Being told i'm underperforming

[Extremity]

Just going to state it clear, for everybody to read. There has been some very toxic posts in this thread, and this will not be tolerated. If you cannot word your concerns without adding hurtful comments or the like, you're better off not posting.

If this thread goes further off-topic, we will be closing the thread.

I've been trying as best I can to keep saying I'm interested in replies related to gearing and performance; I am guilty of delving into some gossip in my replies when other people bring things up, but I absolutely don't want this to be a bashing thread in any way and as I've said I'm not interested in anything regarding guild politics. I'm sorry if it derails into that, but it is absolutely not even close to my original intent

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I'll repeat again...


2. Immolate should be up 100% no questions there - EVEN is there are procs and stuff going on, because Immolate DoT by itself does damage equal to Chaos Bolt during it's duration AND it even generates embers. In other words - Immolate DPET is the same as the Chaos Bolt one - every time you cast Immolate and it's DoT runs full duration - it's the same as if you casted Chaos Bolt, but it also generates embers - there is no ifs and buts about it, Immolate should be up always. It is even better to refresh it during procs because it snapshots crit chance boosts and every time the Immolate tick crits you get double embers.

3. Don't use RoF, it's a loss, trust me - there is a 140 pages theorycrafting thread going on where people would die for as low as 1000 DPS difference out of 300k and the conclusion is that RoF is not worth it and is a loss. It is even worse because of the way casting works with latency in WoW and because of the fact that you need to aim it too.

4. No excuses accepted there mate, if you see boss at 3-4% and you have 3 Embers, don't count on procs coming in last seconds and dump those Shadowburns in. Procs are important, but you have to end the fight with 0 Embers (well 2 from Shadowburn refund ), otherwise you lost DPS. 3 Shadowburns during a whole 20% phase is seriously horrible, no way to pretty it up and don't take it personal.


Make your Weak Aura alert you when there is 6 seconds or less left on Immolate on target - this way you will always have a window to refresh.

The Warlock thread here says Immolate is better to drop first during movement than a fel flame? Are you saying it's not worth it on a single target even during that downtime but on movement it's acceptable without KJC, or to not even do it while moving and just stick to fel flame 100% of the time?

[Gaidax]

The Warlock thread here says Immolate is better to drop first during movement than a fel flame? Are you saying it's not worth it on a single target even during that downtime but on movement it's acceptable without KJC, or to not even do it while moving and just stick to fel flame 100% of the time?

I think you meant Rain of Fire. And yes, I think the only case ever to cast Rain of Fire in single target fight is if you are moving and have no KJC, but that is it and AFAIK it equals to the Fel Flame in that scenario, but can be cast from any position. Never use it stationary, anyway.

At any rate - these are peanuts, fix the major stuff like Immolate, Doomguard and Shadowburns.

[Wildtree]

I was kicked, apparently mostly due to this post.

Not going into the tech part here now.
Just dealing with the social interaction part.

Pro:
From everything I've read, you are what I call today a rather rare breed. Too many people forgot how initiative and a situational eye are as much of a big part of raiding, as fulfilling the own task and role alone. Your intentions to provide utility and support tasks are positive, and an intelligent raid leader ought to be able to see this, at the latest when analyzing the logs. That he/she should do when there are questions about someone's performance.

As the threads existence alone shows, you apparently do not remove yourself from any criticism, and you try to find out whether you are in the wrong somewhere, and seek information where you are wrong if that's the case.

You seem to be an honest person, otherwise your guild would not have known about this thread and kicked you for it.

Which brings me now to the cons...
Cons:
Before going out and start a thread somewhere, the first approach should be your guild contacts. You should have tried to talk to the raid leader, and if present your class officer. Those are your first contact steps. Raiding guilds in progression stage are not too different to the real world practices when it comes to that.
Outside in the real world at work, it's a no go to tunnel the hierarchy ladder. You don't skip the supervisor and go to the manager. You don't skip the manager and go to the boss. That's not how it works and usually backfires one way or another. Which it did for you, as we know now.

When you are new to a guild, hold back. Don't get into discussions about beliefs. Stat debates are such belief discussions. That rarely works. That doesn't mean you cannot say anything on such topic. But shut up when the other party isn't receptive. I had that situation a while back where I was the new guy, and some other player claimed vehemently in guild chat, how Mastery is the Prio stat #1 after Hit/Exp for Hunters. I do play a hunter, I know my class too..
For all I did was posting the prio Hit-Exp>Crit>Haste>Mastery..
He went right ahead and dismissed it as wrong. And he knows better, since he raids heroic (with his druid though lol).
I did not challenge him at all, I didn't even respond to his dismissal. Why would I go ahead now, and go into details in length why the stat prio is what it is, and why he's wrong. If he's in that belief, he'll figure it out soon enough when he realizes how much he sucks with his prio.


