. LFR now babies people by neutering tactics and phases etc. Force people to step there game up but just making the normal mode the mode that most raid on, and then have heroic for the high end guilds that need some more of a challenge, or proof that they are so awesome. But right now 4 different types of raid is just bananas

[Mirishka]

Why are some people AGAINST making 40-man flex? If you don't like it, don't raid in a 40-man flex!

Because the feature wasn't added for 40man raiding and it wasn't added to bring back the nostalgia that is vanilla raiding. It was added for people who enjoy organized raiding, but aren't of the mindset to bench/replace players who aren't perfect players.

For people like to you to argue that Flex should be changed in such a way that it pretty much loses its target audience is, as I said above, stupid. Its fine the way it is, there's a reason that an *enormous* number of players have taken to it.

[Otimus]

No, but I'd like a 40 man LFR

[Quilm]

Would you find that fun? Why or why not? We could definitely do 40 mans again if this was the case.

no need for it, flex has hit its target demograph and has really become a sucess. i wonder if this was implemented before lfr if lfr would even exsist, but i digress, no it should not replace normals because then you leave a difficutly hole between flex and heroics. Normal raids are still lots of fun and can be completed on a limited sched but it would be crazy to expect people to make the jump from flex into heroics without having their faces wiped all over the floor.

[Racthoh]

i do think they need to remove some of the gear tiers.

hopefully flex and lfr can evolve into 1 tier and then normal mode can be removed entirely. we'll just have easy mode and hard mode.

[StrayFox]

1-25 flex? I am sure they would.

So many casuals complained in the past they do not have friends and cannot commit to guilds and all that. They will eventually make single player content in an MMO. I don't care.

It's a dead game anyways.

Man you people are sensitive, I've seen MMOs do 1 man content before, I'd rather they do 8-25 most likely blizzard will be adding more single player content in the future.

[Orcindauh]

I think they should just make a 40 man normal raid with only one boss just to see how it goes next xpac. Don't let it drop tier, It'll be sorta like Onyxia's lair in 3.2 or RS in 3.3, just an optional bonus boss.

[Halicia]

40 man flex lair boss would be cool.

we already do it for world bosses, so it could be nice to see the option there for a more 'social' environment.

i'd probably be pushing 30-35+ on the first 2 flexwings now if they allowed it.

[Otimus]

no need for it, flex has hit its target demograph and has really become a sucess. i wonder if this was implemented before lfr if lfr would even exsist, but i digress, no it should not replace normals because then you leave a difficutly hole between flex and heroics. Normal raids are still lots of fun and can be completed on a limited sched but it would be crazy to expect people to make the jump from flex into heroics without having their faces wiped all over the floor.

LFR is still way, way, way more popular than Flex. Flex is appealing to the hardcore and mid-core over LFR, no doubt, but to the casual majority, it's not really a stagnant and viable option to the level LFR is, because you can't solo queue for it, which inhibits it away from most truly casual players' game style. (i.e. this is why LFR was ever made to begin with, and it's been a long time coming, since LFD!)

[celinamuna]

Why would you want to replace normal ?

[Mercos]

Way too many raid brackets now IMO. I think Flex should have replaced normal, but at normal difficulty. That way guilds can roll with however many people between 10 and 25 that they want. I think adding in a fourth difficulty level was not necessary. Between LFR, Normal, and Heroic we have Easy, Normal, and Hard. There is not a big enough difficulty gap between LFR and Normal to warrant a new difficulty level between them. Most of the problems with LFR stem from a lack of coordination.