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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Expect to get flamed by all the fans here :P
    Why are you in these forums if you're not a fan?

    OT:

    Many people grew tired of playing mmorpgs and that's why they think it's a bad game, but these are the same people who get easily bored of SWTOR, RIFT, GW2, etc etc etc as well, so it's not a specific game but rather the genre they're not interested in anymore.

    I personally think wow is better now then it was in Vanilla as far as content goes, but the nostalgic feel of a new game, which many people still want, is gone.
    Anything is boring if you do it 16 hours a day for 10 years, reduce your game time and you'll quickly realize that you add a lot more years to the game.
    Stop playing if you don't like it, I don't play SWTOR because I really hated the fact that either did you fight a massive dude with loads of health or 3 smaller once, no choice, and you're forced to have a companion. I don't go on SWTOR forums and tell them I don't like the game.

  2. #162
    High Overlord Kornstyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldev View Post
    ...is still the best MMORPG out there by far.

    end of discussion
    In terms of Subscriber's Population, yes. In terms of content gameplay e.t.c., No.

  3. #163
    And i'm going out on a limb saying that the reasons why WoW is declining (In terms of subs) is :

    For multiple and complex reasons that canno't be explained in less than 100 pages of in-depht analysis of the market at each step of the game, the economics, the full disclosure of the ressources that Blizzard have at its disposal, a very high amount of analytical research and a very aggressive feedback enquiry amongst players that don't express their feeling about the game (80 to 95% of players).

  4. #164
    This thread delivers.

    'Round these parts, if you make a thread saying that the game is awful because it's not challenging enough, you get a flurry of responses telling you to quit if you don't like it.

    If you make a thread saying that the game is awful because casuals aren't getting enough attention, you get heads nodding in agreement, and well something needs to be done before more folks leave, Blizz.
    "Look around you. We're all liars here, and every one of us is better than you" - PB

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Why are you in these forums if you're not a fan?

    OT:

    Many people grew tired of playing mmorpgs and that's why they think it's a bad game, but these are the same people who get easily bored of SWTOR, RIFT, GW2, etc etc etc as well, so it's not a specific game but rather the genre they're not interested in anymore.

    I personally think wow is better now then it was in Vanilla as far as content goes, but the nostalgic feel of a new game, which many people still want, is gone.
    Anything is boring if you do it 16 hours a day for 10 years, reduce your game time and you'll quickly realize that you add a lot more years to the game.
    Stop playing if you don't like it, I don't play SWTOR because I really hated the fact that either did you fight a massive dude with loads of health or 3 smaller once, no choice, and you're forced to have a companion. I don't go on SWTOR forums and tell them I don't like the game.
    I think whats missing in these games today is the feeling of being in a "living, breathing" world, rather than the "theme park" vibe they have today. To have the feeling your fighting something that needs to be fought, to save whatever world, etc... And you want to do it because you care about the world, not just "this is the new ride this month". They lack a sense of immersion and purpose and I feel it's just laziness on the developers part and them following a formula that has worked. THe problem is the formula has gotten really stale and it needs to be reimagined.

  6. #166
    Pandaren Monk fengosa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    This thread delivers.

    'Round these parts, if you make a thread saying that the game is awful because it's not challenging enough, you get a flurry of responses telling you to quit if you don't like it.

    If you make a thread saying that the game is awful because casuals aren't getting enough attention, you get heads nodding in agreement, and well something needs to be done before more folks leave, Blizz.
    Doesn't that tell you something about what the majority of the player base wants? I think there's a legitimate complaint about the difficulty gap between heroic 5 mans and challenge modes but otherwise the game is reasonable challenging. PVP, brawlers guild and proving grounds are really about where they need to be. Even the Celestial Tournament requires a robust pet team and a solid strategy to take out the trainers.

  7. #167
    The Unstoppable Force det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kornstyle View Post
    In terms of Subscriber's Population, yes. In terms of content gameplay e.t.c., No.
    Well..that same argument was used in WotLK. It is - as many answers here show - all a point of opinion. Only as a hater, you consider yourself and fellow hater as "objective people who see the sign of the times" and others who disagree and like the game as "fanboys". At the end of the day it IS all opinion.

    I just wonder: If people are unhappy with any other game, is it as hard to let go? Do they come to forums and whine endlessly how the game didn't deliver? Or do they act like we all have acted before the Internet? Find a new game.

    Quote Originally Posted by satorius13 View Post
    EvE Online has been around longer than wow. It's never had millions of subs but has been slowly increasing over the past decade. It hit 500k subs last February, and has only ever been going up. Just wanted to throw that out there.
    Good to know. So maybe that is the niche MMo that reels in the one looking for a challenge.

    I still like to point out how every other game around WoW, even and especially games that SHOULD have trashed WoW because they have an even bigger franchise behind them, failed (Looking at LotRo and SW here). Or..let me rephrase it: Peeked and crashed in a fraction, then (possibly) recovered with a new approach.