Conclusion for further endeavors:
You are the new guy. You are eyed how you blend in. You need to try with positive attitude. Be friendly, be polite and helpful. Don't overexpose yourself. You need to achieve to grow into the construct. From my experience, it takes a lot longer than a month to scope out all the nooks and crannies of how a guild works and rolls.
The smaller a guild, the faster you know. But the smaller they are, the more difficult is it to break the ice and blend into that reclusive mini community.
Every guild is different, and to figure it's community out, isn't a task achieved within a few weeks.
Show your attitude that leads you to be supportive and helpful during the encounters outside of raiding too. And you should find a place where you are most welcome.

[Extremity]

I think you meant Rain of Fire. And yes, I think the only case ever to cast Rain of Fire in single target fight is if you are moving and have no KJC, but that is it and AFAIK it equals to the Fel Flame in that scenario, but can be cast from any position. Never use it stationary, anyway.

At any rate - these are peanuts, fix the major stuff like Immolate, Doomguard and Shadowburns.

RoF, yeah, sorry. It's been an exhausting night and it's not 9am and I still haven't slept -.-

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Not going into the tech part here now.
Just dealing with the social interaction part.

Pro:
From everything I've read, you are what I call today a rather rare breed. Too many people forgot how initiative and a situational eye are as much of a big part of raiding, as fulfilling the own task and role alone. Your intentions to provide utility and support tasks are positive, and an intelligent raid leader ought to be able to see this, at the latest when analyzing the logs. That he/she should do when there are questions about someone's performance.

As the threads existence alone shows, you apparently do not remove yourself from any criticism, and you try to find out whether you are in the wrong somewhere, and seek information where you are wrong if that's the case.

You seem to be an honest person, otherwise your guild would not have known about this thread and kicked you for it.

Which brings me now to the cons...
Cons:
Before going out and start a thread somewhere, the first approach should be your guild contacts. You should have tried to talk to the raid leader, and if present your class officer. Those are your first contact steps. Raiding guilds in progression stage are not too different to the real world practices when it comes to that.
Outside in the real world at work, it's a no go to tunnel the hierarchy ladder. You don't skip the supervisor and go to the manager. You don't skip the manager and go to the boss. That's not how it works and usually backfires one way or another. Which it did for you, as we know now.

When you are new to a guild, hold back. Don't get into discussions about beliefs. Stat debates are such belief discussions. That rarely works. That doesn't mean you cannot say anything on such topic. But shut up when the other party isn't receptive. I had that situation a while back where I was the new guy, and some other player claimed vehemently in guild chat, how Mastery is the Prio stat #1 after Hit/Exp for Hunters. I do play a hunter, I know my class too..
For all I did was posting the prio Hit-Exp>Crit>Haste>Mastery..
He went right ahead and dismissed it as wrong. And he knows better, since he raids heroic (with his druid though lol).
I did not challenge him at all, I didn't even respond to his dismissal. Why would I go ahead now, and go into details in length why the stat prio is what it is, and why he's wrong. If he's in that belief, he'll figure it out soon enough when he realizes how much he sucks with his prio.


Conclusion for further endeavors:
You are the new guy. You are eyed how you blend in. You need to try with positive attitude. Be friendly, be polite and helpful. Don't overexpose yourself. You need to achieve to grow into the construct. From my experience, it takes a lot longer than a month to scope out all the nooks and crannies of how a guild works and rolls.
The smaller a guild, the faster you know. But the smaller they are, the more difficult is it to break the ice and blend into that reclusive mini community.
Every guild is different, and to figure it's community out, isn't a task achieved within a few weeks.
Show your attitude that leads you to be supportive and helpful during the encounters outside of raiding too. And you should find a place where you are most welcome.

