Being told i'm underperforming

[Extremity]

I swapped guilds a few weeks ago and a member I was talking to in Vent after a raid told me I was "underperforming". I explained that I'm only 545 (548 at the time of this posting, but 545 for the raid in question) and based on my gear I'm doing about the DPS I should be, along with the fact that on a few non-progression fights I've been trying to provide a little utility and haven't been purely nuking the entire time as the fights are cake (running around and helping dispel on Thok, etc) but apparently he is confident I am doing *far* less than I should.

What's not helping is their "main" Warlock being furious at me (to the extent that if I even say "hi" he replies with "don't fucking talk to me") for saying that at my item level crit is better than haste for me. I didn't just blurt it out, it's based on simming my toon several times and actually testing several different reforge/regem setups and then doing some extended training dummy runs; I know that's not an incredibly accurate way to test, but doing a 100m run on each setup does at least give you an idea for a tank/spank style fight.

I'm currently running Mastery >> Crit > Haste, with my stat weights as Mastery: 280, Crit: 209, Haste: 172. which is the average of my sims. I average around 210-240k over a purely single target fight without any adds to shadowburn cleave, havoc CBs, etc.

My armory is here:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tremy/advanced

It seems that pretty much nothing I say matters and that the Warlock that has been there longer is trusted more and that my opinion is invalid; quoting resources such as sims or posted guides that share the same opinion regarding stats results in a "that doesn't mean anything" and any time I say "stat x is better than stat y for me right now" I get a "well WHY is it better, do you know WHY?" and then my explanation doesn't really matter.

I've also been reading the Warlock thread and have seen that a few people are also saying haste is starting to become better than stated in most documentation, but I'm still not seeing an improvement when increasing its priority. Again, could it be that it's just not better yet for *my* gear/ilevel? Do you guys have a different stat weight I could try? Anything?

I don't want the guild to think I'm underperforming but I really feel that some might not understand that, 1) stat weights and priorities can and will change as I accumulate gear, and 2) my stat priorities aren't going to be the same at 545 (again, now 548) as they are for another lock at 560.

Am I completely stupid and doing something wrong? I'm absolutely open to try new things, but the Warlock didn't approach me and say "Hey, why don't you try ________ because of _______" but instead just told me to fuck off and only replies with "don't speak to me" if I ever dare to send him a message.

Not really looking for feedback regarding guild politics or personal opinions, I actually like the guild and every other experience has been positive, most of them are really cool and I don't have any issues, I'm just trying to make sure I'm doing the best that I can do while I accumulate the pieces I need to improve. I feel like a few key pieces are holding me back more than others, for instance my trinket, and feel that once I upgrade those (ie getting bindings for trinket 2) it'll help a lot too. (Edit: This is my third 90 and I don't have the cloak yet, but I should get it next week. I'm thinking that will play a huge part too.) Thanks for any input!

Edit: Since I got gkicked for all of the "drama", the Warlock is [nevermind, removed I guess.] [sic] and the person saying I'm underperforming is the ret, [removed].

[D3thray]

In the range of 210-240 for single target ilvl 548 w/o legendary cloak or 608 cloak seems about right, especially given that 502 Wushoolay's.

I would venture a guess that their current warlock hasn't looked into your performance nearly as much as you have.

[tithian]

My gut reaction is that the other lock is just being a d!ck.

Seriously, considering your gear your dps seems fine, but having a log of a recent raid would certainly help a lot.

[Extremity]

My gut reaction is that the other lock is just being a d!ck.

Seriously, considering your gear your dps seems fine, but having a log of a recent raid would certainly help a lot.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ac...um/damageDone/

This was before I thought it was an issue, so as I said on non progression easy fights (ie everything pretty much) if I had the opportunity to help in another way I did it. Dispelling, using embers to heal myself if out of range or healers low, etc. From now on I'm just straight nuking because I just need to squeeze out every bit of dps I can. I'll post another after a run where I'm just going all out the entire time, I admit I'm lacking on this one (it's just the only one I have to post).

