Do you think blizzard will implement any of these rogue ideas for the next expansion?

[Naiattavain]

I agree with you Murdeh.

you go with a dagger offhand for the deadly poison to proc more.

[Deleted]

My hope for combat rogues would be :

Remove slice and dice as a finisher. Reintroduce it as a passive stacking and resetting attack speed buff.

And for rogues offhand to at least deal equal damage to the mainhand. Sharing the same (lack of) miss chance as the mainhand would be desirable too, although possible overpowered.

I've been playing since tbc, came back for a little while during cataclysm and played a hard hit capped rogue twink. It wasn't optimal, but that's what I liked about non end game, there were far more ways to customise your playstyle.

Being hit capped at that level just felt right. It was rewarding to never miss even if attacks were somewhat slow they were still consistent something only rogues in my opinion can do.

[ymirsson]

No, I meant weapon damage. Actually I meant the description of any ability that includes "causes x% plus a 3-4 digit number weapon damage".
On the other hand, an AP based ability would be like warrior's old Bloodthirst : x% of AP as damage.

PS: Every spec should have an execute.

Based on AP is boring and feels wrong. I actually want my significant better weapon to be significant better.

[catablitz]

Based on AP is boring and feels wrong. I actually want my significant better weapon to be significant better.

One way or another everything is based on AP. Your significant better weapon will still be so. Thing is that no matter of what type of weapon your upgrade is you will never feel gimped because it is not the optimal one. I can't see how this is boring.

[Mormolyce]

Removing SnD for some specs etc is all well and good but don't forget they need to implement new more interesting spec-related abilities to take its place, ditto other things eg poisons.

Nooo..Then I can't cross water fast!XD

If that were to happen no doubt they'd extend the glyph to BoS as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Based on AP is boring and feels wrong. I actually want my significant better weapon to be significant better.

Weapon gives you AP as well?

[Yuyuli]

• Make SnD to be always active instead of a skill you need to use, it's way to punishing to lose this buff and you need to keep it up anyway, so really it's just a annoying filler so either make it permament or just remove it for all specs.
• fix energy regeneration, haste is terrible, hey look new exp? boring as hell rogue, oh end of exp? Spammy rogue.
• Combo Points on player and removal of redirection skill, because really.. it's a pita.

Are things i would love them to fix, well i could live without SnD fix but the other 2 things are really important to me so until they really fix this i won't ever try to play my rogue again, the other classes are way more enjoyable.

[Deleted]

What I'm trying to say is that they should get rid of the need for slice and dice at all.

They can easily do that if they remove the penalty for dual weilding weapons, so it shares equivalent auto attack damage and miss chance as the mainhand.

Slice and dice is appealing because haste is fun. But I just think it's a problem if a class relies on a 40% haste buff to be competitive.


Been playing around on my rogue today on a trial account, can't help but think that our resource system needs to be reworked.

First of all:

- Combo points should always be on the rogue. Remove redirect, put combo points on the rogue

Then there's my resource system wishlist:

- Separate Combo point generators and Finishers, by taking finishers off the global cooldown but make them share their own cooldown of between 1 and 3 seconds.
- Finishing Moves need to always hit harder than combo point generators, except for envenom because mutilate hits fairly hard and you can envenom more often, and it increase poison application anyway.
- Finishing moves should not cost energy to use, only combo points to use.
- Finishing moves may even generate energy.

And then there's some other stuff that would help:

- Passive recuperation, remove it as a finishing move. 1% health per second regardless of combat would feel interesting and unique.

Other stuff that would be interesting:
- Envenom Increasing attack speed by 50% for the duration, instead of a passive slice and dice.
- Slice and Dice being a stacking combat spec passive that increases your attack speed with each successful hit

[Deleted]

What about the idea of removing the energy cost from finishers? How would that sound?

[Rigapples]

What about the idea of removing the energy cost from finishers? How would that sound?