    Especially SW could have done it all oh so much better, they had 6 years of WoW forum hate to look at and learn

    Seems it is not that easy to make the perfect game.

    So again...if the game does not change to meet your needs, maybe it is another game one needs.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ... there are lots of different types of players, with different amounts of time to play, and different tastes for the content and difficulty and time commitment they want to give to any of those pieces of content. The person that plays for an hour or so a few times a week is playing the same game as the person that plays five hours every night.....
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...261?page=8#154

  8. #168
    No my friend. WoW is not the problem.

    A smoker enjoys the first 1 or 2 years tenfold compared to the following to come. If that person becomes a chain smoker, he or she may or may not complain about the quality of cigarettes going bad over the years and/or that its all a stupid habit as it starts taking its toll, but the guaranteed result is that if the smoking is that which leads them to their death bed, they _will_ admit that it was just a stupid habit.

    "The game in it's current state doesn't have me coming back for more than a couple of months maximum"

    Does this mean you have already quit? If so I call your bluff.


    You are the problem.

    My advice? Stop WoW for 6 months, get your life in order, then come back with fresh lungs (fresh mind) and enjoy this magical game.

  9. #169
    The Unstoppable Force det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    They lack a sense of immersion and purpose and I feel it's just laziness on the developers part and them following a formula that has worked. THe problem is the formula has gotten really stale and it needs to be reimagined.
    This is very wishy-washy. Then again, you would rightfully answer that it is not your job to come up with something exciting. However a hint what "immersed" you in earlier storylines would have been great.

    I honestly never had the feeling what my purpose in Classic was. Nothing in the story for me led up to MC and pointed at it as "the next thing to do". I honestly felt that MC / Onyxia / BWL were very disjointed. I dinged 60 in EPL and Burning Steppes with MC was the furthest off my mind. I wasn't (as a MMO newbie) even aware the is such a thing as "raids" and the attunment to MC totally eluded me.

    TBC and expecially WotLK did that better (though both had some final tacked on raid). I would say WotLK was the x-pac that totally build up to a satisfying end in ICC. Then again...Illidan and especially Arthas were already favorite chsr. Even I who has never played warcraft knew the awesome WC3 cinematics.

    Cata to was again a disjointed experience..which it shouldn't have been.

    I really liked how MoP unfolded however, especially if you played through all zones and all scenarios. The Klaxxi twist on hitting exhalted was so awesome and now they are the second to last boss in SoO.

    But you can do nothing about the fat that apparently the story that some love is "lazy" to others. If MoP feels like a "lazy" x-pac to you, I really have no idea what would please you.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ... there are lots of different types of players, with different amounts of time to play, and different tastes for the content and difficulty and time commitment they want to give to any of those pieces of content. The person that plays for an hour or so a few times a week is playing the same game as the person that plays five hours every night.....
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...261?page=8#154

  10. #170
    ...the best and most successful MMO there is!

    Did I win?

  11. #171
    I agree with you partly on the progression part, but that really only goes for alts. My main is having a blast with raiding in pandaria.

    The thing i mostly agree on though is the lack of challenging hc's. I really liked what they did in wrath and cata with the newer hc's to get some catchup gear and lore with per patch.

  12. #172
    Herald of the Titans Alltat's Avatar
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    I think the game is better than ever. You're not expected to play for six hours per day to keep up anymore. You can just run a couple of dungeons and spend two or three nights raiding, without feeling like you're missing out on half the content because you didn't spend 18 hours grinding that reputation for that enchant.

    Also, in case you've forgotten it, vanilla was a buggy unbalanced mess. No point in bringing more than one of some classes to raids, some specs and races were ludicrously overpowered in PvP, and most specs utterly useless in the endgame, but that's fine because you're stuck looting and can't do anything anyway. Oh, and you can't get to the raid instance anyway because the flightpath doesn't launch and you get a super fast ground mount that you can't dismount from instead, until you touch something and the game crashes. At least that saves you the trouble of spending fifteen minutes flying from Undercity to Badlands, unable go AFK as you had to click again for each stretch since the flight masters weren't connected yet.
    Last edited by Alltat; 2013-11-04 at 01:48 PM.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  13. #173
    Cancelled my wow account a few weeks ago. After 8 years. Enough is enough. OP has excellent points.

  14. #174
    Brewmaster Shadee's Avatar
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    I agree with OP on everything. The game just gets worse and worse the more blizz caters to casuals.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Ironically Vanilla and TBC had a tiny fraction of the amount of endgame content we have in MoP. Did you ever consider that you've played this game a long time and have just gotten bored? Grinding new alts to max level over and over might've satisfied you years ago when the game was new but obviously it's boring now.
    Its boring after this amount of time of the same thing.
    The game can't provide new experiences for the long-term playerbase without hurting everyone else.
    The game format is as it needs to be, whether people like it or not.

