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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by NoNamedPride View Post
    Doesn't upset anyone. Do what you want in your free time. If you can't play with pre-scheduled time, fine. Just don't demand stuff you guys don't need.
    demand? noones demanding, they are leaving. and once casuals are gone, blizzard wont have funds to pump out your pre-scheduled content at the rate it is now. keep in mind its only a video game for most people and wont bring a tear to there eyes once they move on.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukem View Post
    If Blizz would ever ask you "And what exactly you want to do?" I bet noone could give answer other than "to have everything in game".
    You're right in that people in general do not know what they want or what will make them happy (this is a well researched fact). However, I can tell you that I enjoyed my casual time in Vanilla (only doing 5 mans) and my casualcore raiding in BC (3 nights per week). I can also tell you that I did not enjoy raiding nearly as much from WotLK where it stopped being a linear progression with one mode.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrage View Post
    Except your statement applies to you only - and can't be used as a reason for why casuals as a whole can't raid.
    That's a problem in this community people just automatically think every statement is meant "as a whole". Where did I say all casuals can't raid because of scheduling issues? I simply gave the reason why I can't raid, and a well known reason why a lot of casuals don't raid -- a reason that is impossible to refute. A reason that only a fool would refute.

    Having to include disclaimers all the time around here unfortunately seems to be a necessary thing, I guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrage View Post
    The OP clearly says, "If Blizzard doesn't manage to add an endgame to the next expansion which offers the same excitement and rewards as normal or heroic raiding", which clearly can only mean raiding (like seriously what miracle do you want Blizzard to pull out of their asses to give you something similiar to raiding that ISN'T raiding?
    Path of the Titans is an alternate character progression path that isn't raiding:

    http://www.wowwiki.com/Paths_of_the_Titans

    DISCLAIMER: This does not mean that I want path of the titans in the game. This does not mean I like path of the titans. This does not mean that I think Blizzard should implement Path of the Titans. This does not mean that I think casuals won't whine when presented with Path of the Titans. This does not mean that I think Path of the Titans will ever actually be in implemented in the game. This does not mean that I think Path of the Titans is a good idea. This does not mean that, if implemented, it would be an alternate character progression path to raiding.

    THIS ONLY MEANS:

    THAT:

    You asked a simple question of what else could someone do at endgame that could provide rewards similar to raiding, and I gave you a possibility in Path of the Titans.

    Whew!
    Last edited by ablib; 2013-11-02 at 12:39 PM.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I'm sorry, if that offended you. Those type of lifestyles, education level, and societal issues are the first things I think of when people put video games ahead of real life.
    I am away from from home with work one night a week , work 40+ hours a week ( I am an industrial chemist) , have 3 kids who are very good at their sport and play and train in our states capital which is a 2 hour drive away , gamedays its a 7 hour round trip and 6 and a half on training nights ( after working a 7-9 hours ) 2 nights a week 8 months a year. I myself coach in a closer competiition but still the round trip is 4 hours .

    after all that I can still find time to raid . Your comments are quite wrong . you don't want to raid and that's fine , but if you do want to raid there are ways casuals can , some however are just too lazy to put in the gameplay to get ready to raid and expect to be carried. I have played and coached team sports all my life - and that's what I consider raiding to be . If you don't train in sport you don't make the team - if you don't put the effort into your character you don't raid -simple

    On a side not guys --ABLIB is not the OP -he isn't the one that is asking for more things for casuals - his only fault was generalising what a raider is
    Last edited by Sul; 2013-11-02 at 12:42 PM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by vamonos View Post
    no not really.. but id like to know how can u need flex with 571 ilvl when i dont need it with 566ilvl?(ok i do have one 543 item but too lazy to try replace it with flex and it wouldnt even be enough of an upgrade to get to 567ilvl)
    I don't need it anymore, but before I was finished with the tier I needed to run it and I still had like ~570 ilvl for trinkets and stuff.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelicat View Post
    These threads are such a waste of time. All these "casuals" who are CEOs and have supermodel girlfriends always talking about how they don't have time for this or that, yet have plenty of time to troll a topic like this for hours on end.
    No no you got this wrong it's CEOs with five masters, seven wives, twelve children doing voluntary work for doctors without borders while sky and scuba diving simultaneously and attending local nightlife.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    No it's not fun. I do pity myself, because in life, in game, and here I try to talk sense into people into hoping there is glimmer of life in society.

    Alas, I'm always greatly disappointed, and it's frustrating.

    I don't know why I care, though.
    You have it completely the wrong way around, that's the reason why you're always disappointed. It's you and not the rest of the world with issues.

    Your misguided definition of 'talking sense into people ' is belittling people and judging them for your own pleasure.

    This is the last post I will make on this thread, I sincerely hope you do get some help and work through those issues ablib. Take care.
    Last edited by FissionZero; 2013-11-02 at 02:06 PM.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Wait, you get to see the whole instance. Even in LFR. What exactly do you want? There is no more. No heroic raider sees more than you do. That is it. Wth do you want? The only way for you to have amore exciting endgame is... doing stuff that casuals don't do! Ie, organised raids, heroic content.