[Rorillane]

Stop doing your utility and just DPS.
Your greatest increase in DPS isnt going to come from your sim logs, from your stat weights, from how you reforge or whatever you think is really helping your dps.
Your ability to perform your rotation consistently and pick up on situations where you can nuke/cleave efficiently is when your dps will be highest. For every second you run around not casting to dispell, you can kiss that reforging stat weight simming bullshit goodbye, because you've now voided its entire benefit.

[Extremity]

Stop doing your utility and just DPS.
Your greatest increase in DPS isnt going to come from your sim logs, from your stat weights, from how you reforge or whatever you think is really helping your dps.
Your ability to perform your rotation consistently and pick up on situations where you can nuke/cleave efficiently is when your dps will be highest. For every second you run around not casting to dispell, you can kiss that reforging stat weight simming bullshit goodbye, because you've now voided its entire benefit.

I'm aware of this. We did heroic immerseus first and I was third. When the fight calls for it, I drop the bullshit and nuke. When the fight is cake and is going to die either way, I try to help make other people's lives either. My main since Vanilla has been a Paladin and I think I'm just too used to playing a hybrid, and Paladins are pretty much the definition of utility. I know my rotation and I know when to nuke/cleave/snipe. I know my class, the utility wasn't a coverup for not knowing what to do.

As I said from now on I'm just going to ignore all of that and do nothing but blow shit up even if the fight is a joke. Before this happened I didn't even know there was an "issue".

[averykey]

You should bring this up with your raid leader and tell him all the things you have been doing in detail, there is no excuse for this other lock to be so rude.

If he is a good raid leader he will take care of it.

[Deleted]

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ac...um/damageDone/

This was before I thought it was an issue, so as I said on non progression easy fights (ie everything pretty much) if I had the opportunity to help in another way I did it. Dispelling, using embers to heal myself if out of range or healers low, etc. From now on I'm just straight nuking because I just need to squeeze out every bit of dps I can. I'll post another after a run where I'm just going all out the entire time, I admit I'm lacking on this one (it's just the only one I have to post).

The worst part of your gear is your Wush, you should try to replace it with a Bindings/Other SoO trinket azap

Really, other than gaining other gear - you should be working on timing.

Timing is everything in lock dps, abusing Shadowburn cleave and in general burst in windows where you have strong procs will always something we can improve on (all of us):

[Extremity]

I know the rotation, I don't have gaps between my casts, and I shadowburn cleave whenever I can (although you're right, it's something we can all improve).

I just did a few 100m runs on the raiding dummy.

Mastery > Haste > Crit
102m damage total
192.4k DPS

Master > Crit > Haste
104m damage total
234.5k DPS

I just don't see how haste could be better than crit for me at this point with my gear. It was a very big deal that I apparently thought "haste was trash", which I don't, I just don't think it's as good as crit... whether crit is 1% or 50% better, "better" is still better and that's all I was trying to say. Meh.

PS: better

[rijn dael]

Don't test on the dummy unless you have full raid buffs/debuffs. Best bet for testing imo is probably spam p3 in flex (it gives you a nice single target, dual target, and multi target adds test).

There is two single target fights in the entire tier, three if you only do normals. Don't gear around single target. Gear for multitarget, which is where haste is going to help more than crit.

It is hard to quantify how much you lose by not having the metagem, but that + cloak is probably ~15% of my damage? Can't do much about that, had the same problem when I started playing mop, and everyone already had meta gem. Just have to explain patiently, and point out when gear is a massive upgrade to you, rather than +a few ilvl to other people. If your guild can't appreciate that, you have a problem .

ps: dispelling on thok shouldn't hurt your dps, take fel imp, and make a weakaura to alert when there are debuffs out on the raid - raid is stacked, and it isn't on the gcd because pet is casting it - no 'cost'. If it does, make someone else do it, you need to get your dps to the point where you can do it while asleep, then you can dispel - especially true if you are being judged on your throughput, and not utility :P

[Bigbamboozal]

You know, people talk trash about LFR heros, but that other warlock, is the reason I cbf with normals and heroic modes anymore.
A lot of people seem to think they are leet and no one else on the planet can work google or download some addons.
I wonder if that type of person wakes up every day and goes to the mirror and says "I'm a giant douche, I'm a giant douche, that's my persona, no one is as good as me at pixels, even though we aren't even ranking in the top 100, I'm the BEST!"
If I were the raid leader I'd bench that lock, for creating drama, for nasty behaviour, for ruining the community of raiders i had gathered, but mostly, because he has it coming and needs a reality check.
Look, if wow were real, if there really was death involved, maybe he'd almost have a leg to stand on, but this is a fucking game where they mail you dragons, even if you want to be the best, you don't need to be a giant asshole to do it.

