is the US more divided now than before?

[Nictuswolf]

Now you are making stuff up.

Like Detroit is all the local administrations fault, and it has nothing to do with Reagan era, deregulation of markets and the emigration of manufacturing to off-shore locations? Yes...Detroit exists in a void, apart from America and the rest of the world.

Women's Rights/Gay Rights- Majority disagrees with conservatives, and asks them to keep their religion and ideology out of their lives. On the other hand Republicans are hellbent on forcing their minority stance on everyone. Freedom and Democracy doesn't work like that. That is why they keep losing elections.

The rest of your arguments are just stuff Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh made up for you.

LOL!!! HAHAHAHA!

1st Statement: Did you just blame Detroit on Reagan?

2nd Statement: Really, it's ok for us to be FORCED to keep our ideas to ourselves while you have the right to show yours and make us follow them? Whom is forcing whom?


3rd Statement: Your arguments are just stuff MSNBC and the Liberal news has made up for you.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

We've never been united in a long while. Sadly, that's how it is. I think being united is something until the Burning Legion, Old Gods or even aliens come to our planet if they even exist.

3rd Statement: Your arguments are just stuff MSNBC and the Liberal news has made up for you.

You assume he watches MSNBC and if you wanna qq about *Liberal news* then qq about Fox News.

[Titheon]

[mvaliz]

We've never been united in a long while. Sadly, that's how it is. I think being united is something until the Burning Legion, Old Gods or even aliens come to our planet if they even exist.

I've always said that Godzilla would be the answer to world unification... something that will remind us that human beings are all the same on one planet.

I was SOOOOO happy they actually went with that angle in Pacific Rim! ^_^

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I've always said that Godzilla would be the answer to world unification... something that will remind us that human beings are all the same on one planet.

I was SOOOOO happy they actually went with that angle in Pacific Rim! ^_^

In some ways we are the same but there are differeneces don't forget that. I never watched that movie but the premise sounds interesting...creatively. Still waiting for a new Godzilla movie.

But that's off-topic.

[Raeph]

OK - clearly you have a Republican/Liberalist ideology backing this.... one that I don't agree with....

...but you know what? I applaud you! You're the FIRST one here who presented the ideals behind it without resorting to ridiculous labels or too much fearmongering. Sure, I see the resentment... but that resentment wasn't what you're focusing on, but rather what you believe is the switches necessary.

While I still don't agree with your view, I'm at LEAST going to complement you on your civility! Please try to convince the rest of your party to act like that and you MIGHT see some more open up to your party's beliefs. ^_^

Thank you, sir.

Yes I'm a Republican, but I personally don't think much of the Tea Party/Sarah Palin crowd. Too much yelling, not enough discussion. Scale of -10 to +10 on a spectrum, (-10 dyed in the wool red Republican automaton, +10 dyed in the wool blue Democrat machine), I'd have to put myself at about a -2 or -3.

One of the stories, most likely apocryphal, about George Washington, that I've always remembered fondly was about a time during the Revolution. He was living in a town that was near the front lines. A messenger from the British general came to the home. The man was welcomed in and offered refreshment. He delivered his notice to Mr. Washington, which was a detailed note from the opposition demanding surrender. He told the messenger that He would decline to surrender. Then, after a cordial statement of farewell, he released to messenger to return back to the British military position.

If we had a leader like that in Washington right now, regardless of the moral, theological, political or social disagreements with that person, I would consider him a worthy leader.

I don't see any leaders in Washington like that right now.

I think at present the only reason why I'm not a registered independent is because I still feel it necessary to participate in the full election process, including the primary. Due to theological convictions, I find myself against most of the Democratic national platform. My vote in a primary would count for more against those who would actually consider me apart of their table, rather that those who consider me an anathema.

Still if I could I would like to sit down and have a conversation with several national leaders who show that they at least have a backbone enough to turn against their party for the sake of the people who elected them. I'd like to see a discussion with Lisa Murkowski, Chuck Grassley, David Vitter, Deb Fischer, Kelly Ayotte, Tim Scott, Mark Pryor, Mark Udal, Dick Durbin, Mark Landrieu, Debbie Stabenow and Max Baucus on just about any issue. I don't agree with them on everything but they have shown that they at least want to understand the other side enough to make a good-faith effort.