    It was new back in vanilla, it was exciting when there wasn't a lot of the same.
    Now there is a lot more of the same, a fundamental problem with how the raid content is implemented and cannot be avoided.

    The end-game experience has to be based at entry level on the new players, those reaching that and the level cap for the first time.
    Therefore for you it will be boring, more of the same.
    If someone doesn't like that, they should go play another game which will eventually reach the same state, and then move on again.

    You can't make it new and exciting without supporting only a small portion of the playerbase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadee View Post
    I agree with OP on everything. The game just gets worse and worse the more blizz caters to casuals.
    Tired argument.
    The heroic raiding is still there, and still being cleared by a small portion of the "hardcore" audience.
    The game is providing plenty of content still for you, but you choose to be upset that there is content for someone who is not you.
    Get over it.
    Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-11-04 at 01:55 PM.

  16. #176
    @OP
    Completely agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Well then..like..play another game?

    It is not like WoW is an endagered species that everybody loves, like the Panda and goes out of their way to protect it. It you find the game so horrible..play sth else. There certainly must be some MMO out there who presses all your buttons.

    I add this, because as you so nicely put it yourself, it is the 902387^thread on the topic:



    This is where it really gets old. If you are a human..you are "dying" by default. And so is game that comes out ... "dying". Your new ipad and iphone is "dying" soon to be replaced by the next generation. I think that is why we have a GTA 5 and a Fifa 14 and a Final Fantasy..whatever...because all their predecessors died.

    Yeah, yeah..yeah..this game is almost 10 years old. This is why it is dying. Flog a dead horse, tell us how it is dying. Show me another 10 year old game that didn't decline. Show me agame that from day 1 on...never lost subs or players, but increased and increased and increased...In fact..show me another MMO that has been going so strong over 10 years.

    Tell us how it is dying and yet still has more subs than games that are 2years old and set out to definitely kill WoW. Yawn

    How about you go to Rift, SW and LotRo..or Aion and try to help them survive. They sure as hell need your help more it seems
    I will not play another game because WoW unfortunatelly is best so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk View Post
    No my friend. WoW is not the problem.

    A smoker enjoys the first 1 or 2 years tenfold compared to the following to come. If that person becomes a chain smoker, he or she may or may not complain about the quality of cigarettes going bad over the years and/or that its all a stupid habit as it starts taking its toll, but the guaranteed result is that if the smoking is that which leads them to their death bed, they _will_ admit that it was just a stupid habit.

    "The game in it's current state doesn't have me coming back for more than a couple of months maximum"

    Does this mean you have already quit? If so I call your bluff.


    You are the problem.

    My advice? Stop WoW for 6 months, get your life in order, then come back with fresh lungs (fresh mind) and enjoy this magical game.
    I haven't played for much longer, and Mists of Pandaria isn't a magical expansion really. I think we/I'm not the main problem.
    Last edited by -Kasumi; 2013-11-04 at 01:55 PM.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadee View Post
    I agree with OP on everything. The game just gets worse and worse the more blizz caters to casuals.
    And I remember from some conference call earlier this year, the casuals weren't even interested that much in those changes. Casuals don't want stuff to be served on silver plates, only bads want this.

  18. #178
    Well, I would have agreed with you OP on 100% 5-6 years ago. Now though, I don't. Why? The game you describe is very good, it has a sense of discovery, strong community, strong content and strong progression path. The drawback is that you HAVE to log in everyday for hours to do your stuff, to be current and successful. Actually I love those games as they really deliver that sense of personal achievement, but I don't have time for a game like that anymore. If WoW was such a game atm, I would not play it and I would have been fine with it, but Blizzard ultimately found out that if they lessen the need for the player to log in everyday for hours, they would eventually gain a lot more subscribers, even if those new subs are not as loyal and continuous as the hardcores.

    So, having said that I think WoW in its current state is a very, very good and addicting game still, you have hardcore content, but we also have a lot of content for casual players. There is a clear transition between becoming hardcore and becoming casual as well, while in TBC for example you couldn't just decide you'll be hardcore, you had to had done a LOT of content to even stand a chance to become one and if you were a casual the only content you had were dungeons and pvp, which was not very nice.

    So I'm absolutely honest - WoW is a better game now overall.

  19. #179
    Banned Thage's Avatar
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    And here I thought my problem with leveling was that it took too damn long. Silly me. I also thought the biggest reason I quit on and off in Cata was because they pulled 5-mans out from under my feet to cater to a bunch of people whining about how people aren't wiping in small group content (the horror). My bad. Thanks for telling me how things really are, OP.

    That being said, they gambled on posts like yours in Cataclysm and it blew up in their faces. Even today Blizz devs admit that it was a mistake and that any hard content will be optional for those who want it to go tackle it, not forced on the community at large.

  20. #180
    I think it's fine and the game has always been easy.

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