I spoke with several people. I even asked an officer for permission to post the logs before I did it, in case they didn't want it public. I was in no way attempting to go behind anybody's back and the issue all along has been a lack of communication. The GM nor any of the officers told me there was any issue, yet I was kicked today because of apparent long standing issues and that "my personality does not fit in". Which required an IMMEDIATE kick and bypassing of the application doctrine that states if you fail the trial membership you just get demoted to friend rank. Even in the OP I stated that I wasnt here for guild politics or drama, just for performance information. The point of this thread was I was not getting through to ANYBODY, that I was being flat out told they trusted the other warlock over me because from their perspective he's doing better dps and has been there longer and im the new guy doing less dps. I felt that if I had a thread where 20 warlocks were agreeing with me I could at least say "Look, I'm not alone". I was only trying to show that I wasn't underperforming by "7-90k dps". This entire thing has been unprofessional and ridiculous. If I'm being kicked not because of damage issues but because there are personal issues with members, I should have been told a week ago and given a chance to fix it. I wouldn't be immediately kicked for that. It really just seems like they're unhappy with the thread and the people that disagree and/or are speaking negatively of them (which I am apparently egging on and responsible for because I am "doing nothing to stop it" even though Ive made SEVERAL POSTS asking people to please stop and stick to gear/performance discussion) and just don't want to say that's the main reason they decided to do it RIGHT NOW. My "personality" wasn't a match because i'm not going to sit there with with smiley emotes while somebody calls me a fucking moron, or is blatantly wrong in a debate regarding gear/stats and expects me to back down because i'm a trial and they're not. the only thing wrong with my personality was that i didn't take any shit.

edit: this also isn't something that happens frequently, in fact, since i started playing in vanilla i have never had a social issue in a guild before now. i've never had issues with other members to this extent, and ive certainly never dealt with anything like this. i was completely unaware that there was any issue until 20 minutes before being kicked, as i said; if there were such massive issues between me and other members i feel like i'd at least have a tiny idea of them. i dont know. i dont really want to talk about guild politics anymore. its done, i got kicked, great for them, ill find another guild or transfer back to my original server. or maybe ill find a good guild on another server and transfer there, who knows. once i get my cloak next week i think it'll be a lot easier.

[OokingDooker]

RoF, yeah, sorry. It's been an exhausting night and it's not 9am and I still haven't slept -.-

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I spoke with several people. I even asked an officer for permission to post the logs before I did it, in case they didn't want it public. I was in no way attempting to go behind anybody's back and the issue all along has been a lack of communication. The GM nor any of the officers told me there was any issue, yet I was kicked today because of apparent long standing issues and that "my personality does not fit in". Which required an IMMEDIATE kick and bypassing of the application doctrine that states if you fail the trial membership you just get demoted to friend rank. Even in the OP I stated that I wasnt here for guild politics or drama, just for performance information. The point of this thread was I was not getting through to ANYBODY, that I was being flat out told they trusted the other warlock over me because from their perspective he's doing better dps and has been there longer and im the new guy doing less dps. I felt that if I had a thread where 20 warlocks were agreeing with me I could at least say "Look, I'm not alone". I was only trying to show that I wasn't underperforming by "7-90k dps". This entire thing has been unprofessional and ridiculous. If I'm being kicked not because of damage issues but because there are personal issues with members, I should have been told a week ago and given a chance to fix it. I wouldn't be immediately kicked for that. It really just seems like they're unhappy with the thread and the people that disagree and/or are speaking negatively of them (which I am apparently egging on and responsible for because I am "doing nothing to stop it" even though Ive made SEVERAL POSTS asking people to please stop and stick to gear/performance discussion) and just don't want to say that's the main reason they decided to do it RIGHT NOW. My "personality" wasn't a match because i'm not going to sit there with with smiley emotes while somebody calls me a fucking moron, or is blatantly wrong in a debate regarding gear/stats and expects me to back down because i'm a trial and they're not. the only thing wrong with my personality was that i didn't take any shit.

edit: this also isn't something that happens frequently, in fact, since i started playing in vanilla i have never had a social issue in a guild before now. i've never had issues with other members to this extent, and ive certainly never dealt with anything like this. i was completely unaware that there was any issue until 20 minutes before being kicked, as i said; if there were such massive issues between me and other members i feel like i'd at least have a tiny idea of them. i dont know. i dont really want to talk about guild politics anymore. its done, i got kicked, great for them, ill find another guild or transfer back to my original server. or maybe ill find a good guild on another server and transfer there, who knows. once i get my cloak next week i think it'll be a lot easier.