[Extremity]

Don't test on the dummy unless you have full raid buffs/debuffs. Best bet for testing imo is probably spam p3 in flex (it gives you a nice single target, dual target, and multi target adds test).

There is two single target fights in the entire tier, three if you only do normals. Don't gear around single target. Gear for multitarget, which is where haste is going to help more than crit.

It is hard to quantify how much you lose by not having the metagem, but that + cloak is probably ~15% of my damage? Can't do much about that, had the same problem when I started playing mop, and everyone already had meta gem. Just have to explain patiently, and point out when gear is a massive upgrade to you, rather than +a few ilvl to other people. If your guild can't appreciate that, you have a problem .

ps: dispelling on thok shouldn't hurt your dps, take fel imp, and make a weakaura to alert when there are debuffs out on the raid - raid is stacked, and it isn't on the gcd because pet is casting it - no 'cost'. If it does, make someone else do it, you need to get your dps to the point where you can do it while asleep, then you can dispel - especially true if you are being judged on your throughput, and not utility :P

I was originally using the Fel Imp for dispel but the only time I really needed to contribute was during kite phase and people just aren't close enough for it to work, so I'm using Sac and command demon for the dispel (I can see who has the debuff on grid). It's the running to get in range of somebody that lowers my DPS, otherwise you're right, it'd just be a GCD. The healers can't really run out of range of 8 people to dispel one person, so I tried to help with that. I'm not going to next week and on the kill this week I only had three dispels (that doesn't mean I only did it that many times, but healers are getting better at it and it gets removed right before I use mine) so I'm just going to nuke. I'm also being told that I should be destroying melee on that fight, but my main is a Paladin and I have a *much* easier time as melee. He also says I should have twice the uptime over melee, but the interrupt really fuck me. When they get fast I can practically do nothing but Fel Flame/Conflag/RoF, and otherwise I'm just alternating between fire/shadow when I get locked (I found it was better to just eat the lock and swap schools rather than swapcasting) but you still lose a LOT of damage due to that mechanic.

But yeah, again, I do have the meta but agree that the cloak will make a BIG difference. When I check the logs, other Warlocks sometimes have the cloak as high as third or fourth on their total damage, which is craaaazy good.

I honestly am not worried about people being "mean", it's not a big deal. The problem is that I am a recruit and have been there long enough that it's getting to the point where my trial is over. They just decided to try a new recruitment policy where the guild members decide who stays and who doesn't, and mentioned that if three or so members don't want somebody, they don't get in. If their "main" warlock is determined I'm just a moron and am flat out gearing incorrectly, whether I really am or not, obviously people are going to trust a long-time member over a recruit. I just don't want to get the boot for underperforming and gearing incorrectly if I'm actually NOT. If I am, then sure, but all signs point to me doing around what I should be based on my current gear.

I do have the Meta, btw. I will have cloak next week hopefully.

- - - Updated - - -

You know, people talk trash about LFR heros, but that other warlock, is the reason I cbf with normals and heroic modes anymore.
A lot of people seem to think they are leet and no one else on the planet can work google or download some addons.
I wonder if that type of person wakes up every day and goes to the mirror and says "I'm a giant douche, I'm a giant douche, that's my persona, no one is as good as me at pixels, even though we aren't even ranking in the top 100, I'm the BEST!"
If I were the raid leader I'd bench that lock, for creating drama, for nasty behaviour, for ruining the community of raiders i had gathered, but mostly, because he has it coming and needs a reality check.
Look, if wow were real, if there really was death involved, maybe he'd almost have a leg to stand on, but this is a fucking game where they mail you dragons, even if you want to be the best, you don't need to be a giant asshole to do it.