Oh well, one can hope.

[Binary Speaker]

Want a good look at what happens when liberals run something? >>See Detroit

Womens Rights: So it's ok to choose to murder a child?

Gay Marriage: This was just a shot at Christians, they always cry about Christians trying to make legislation against them but it is the opposite. They are making Legislation against Christians.

Health Care: Seriously? So it is ok for one half of the country to pay for the lazy half? Create jobs, jobs create money, money pays for healthcare.

Liberals are liberals because they take their liberal share of other peoples stuff, either it being money, freedom, or human life.

Liberals always cry "Fair share" but never pay theirs, they want their fair share at the expense of others.

This right here is why I won't vote republican as long as you keep spewing this nonsense. Especially Gay Marriage. How is it Legislation against Christians when a lot of Christians SUPPORT it? (Sorry this annoys me hehe)
Either re brand or fade into irrelevancy.
OT: Nah. The Civil War comes to mind.

[Falrinn]

Want a good look at what happens when liberals run something? >>See Detroit

Womens Rights: So it's ok to choose to murder a child?

Gay Marriage: This was just a shot at Christians, they always cry about Christians trying to make legislation against them but it is the opposite. They are making Legislation against Christians.

Health Care: Seriously? So it is ok for one half of the country to pay for the lazy half? Create jobs, jobs create money, money pays for healthcare.

Liberals are liberals because they take their liberal share of other peoples stuff, either it being money, freedom, or human life.

Liberals always cry "Fair share" but never pay theirs, they want their fair share at the expense of others.

Have you ever heard of something called the "Just World Fallacy"?

Essentially it's the belief that people ultimately get what they deserve. In the case of successful people, successful people believe that they deserve their success and conversely that unsuccessful people deserve their lack of success. While someone who does work hard is a lot more likely to be successful, the truth is there are millions of people who worked hard their entire life and got crap in return while there are others who had the easy road to success because they were born into a life of privilege.

Liberals recognize that people don't always get what they deserve and that unsuccessful people are not lazy bums who deserve their lot in life. That the American ideal of anyone can become successful does not mean that everyone can become successful. There are only so many jobs available at any given time and no matter how hard each individual works, some are going to get left out in the cold and we as a society have a moral obligation to ensure those that get left behind don't starve on the streets.

On the specific subject of healthcare, the truth is the American system is fundamentally flawed. We spend about 7% of our GDP on public healthcare and 8.5% on private healthcare. Pretty much every other western country takes that same 7% we spend on public healthcare and provides basic healthcare for everyone, and then only spends 1-2% of their GDP on private supplemental programs. About the only good thing we can say about our system is that ultrarich people tend to come here if they have a choice, which doesn't really matter for 99%+ of the population.

[Mormolyce]

The political parties are more divided now, I think that's largely down to the Tea Party. The populace itself is another matter.

To say Bush's Presidency wasn't divisive is probably the most astonishing thing I've ever heard. Does it really take less than a decade for people's minds to be wiped completely blank?

[Raeph]

You see this Raeph? This is the kinda insanity I'm talking about that you need to get rid of from your party.

EDIT: For your info Nick - if you believe us "Liberals" take at the expense of others... please observe my post I made here about the 30k I just paid this year in taxes, and was happy about it:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...6#post23022726

Yep, its why I can't hardly listen to politicians speak any more. It's that old "moral authority" thing raising its ugly head again. "You can't trust the other people. They are EVIL!!! Trust me because I'm not THEM!!!!"

Just for clarification, I don't believe that you have to be in government to be a politician.

[Theinquisition]

We've been worse, read about the fist fights going on in congress in the years before the Civil war.

- - - Updated - - -

You see, I think that's the part that I'm realizing.

It's not that we're more divided... it's as the other poster said above - it's about one side being FAAAR more angry/hateful/louder than the other, and that REALLY drives home the division.

It's like owning a German Shepard and Golden Retriever - two separate dogs with two different styles. Then one dies and you replace it with a Tasmanian Devil. :P

I think your over-reaching a bit.

I remember democrats being just as vindictive and overbearing when Bush was in office.

[Falrinn]

We've been worse, read about the fist fights going on in congress in the years before the Civil war.

