Equality Minister says rape victims can be equally responsible for being raped.

[Zecora]

I have to wonder how much of her comment was manipulated by the media. That being said, how many times do accusations of "rape" turn out to be a woman who regretted choosing to have sex with someone the night before? Or perhaps she got drunk/used drugs and literally throws herself at a man who is all too willing to oblige her? You really think she has no responsibility for the consequences of those actions? I'm a woman and I do not think anyone deserves to be raped, but at the same time one has to use a little bit of common sense in life and consider the consequences of their actions. We do not live in "Candyland" and there's a reason why they tell you to avoid going near certain places after dark, especially alone. Nobody in their right mind would suggest that walking down a dark alley alone warrants you being attacked, but common sense should tell you not to take the risk.

It is my impression that the media in Norway has a much smaller tendency towards manipulating statements than many countries do, I believe there is even a special comission that deals with cases where statements have been twisted, or the press have overstepped.

[Stir]

Maybe girls should not put themselves in situations such as agreeing to go to a party with 10 Somali refugees at a transition home. It's still not the girls fault for getting raped obviously but she should have been more careful.

So... You're telling me that women should be racist just because you are?

[Deleted]

So... You're telling me that women should be racist just because you are?

Well i also gave an example of why guys also shouldn't go with strangers to some shady place.
Also that particular example was taken from an actual case that happened in Sweden. I'm not saying she shouldn't go because they were black, but because they were several unknown men who comes from a violent third world country where rape and murder is rife. That's not being racist, just talking prudent precautions.

But I'm sure all you left wing feminist think you can change the world simply by showing respect and tolerance towards others. Pray you never have to see the dark side of human nature. You good intentions won't save you then.

[Achtalon]

I have to wonder how much of her comment was manipulated by the media. That being said, how many times do accusations of "rape" turn out to be a woman who regretted choosing to have sex with someone the night before? Or perhaps she got drunk/used drugs and literally throws herself at a man who is all too willing to oblige her? You really think she has no responsibility for the consequences of those actions? I'm a woman and I do not think anyone deserves to be raped, but at the same time one has to use a little bit of common sense in life and consider the consequences of their actions. We do not live in "Candyland" and there's a reason why they tell you to avoid going near certain places after dark, especially alone. Nobody in their right mind would suggest that walking down a dark alley alone warrants you being attacked, but common sense should tell you not to take the risk.

Why wonder when you can see the difference for yourself by clicking on the link?

The article headline:

'Girls who get raped are responsible': Minister

Her quote, quoted in the article itself:

"Girls are responsible for the situation they put themselves in, but boys also have a responsibility to respect a 'no'," she said. "I think both boys and girls have equal responsibility."

Is anyone not responsible for the situation they put themselves in? Plus, I would hardly call that suggesting some sort of law. It's suggesting that people take action instead of simply hoping everyone else treats them as they should.

Later, one of the people mad at her says:

"We've had this debate for such a long time in Norway, about how women dress and how much they drink, and it's time to talk about how to prevent rape rather than who's too blame," she said. "People won't report rapes if people in positions of power say such things."

Funny, the woman was also talking about how to prevent rape, and this other person pretends that's not what she was saying. The sad thing is that these people probably don't realize how wrong they are, because they are reacting emotionally. A less likely possibility is that they're just playing political agendas (pleasing their followers, etc.), though that wouldn't surprise me either.

[Stir]

Well i also gave an example of why guys also shouldn't go with strangers to some shady place.
Also that particular example was taken from an actual case that happened in Sweden. I'm not saying she shouldn't go because they were black, but because they were several unknown men who comes from a violent third world country where rape and murder is rife. That's not being racist, just talking prudent precautions.

But I'm sure all you left wing feminist think you can change the world simply by showing respect and tolerance towards others. Pray you never have to see the dark side of human nature. You good intentions won't save you then.

First of all: I'm not a feminist. I'm an equalitarian.

Second: I've seen my fair share of the 'dark side of humanity.' I've been subject to lots and lots of violence. Most of that non-sexual. I'm also convinced that my identity is my own, and nobody should be allowed to target me because of it, unless I try to use it as justification for harming others. To live by that, I must also subject myself to the same ideals. I will not conform, and I have to assume that my non-conformity, and that of others, is the base state of being. Is it reckless? Yes, it is. Is it dangerous? Possibly. But a better world starts with oneself, and no matter my actions, as long as I do not harm others or seek to do so, my behaviour does not warrant retaliation or violence. It is solely and fully the choice of those who exhibit such violent behaviour, and I have absolutely no responsibility for their actions, nor a responsibility for their choices.

Edit: Also, to take precautions such precautions because of criminal activity, to conform to such norms of dress or identity, is to allow dictatorship of the abuser. The abuser must not become a dictator, and may never be allowed to rule.

[Achtalon]

First of all: I'm not a feminist. I'm an equalitarian.

Edit: Also, to take precautions such precautions because of criminal activity, to conform to such norms of dress or identity, is to allow dictatorship of the abuser. The abuser must not become a dictator, and may never be allowed to rule.