    Seriously, wtf? :P
    Seriously? Have you ever done LFR? I really have to laugh about all those people that think the only things casuals care about are "seeing the content" and obtaining max iLevel epics. Casuals are not stupid, just give them the same and not watered down content where most of the fights are tank and spank with all abilities of the bosses removed.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    Aggressive - definitely not. That would look different. Amused by the argument though. So in essence you want to play a mmo without other people - again you should try out one of the mobas out there. I mean obviously you don't want to play this game as it basically is required to be played at a convenient time in the evening.
    i'm currently playing 2 MMO's and partake in endgame on my own accord without having to wait for a specific time to partake well sure, a sign of a good design for an mmo endgame is that it can be done any time but still requires a good number of people & gives a good challenge. WoW still lives in 2004, there content design has not changed since then. and thats why its dying fast.

  10. #210
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    I feel like Captain Obvious when making this thread, but the game right now? It's shit. Not just normal shit, but pure shite.

    LFR? There's no fun in LFR. You run through it once to see the content... and next week you cancel your subscription again until the next raidpatch. In fact I didn't even bother doing LFR either for the last patch, since I already know it's just going to be a huge timedrain of mashing my DPS buttons on an easy boss that takes too long to drop dead.

    Timeless Isle, Proving Grounds, Brawler's Guild? Irrelevant content. I might be a casual, but that doesn't mean that I want to do challenging content that doesn't reward anything. I still like to feel my character growing stronger and earning rewards for the challenges that are offered to me.

    If Blizzard doesn't manage to add an endgame to the next expansion which offers the same excitement and rewards as normal or heroic raiding, but for casual players, who just want to play when they feel like it, then this will be the expansion that will cause the entire ship to sink.
    So you want to please your ego, if I read this right..
    One thing that strikes me here is, how you question the existence of "casual" content..

    Let me start with straying to the side for a moment.... CASUAL.
    I developed quite an allergy for that term. Overused, misused, thrown around as a label like it's getting out of style.. Guess what, it is out of style. It never was in style.
    For almost a decade we're playing this game. And the use of the term casual didn't exist at all.
    People played the game. That's it. There were elite players... But those were and are only very few. Everybody else just played and plays the game.
    We were and are fine with other descriptions like: Relaxed, Easy going, Laid back. Or Nerdy, Elitist to get to the other end of the scale.
    That Casual really has to be buried. At the end of the day, casual means nothing else than the opposite of formal. Perfectly reflected where it is used for over a half century already, Dress Code in the business world.

    Anyhow, back to topic.
    You want to progress your toon or toons, and you want challenging things to do.. Well let's see what we got.
    For once, we have PVP... You can play that branch of the game and experience all varieties of difficulty there. The higher difficulty you choose, the higher the rewards are for you there. Now, generally speaking, the PVP gear isn't the best thing around the block, when it comes to PVE content. Since Blizzard finally solved the long needed separation of PVE gear should be weak within PVP instances, and PVP gear should be weak within PVE environments. That leaves you with the situation how your PVP gear is rather sub-par in the world outside. And that's okay.
    We have PVE content.... Your claim to not be able to gear yourself up isn't true.
    Of course you will fall flat on your face if you run LFR only once. What you expect? A full set of gear from one run alone? That doesn't happen. And it shouldn't happen. If LFR doesn't suit your challenge feel, then do Flex... If that ain't enough, do Normal mode.
    You cannot? Then why not? If it's a time management thing, you can try to find like minded people in the same boat you are in. Put in the effort and be creative.

    Now for how much can you achieve, how much does one need outside the raiding resources of Flex+

    I have a toon, with whom I've never set foot in anything beyond LFR and the toon is geared with an item level of 549. If I get Ordos to be kind enough to hand me the bracers he's got in store for me, I would break the 550 mark. I would definitely break the mark, if I didn't want to maintain a 4pc set bonus.
    Then I could replace 2 536 pieces with 2 567 pieces, fully upgraded of course. Anyhow, that item level makes my toon very competitive for any content outside of current raids. And an item level of 550 is sufficient to raid normal mode, and you will not suck with it.
    All in all, Blizzard put all the possibilities into the game for everyone, as relaxed as one can be, or as nerdy and determined (oh I see what I did there) one is.
    Never in the games history was there more variety, never more ways to entertain ourselves.
    But if one is neither into PVP, or into Raiding at all.... They do not need an item level above 500 to get around in the game environment at all. And if one isn't into that either... Then chances are, how the game as a whole was just not meant to be for that person. Then it boils down to, how you simply picked the wrong game to play, or how you've grown out of it.
    We cannot expect the game to change to how we changed. That's unreasonable.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    i'm currently playing 2 MMO's and partake in endgame on my own accord without having to wait for a specific time to partake well sure, a sign of a good design for an mmo endgame is that it can be done any time but still requires a good number of people.
    Well then I see even less of an issue if there is already a game out with that fun endgame that doesn't rely on having people you know around and can be done without committing much time.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by topcatti View Post
    Why cant casuals raid normal, or even heroic? Really tell me. Play the game for 3 hours, 2 or 3 times a week? jesus
    It isn't about how much time, but rather the consistency of such time that makes the difference.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Himora View Post
    And there has hardly ever been any in the history of WoW, which just has design flaw stamped
    all over it. That crappy island? LFR? /Flex? those are your idea of casual endgame?
    Casuals don't need more content. Most of you wouldn't even get anything out of challenging stuff, because you would first have to beat them. Oh wait.. Casuals beating challenging stuff? Nope - requires Skill.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    Seriously? Have you ever done LFR? I really have to laugh about all those people that think the only things casuals care about are "seeing the content" and obtaining max iLevel epics. Casuals are not stupid, just give them the same and not watered down content where most of the fights are tank and spank with all abilities of the bosses removed.
    If you give the NOT- watered down content where most fights are complex and require lot of learning both the fight and your character they complain that the game is hard and alienating them