Long overdue, and won't happen. Finishers double dip - we have to spend energy to gain combo points, and then spend energy AND combo points to use a finisher. They should not require both resources to be used, but it's been the design since Vanilla and I don't see them addressing it.

SnD should be removed, period. Either bake it into the class as default, or remove it and balance the damage lost via tweaks. It's a lame ability and it always was. Keeping SnD up is trivial and does not provide a way to separate the 'good rogues' from the 'bad.' There is no skill involved.

Combat: RvS should be proc based instead of a buff we have to reapply. Chance on SS (or auto attacks) to find weakness in the enemies armor. When the proc activates, we can use RvS. It's the same mechanic that many many many other classes have (just like Dispatch for Assass!) and it feels much more integrated than what Combat has today. Finishers need to be revamped in this spec - Rupture is used in all 3 specs ATM, and I see that as a problem. Rework Combat Finishers.

Assassination: I actually think this spec is in a great place. It's easy to understand, fun to play, and it has 'flow.' I understand it's a little boring at times, but having one noob-friendly spec isn't such a problem in my opinion. If it is kept as-is, it should NEVER out-dps a competent player in Sub or Combat.

Subtlety: Should go back to being the PvP spec. I understand they want to try and keep every spec viable for raiding, but that's overzealous IMO. I love playing it in PvE, but I'd much rather have it go strictly back to PvP then have them revamp it and remove the positional requirements. It has a niche and it's been this way for so long - it just feels wrong to rework it and 'backstab' and 'ambush' from the front.

Just some quick opinions from a lifetime Rogue.

[Bznga]

Combat: RvS should be proc based instead of a buff we have to reapply. Chance on SS (or auto attacks) to find weakness in the enemies armor.

I agree with you about making RvS a proc based ability but turning it into a find weakness ability would be awful.I mean we all keep saying that all specs play too similar.
It would be a lot more fitting if they were to make it a proc based ability related to energy.

Also i disagree with you about sub.I dont want it to be a pvp only spec again.Actually i would really love it if they make it a bleed heavy spec.But nobody seems to like that idea

[Deleted]

Assassinations would be better if they removed the dependency on rupture. That would make the energy regeneration flow better. I miss having focused attack back in wotlk, I actually enjoyed that playstyle.

Combat could do with revealing strike dealing more damage/rewarding more combo points than sinister strike, but having a short cooldown. The only reason revealing strike is there is so you don't mash sinister strike to 5 combo points.

Subtlety? Eh, It's all over the place. Not happy with it personally in terms of design but apparently some people are making it work in pve and that's great. Really dislike that it's so "bleed heavy".


Anyways, I just got a reply from celestalon:

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...18317346136067

Sort of happy about that, there's a small chance this thread may get escalated, maybe they're even reading it right now even though that seems unlikely. Maybe that post will be on the front of mmo.

[Deleted]

Assassination: I actually think this spec is in a great place. It's easy to understand, fun to play, and it has 'flow.' I understand it's a little boring at times, but having one noob-friendly spec isn't such a problem in my opinion. If it is kept as-is, it should NEVER out-dps a competent player in Sub or Combat.

It sure had no flow at the start of the expac.
I disagree on the "it should not outdps the other specs' statement.
It should do strong and competitive dps overall, but do more in situation that suit the spec. Same should happen for the other two specs, which should have their areas of strength.
I finally want diversity and a real choice between ALL THREE specs we have.
I am tired of only being able to play 1/3 or 2/3 of my class because of some shitty mechanics like having to have loads of haste or only being able to play a spec well if you have last tier gear.

[Deleted]

Remove slice and dice as a finisher and remove the penalty for dual wielding a weapon in the offhand, possibly not increasing its miss chance seeing as how we can't stack hit any more.


I think rogues, or at least Subulety, needs to be the spec that can burst on demand, that's what it's niche is. Doesn't neceesarily need higher dps, but more spikey dps so that it can excel on certain encounters.