That's what worries me. If the only time it's been noticeably worse was the leadup to the civil war, then we could have a serious problem on our hands in a few years if things keep heating up.

[Raeph]

Want a good look at what happens when liberals run something? >>See Detroit

Womens Rights: So it's ok to choose to murder a child?

Gay Marriage: This was just a shot at Christians, they always cry about Christians trying to make legislation against them but it is the opposite. They are making Legislation against Christians.

Health Care: Seriously? So it is ok for one half of the country to pay for the lazy half? Create jobs, jobs create money, money pays for healthcare.

Liberals are liberals because they take their liberal share of other peoples stuff, either it being money, freedom, or human life.

Liberals always cry "Fair share" but never pay theirs, they want their fair share at the expense of others.

For the record Sir, which History will show, Detroit is not an issue about the "Liberals" running something. It is an issue of corrupt politicians promising constituents sweetheart deals at tax payer expense, without those officials caring about the long term cost. Bush did that with the tax breaks and what not in the early 2000s, and others have done that in excess all over the country. Its why nationally we have somewhere between 1-4 trillion dollars worth of unfunded pension liabilities (depends who is doing the counting and with what method). Any elected official who has held office since the time the pension systems started to go into unfunded status is responsible for that problem. And that is just pension liability, not counting all the other overspending.

Burying issues behind sound bytes and catch phrases never helped a situation. It just makes people tune you out, at best, shout you into obscurity at worst.

[araine]

That was pretty far into his second term. Up until that point it was a lot more unified.

You could see a lot of right wing outrage leading up to the 1st midterm of Clinton's presidency. The obstruction was very real already from the start of Clintons presidency and we have seen the same and worse obstructions and i take my toys and go home attitude from the republicans in washington everytime we have had a democratic president.

Personally i wish democratic members started growing some backbone and stand up against it. Fight fire with fire since failing to do so just means you let the obstructionists far right wingers run the show and we cant tolerate that to happen.

[Theinquisition]

That's what worries me. If the only time it's been noticeably worse was the leadup to the civil war, then we could have a serious problem on our hands in a few years if things keep heating up.

Naaaa, that was just one example I could think of off the top of my head.

The 60's and 70's were also rough times for America. The schisms caused by the Vietnam war, and other domestic problems (I.E. Racism, class warfare etc etc) were a lot worse then.

We actually had domestic terror groups running around bombing shit.

[Crissi]

That's what worries me. If the only time it's been noticeably worse was the leadup to the civil war, then we could have a serious problem on our hands in a few years if things keep heating up.

Heres the thing, that's VERY unlikely to happen again. Our disunity is very fractured, as opposed to regional like it was Pre 1860. You would have civil war within the states within a country because its not north vs South. its not that united in opposition to each other.

[Kamatayan]

Yes the US is more divided now than ever before but what do you expect when you have a racist for a president.

[Theinquisition]

You could see a lot of right wing outrage leading up to the 1st midterm of Clinton's presidency. The obstruction was very real already from the start of Clintons presidency and we have seen the same and worse obstructions and i take my toys and go home attitude from the republicans in washington everytime we have had a democratic president.

Personally i wish democratic members started growing some backbone and stand up against it. Fight fire with fire since failing to do so just means you let the obstructionists far right wingers run the show and we cant tolerate that to happen.

Well obviously some of the outrage was warranted since the republicans took over the house as much as they did in 94.

The only reason Clinton even beat GHWB was because Ross Perot pulled as much of the vote as he did away from GWHB as a alternative conservative candidate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...election,_1992

[Crissi]

Yes the US is more divided now than ever before but what do you expect when you have a racist for a president.

thats fairly inccorect. one, we're less divided that pre Civil War. Two, racism is the belief other races are inferior / hate for that race, and Obama certainly doesnt hate whites. Why would he hate his own mother?

[mvaliz]

Yep, its why I can't hardly listen to politicians speak any more. It's that old "moral authority" thing raising its ugly head again. "You can't trust the other people. They are EVIL!!! Trust me because I'm not THEM!!!!"

Just for clarification, I don't believe that you have to be in government to be a politician.

Got to admit, I love that line! ^_^

And it's true... especially when you look at the polarizing news media outlets. >_<