  15. #215
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duito View Post
    LFR IS NOT THE FUCKING REAL GOD DAMN END GAME....IF YOU THINK YOUR DOING SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU PLAYED LFR ALL THE WAY TO WING FOUR
    You are fucking WRONG!<snip>
    Sorry, But I missed the part where you do somthing compleatly and utterly different in Heroic on the last boss, than what you do in Looking for Derps.
    That is you both ultimatly kill the boss. The only difference between Heroic, Normal, Flex, and LFR is the quality of the gear obtained, and the difficulty of the encounters. All 4 are considered End game, as they are the end of the current content and storry at that point.

    Just because someone kills a boss in heroic, does not in any way mean that they are seeing a different end game to what is seen in LFR. Raiding is like comparing two fish, one is a Salmon swimming up streams and rivers, battling against the odds to survive. The other is a guppy swimming happily in a tank, being a special snowflake. but when you look at them both they are just fish. (I will let you judge which fish is which raider type)
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
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  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleuria View Post
    I don't need it anymore, but before I was finished with the tier I needed to run it and I still had like ~570 ilvl for trinkets and stuff.
    yeh ok i see the point. i was just lucky with weapons,tiers and trinkets this time around and the upgrade from 2/2 hc tot ring to 2/2 flex ring is nothing major (especially cos my valors were/are used to upgrade normal/hc pieces so i couldnt even upgrade the flex one)
    Last edited by vamonos; 2013-11-02 at 12:50 PM.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    Well then I see even less of an issue if there is already a game out with that fun endgame that doesn't rely on having people you know around and can be done without committing much time.
    there is an issue, WoW is the Grandfather of MMO's and i dont want it to be taken down to it's knees in shame as it is now.

  18. #218
    Blademaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    I feel like Captain Obvious when making this thread, but the game right now? It's shit. Not just normal shit, but pure shite.

    LFR? There's no fun in LFR. You run through it once to see the content... and next week you cancel your subscription again until the next raidpatch. In fact I didn't even bother doing LFR either for the last patch, since I already know it's just going to be a huge timedrain of mashing my DPS buttons on an easy boss that takes too long to drop dead.
    Did you ever expect LFR to be "fun"? If you did, i feel sorry for you. Most people already had an idea of what LFR would become before it was implemented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    Timeless Isle, Proving Grounds, Brawler's Guild? Irrelevant content. I might be a casual, but that doesn't mean that I want to do challenging content that doesn't reward anything. I still like to feel my character growing stronger and earning rewards for the challenges that are offered to me.
    Timeless isn't irrelevant content, can't comment on Proving Ground or Brawler's, as it offer WPvP, sort of, and a place to farm gear for your alt, how more casual-friendly can it be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    If Blizzard doesn't manage to add an endgame to the next expansion which offers the same excitement and rewards as normal or heroic raiding, but for casual players, who just want to play when they feel like it, then this will be the expansion that will cause the entire ship to sink.
    You stated later in a post that you spend est. 100 hours weekly on playing video games. What is the problem then by investing between 9-16 hours of those 100 to raid normal/hc when it gives the excitement and rewards you want? Honestly it just seems as a bad excuse to get what you want with no effort at all.

    It's kinda like life really. The more effort you spend on homework the better the grades you are gonna get the better are your chances of getting the work you want, the more effort you spend on work the better are your chances that you are the one in the scope when they look for an employee/employers to promote. The more you do the more you get and the better is the feeling when you get it.

  19. #219
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukem View Post
    If you give the NOT- watered down content where most fights are complex and require lot of learning both the fight and your character they complain that the game is hard and alienating them
    I would actually be all for that. The day that happens, I would do nothing but F5 Battle.net General forums and MMO.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by NoNamedPride View Post
    Casuals don't need more content. Most of you wouldn't even get anything out of challenging stuff, because you would first have to beat them. Oh wait.. Casuals beating challenging stuff? Nope - requires Skill.
    i'm casual, i have dawn of light when it was relevant, and Gladiator S1 & S2, and pretty certain i can put out better numbers than you. Another moron that thinks casual -/- unskilled. I'm guessing by your reply that you are ranged about 9 - 11 years old, let me educate you.. once you grow older you have more obligations that are more pressing & important than video games.

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