[mongoose6]

This isn't really a rogue suggestion, or something I think will ever come to pass, but I think it would be really cool if there were highly stylized cut scenes for whomever gets the killing blow on a raid boss. Something kinda like how COD shows you the final kill for a match. If the killing blow is eviscerate, then cut to your character performing a vicious eviscerating slash to the bosses abdomen. Or a mage launching a huge fireball into the bosses face. Poor healers would probably feel left out though

[Deleted]

This isn't really a rogue suggestion, or something I think will ever come to pass, but I think it would be really cool if there were highly stylized cut scenes for whomever gets the killing blow on a raid boss. Something kinda like how COD shows you the final kill for a match. If the killing blow is eviscerate, then cut to your character performing a vicious eviscerating slash to the bosses abdomen. Or a mage launching a huge fireball into the bosses face. Poor healers would probably feel left out though

Well, on a similar note I've always thought it would be cool if you could get an actual animation for killing a player that only you and your team can see.

I mean it would be pretty cool to see a warrior execute, actually knock a player to the ground with an axe in their head or something - sort of like assassins creed but that's rated 15 at least so it would affect the certificate.

But it could certainly have at least jokey animation, like they had in worms which was rated age 3+, where ice blocks shattered and characters could get smacked across the screen.

[Deleted]

Something that's been bugging me recently: why can't assassinations use swords?

I'm not talking about having it as a complete end game viable dps, but it sure would be fun to have it as a gimmicky spec to level or pvp with.

Is there any reason that mutilate "has" to use daggers? I'm pretty sure I've heard the term "axe mutilator" before and there's certainly nothing precise about mutilation that it would require a dagger to perform.

I'm just really likening the idea of running around with dual swords, poisoning and mutilating. Is that too much to ask? I don't like combats clunkiness, and I can't exactly use swords for Subulety and I've never liked how hemo rewrites itself.

Really now backstab is getting reworked, is there any *need* to force our specs down one route or another? Perhaps with the exception of combat daggers, even then I am yet to see a valid excuse now apart from sinister strikes weapon damage commitment.

[Deleted]

I'm still not exactly happy we havnt heard anything about rogue changes yet. Just bumping my thread to keep it alive really.

infracted: spam

Just adding it here, if the discussion is active and people is interested, the thread doesn't need bumps. Otherwise you should let it die peacefully.

[Deleted]

I've rewrote my original post rather than making a new thread.

I'm kind of interested to hear what people would think about an adrenalin rush that is build up from auto attacks. It solves a lot of problems with stacking and rotation without differing from the originals too much.

[catablitz]

I'm kind of interested to hear what people would think about an adrenalin rush that is build up from auto attacks. It solves a lot of problems with stacking and rotation without differing from the originals too much.

- Slice and Dice being a stacking combat spec passive that increases your attack speed with each successful hit

After the lvl 100 talents were revealed I would not want to be forced to cap hit when that lovely talent will be implemented that gives 1 CP per crit. So, no.

The most important matters in my opinion are: diversity, CP on rogue, cleave and passive anticipation. On second level, I would like
1. To not be obliged to apply dots for max potential sustained
2. Have BG reworked to something that does not force you to micromanage as blizzard actually intented (based on what they said)
3. Execute for every spec
4. One dedicated spec that weapon types does not matter.

PS: If any interaction to current state is to lead to what happened to fury warriors in cataclysm, I would rather have everything stay as they are.

[Deleted]

After the lvl 100 talents were revealed I would not want to be forced to cap hit when that lovely talent will be implemented that gives 1 CP per crit. So, no.

The most important matters in my opinion are: diversity, CP on rogue, cleave and passive anticipation. On second level, I would like
1. To not be obliged to apply dots for max potential sustained
2. Have BG reworked to something that does not force you to micromanage as blizzard actually intented (based on what they said)
3. Execute for every spec
4. One dedicated spec that weapon types does not matter.

PS: If any interaction to current state is to lead to what happened to fury warriors in cataclysm, I would rather have everything stay as they are.

You won't be able to stack hit in next expansion, it'll be gone as a stat.

Bandits guile is a stupid mechanic anyway and I've never liked it.