There was no drama or anything, it was in a tell. He left a flex and I just sent a tell saying "If you left because you're worried you wont get secrets, once you get that quest you can still run it again to get them " (he was on an alt) to which I was told "do not ever speak to me". Then in vent I asked the others if I had done something to upset him that I wasn't aware of and was told I was underperforming and he was pissed because of this whole gearing thing, and that's why I posted this. There was no actual drama, the raid is not interrupted, and he gets along with everyone very well. He hasn't done anything outside of tells and neither have I, and I think the most that's happened was in a raid he told me I was a fucking moron and terrible for thinking "haste is worthless" because I said I wanted a mastery/crit piece over a mastery/haste piece due to crit being better than haste for me. I just do not comment anymore, if I disagree it doesn't matter what reasoning I have, I am the scrub recruit and he is the main warlock and I'm automatically wrong.

As I said, I didn't post this threat for guild political debates. I was hoping to point the guy at this thread afterwards and say "Look, it's not just me" and I don't want it to be filled with a bunch of "fuck that guy!" posts etc. Note that I did not say which Warlock it was or which guy said I'm underperforming, because I am *absolutely* not trying to trash talk or create drama. I'm just trying to have an opportunity to point this way and say "It's not just me, I understand my DPS is low in the raid but you need to understand I'm doing as well as I can with what I have".

[Oohwakamuu]

The worst part of your gear is your Wush, you should try to replace it with a Bindings/Other SoO trinket azap

Really, other than gaining other gear - you should be working on timing.

Timing is everything in lock dps, abusing Shadowburn cleave and in general burst in windows where you have strong procs will always something we can improve on (all of us):

Gonna echo Faylo here. Considering that trinket, your dps seems pretty good. At some point, you can't fight math. I can't wait to see what they say about your dps once you get Bindings or Black Blood.

I know it's not what you were intending, but I'm also going to echo the sentiment that one of those two locks is a dbag.

[Ectothrix]

And this is why I don't give a shit about progression raiding anymore. I have enough stress in my life. I will stick with flex and LFR thanks. Even then I get told I could do better. But I don't care anymore, I just wan't to have fun. I spent years doing raiding from MC - ICC as a top guild.

People, they just cant ever shut up about how good they are and how bad you are. If I was the OP I would tell this guild where to shove it.

Heh that guild is even on my server.

[Deleted]

They should just stop looking at your dps and actually kill more hardmode bosses. This DPS is not gonna stop you killing atleast 3 more bosses.
If anything, it's their fault for recruiting you and they should feel ashamed for having this guild name with a toxic warlock like this in your raid...

But yeah, you definitely need the gear, especially the legendary cloak and the Immerseus trinket.

[Souflikar]

I know you didn't want personal opinion and quite frankly, I know nothing of locks. But I do know ppl and to me, it really sounds like the other lock feels threatened.
If that is the case.....he will become more toxic as your dps increases.

[Deleted]

You have no cloak or 502 trinket, you are doing fine and you are simmed to around that dps.

[Kindahuge]

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ac...um/damageDone/

This was before I thought it was an issue, so as I said on non progression easy fights (ie everything pretty much) if I had the opportunity to help in another way I did it. Dispelling, using embers to heal myself if out of range or healers low, etc. From now on I'm just straight nuking because I just need to squeeze out every bit of dps I can. I'll post another after a run where I'm just going all out the entire time, I admit I'm lacking on this one (it's just the only one I have to post).

I'd start looking into other guilds, although this nerdrage you're getting from the other warlock is becoming increasingly common place, lots of the antisocial "numbers and nothing else" players these days, even elites back in the day could carry on an actual conversation outside of raid time. It doesn't sound like the guild knows a valuable member when they see one, someone who will take the time to be the best they can in their current gear and even now, you're coming here and asking advice while shouldering their shitty attitudes. Either leave or ignore this guy until you've got the gear to outperform him : )

[Glurp]

"I play a DPS class and I am bringing unneeded/unasked for utility at the cost of my DPS."

Your problem seems pretty clear to me.

[meekus]

Make sure to outdps this other warlock when you catch up in gear, please. That would be fun.