Just stop. Get on with your WoW life. Go find another guild. If everything you posted is true so far, and if that terrible warlock in question is indeed the poster that was spewing ludicrous information about destro, then clearly these guys are clueless and aren't worth dealing with. You've made 1 gigantic post after another in this thread. Is it seriously worth your time? Sargeras is a pretty big server, I doubt you even need to transfer to find a new guild.

[Damosapien]

cant believe that baddie guild said 'have fun not progressing'.
i mean wow, do they really think 1 heroic is progress? its clear to see on the logs that while their are imperfections, your not at the bottom, and are beating some clearly bad players whose i-levels vary from 553 to 560+. in a 25 man their are going to be clashes of personalities or whatever, but you should hunt higher than those idiots.
for the future however, remember that in 25 you have to show that your a good dps by the meter, the rest will not matter 99% of the time, only top end guilds will check the logs. i joined my current guild in tot as the only player who hadnt killed a heroic boss and with only 530 i-level, 1st boss jinrok hc, i walked in and decided i was going to stake my claim by pushing the boundaries and add some element of risk for a greater reward, i was 5th... that meant that while i was trial i was in for the most bosses of the other trialists and got the most gear of the trialists too. things will level out later, but in a trail numbers are everything.

[Deleted]

You seem like a good warlock and a team player, I am certainly one of those people who prioritise utility over just nuking, during the protector fight in the vale me and another warlock bounce the mob who casts mark of anguish on a random person then to the locks it goes. on Galakras I sacrifice my felhunter so i can silence the shamans who heal. even on juggernaut I sacrifice voidwalker for defensive so I can take up to 2 crawler mines one after another. But by all means dps is needed but survival is key in allot of fights. Plus on the case of gear stats, i go mastery / Haste / crit out of preference and just have the stats you think are the best and not from what other people think and also because my dual spec is affliction and destruction those are my best stats. Just keep doing what you do best and let your guild know this. In the long run if some continue to tell you off and if the guild gkicks you they are not a very good guild.
I had a similar experience when I was healing on a priest during the cataclym firelands patch. another priest kept telling me to do things right and was giving me tips. Some where good but he was just being bossy and eventually after 1 month I was kicked due to not up to standard but I was clearly helping in our boss fight. There are some people who think they are right all the time and nothing will sway that attitude. My brother for example. :P

[The Skeptic]

As a non officer member of the guild the OP was kicked from, I'd like to touch on a few points.

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The GM nor any of the officers told me there was any issue, yet I was kicked today because of apparent long standing issues and that "my personality does not fit in".

Literally five seconds after you joined and were put on the applicant guild rank, you started talking nonstop. It'd be hard to say exactly what you were talking about, because after 10 or so spammed guild messages within the first minute, most of us deduced that you talked because you liked the color of your text. This ranting on and on about nothing at all continued for pretty much the entire duration of your stay. Negative impression +1

About an hour into your first raid, you started the same pattern of constantly talking about nothing on our voice server. After a few raids, you decided you needed to explain raid strats to our raid leadership on vent in the middle of raids and even in the middle of boss pulls. Negative impression +2

Once you laid the groundwork with you first two negative impressions, it wasn't hard to see that continuing the same behavior wasn't going to change things. Yet somehow, you still didn't get it. You argued constantly with various different raid members about a whole gamut of subjects. You continued being a giant annoyance in raids by running your mouth both on vent and in chat until almost nobody in the guild could even stand your presence. Negative impression +3


After you had been an applicant for a week or so, I did a LFG 5 man one night to valor cap. One of the people in the group asked me about you as the run was ending. Apparently he was an officer in your last guild.Long story short, we talked for a few and I found out that all the things you had been doing that were pissing people off were the exact same things you did in your last guild.

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edit: this also isn't something that happens frequently, in fact, since i started playing in vanilla i have never had a social issue in a guild before now. i've never had issues with other members to this extent, and ive certainly never dealt with anything like this. i was completely unaware that there was any issue until 20 minutes before being kicked

The same exact situation happened in your last guild weeks before. Either you're unable to see things that are glaringly obvious, or you're just flat out lying.

I suspect that this has happened to you more than twice.

[xskarma]

I think we've seen about enough of the guild drama and random insults and ignoring of the question of how to help OP get better results, instead going on about the social issue he's asked us several times to ignore.

OP, feel free to browse the forums sticky guides and make a more to the point post or thread about any issues you see or experience in your play, but this thread is not going to get you the result you seek.

Let this be a lesson to all that it's best to concentrate on the technical aspects people can help with in your thread and not on the guild drama that will only lead to more drama.


CLOSED.