I don't disagree with any of the quote I snipped, but this last line is too extreme. By this logic, terrorists win because we overprotect ourselves. I get that line of thinking, but there has to be a definition of "overprotect," aka some balance. Otherwise, terrorists win either way, because we do nothing to protect ourselves and their next attack is successful, or we board up our windows and let fear control our lives.

Another way terrorists "win" is by allowing ourselves to care about whether they're winning or not, and saying, "I'm gonna do this, to prove they don't matter." In a way, you're still being manipulated. It's almost as if other forces in the world inevitably act upon us, however indirectly, and we just have to live with it.

[virens]

You have to understand that if a someone is going to rape you, they are going to rape you.

Blaming it on what the victim wearing, where they were, and what they were doing at the time is often used an an excuse because people buy it. You honestly expect someone who is capable to rape to just be like, yeah, I did that because I wanted to? No. They are going to yell and scream and cry that it wasn't their fault, why it wasn't their fault, and that they really had no choice in it either. Why? Because it works.

Why is this even a debate? If you see someone you want, and they say no, you walk away. Even dogs can be trained to understand what no means, no matter how much they want the object of their attention. It doesn't matter how tempting something looks, no means walk away. Anything but that is a decision on your part, and nothing but a decision on your part.

Somewhere in my mind I think that men are better than dogs. The day that I decide if that men are lower than dogs is the day that I will agree that women are responsible for their own rapes.

Maybe the quote we are talking about here is your Minister not being anti-woman, but being anti-man.

[Stir]

I don't disagree with any of the quote I snipped, but this last line is too extreme. By this logic, terrorists win because we overprotect ourselves. I get that line of thinking, but there has to be a definition of "overprotect," aka some balance. Otherwise, terrorists win either way, because we do nothing to protect ourselves and their next attack is successful, or we board up our windows and let fear control our lives.

Another way terrorists "win" is by allowing ourselves to care about whether they're winning or not, and saying, "I'm gonna do this, to prove they don't matter." In a way, you're still being manipulated. It's almost as if other forces in the world inevitably act upon us, however indirectly, and we just have to live with it.

The Patriot Act is an example in which the terrorist did win. Their aim is to spread terror. They succeeded.

We'll always take some precautions. Locks for our doors, for instance. Insurance policies. But those precautions don't take away our freedom of choice. Precautions such as dressing differently, or pretending to be someone you're not, or avoiding certain locations... Precautions like that limit our liberty, and strip away our dignity. Do many of us have to take them regardless? Yes. Unfortunately, many of us do. Does that mean that it's their responsibility to do so? No. Not at all.

Edit: To get back to the example of the terrorists: Even if no precautions were instated, do you think the US deserved more terrorist attacks? If no precautions were instated, would the USA be responsible for its own safety? The initial choice to attack is not with the average USA citizen. It's with the terrorists who commit such an attack. Therefore, any and all responsibility should be with THEM.

[Vargur]

http://www.thelocal.no/20131017/New-...s-rape-scandal



So, funnily enough, this equality minister seems to have an odd perception on equality. To her, this seems to mean sharing equal responsibility for a rape, which strikes me as a tad... erroneous. =/

She apparently goes on to say later that she thought rape was the perpetrator's fault, and that the 'equal blame' she earlier referenced was in regard to both parties having an equal hand in setting up the circumstances leading up to the rape. What do you think? Is this viewpoint a rationally tenable one to any great extent?

Did she leave out man on man and woman on woman rape intentionally? Or women who rape men?

[Stir]

Did she leave out man on man and woman on woman rape intentionally? Or women who rape men?

I'll assume she simply didn't think about those.
Like... Most people.

[Vargur]

I'll assume she simply didn't think about those.
Like... Most people.

For a Minister of Equality, that seems ironic.

[Varabently]

I mean, equally responsible is pushing it. I would say girls share some SMALL portion of the blame. It's everyone's responsibility to keep themselves safe and not put themselves into dangerous situations wherever possible. Obviously if you get roofied, that's not your fault. I wouldn't say "you should be paying more attention to your drink" and blame the girl there. You shouldn't HAVE to watch your drink.

But at the same time, I've seen girls walk home drunk from a club instead of taking a cab. I think you need to take some small portion of the blame there, because you got so drunk you weren't thinking and walked into a bad part of town. Again, the bad part of town shouldn't be a thing you need to worry about, but there will ALWAYS be dangers and situations you have to avoid. That's part of being human.

When I say a small portion, I mean like 5% or less. The rapist clearly takes the lion share of the responsibility here. Rape makes me sick to my stomach (I can't even watch rape scenes in movies), so I'm inclined to think the guy is always at fault, in every situation. But I still think we need to make sure we are educating everyone on the dangers and making sure they make smart decisions to avoid it. For a third time, we shouldn't HAVE to teach them this because it's a stupid problem to have (the danger of rape being anything above 0%), but we can't cover our eyes and hope that it never happens.

edit: Obviously you can use male and female interchangeably here. I'm talking about a male raping a female which is probably the most common form of rape that occurs. I could be wrong there, but that's always my assumption.