Mythic Mode Raid Comp?

[Nitros14]

Right now in 25 man the average encounter is 5 healed and quite a few are four healed, Outside of Thok (lol8heal).
I think 4 would be the average for a 20 man.

The average 25-man guild 6 heals. Only heroic guilds with good healers tend to 5-heal everything.

[Safyra]

I hope they somehow will implement encounters which will require 3-4 tanks, just for a nice change.

[Keltas]

Honestly, the biggest problem I see with this 20man setup is that it's 4 dps and a healer being cut. potentially more if they move back towards 3+ tank fights (which were fun though) That means there needs to be even more tanks/healers per dps going around, which we all know isn't the case.

I see raid comp being the same as most have been posting though, 2 tanks, 14 dps, 4 heals.

[Felocity]

The average 25-man guild 6 heals. Only heroic guilds with good healers tend to 5-heal everything.

Well the topic was Mythic so I assumed we were talking about heroic guilds with good healers?

The impression I get from adding another difficulty is that it wont be as easily accessible to the "average" guilds that heroics are available to currently.

[Akalaka]

Well the topic was Mythic so I assumed we were talking about heroic guilds with good healers?

The impression I get from adding another difficulty is that it wont be as easily accessible to the "average" guilds that heroics are available to currently.

From what I understand, this is not a new difficulty. Raid Finder is still raid finder but flex was renamed to normal, normal was renamed heroic, and heroic was renamed to mythic.

The summary on the front page here does make it sound like a new difficulty but the PowerPoint presentation from the wow panel says otherwise

[Deleted]

From what I understand, this is not a new difficulty. Raid Finder is still raid finder but flex was renamed to normal, normal was renamed heroic, and heroic was renamed to mythic.

The summary on the front page here does make it sound like a new difficulty but the PowerPoint presentation from the wow panel says otherwise

Mythic will be Heroic. However we can expect tighter balancing I guess - which should mean slightly tougher fights.

[Gravityx]

Mythic will be Heroic. However we can expect tighter balancing I guess - which should mean slightly tougher fights.

Well if they are making Mythic difficulty to be less casual and more for high-end raiding, it better be difficult. If someone clears it in a couple weeks, it would mean they failed, and the whole locking it to 20 players thing would be pointless.

[Nitros14]

Well if they are making Mythic difficulty to be less casual and more for high-end raiding, it better be difficult. If someone clears it in a couple weeks, it would mean they failed, and the whole locking it to 20 players thing would be pointless.

You're crazy if you think top guilds won't clear everything in a week or two at most.

[Ham on Rye]

I can see it now...
20 man
4 healers
5 classes with healing specs...

Inc "SUNWELLED" for healers for whoever the poor 5th ends up being

[Dracodraco]

I can see it now...
20 man
4 healers
5 classes with healing specs...

Inc "SUNWELLED" for healers for whoever the poor 5th ends up being

The ideal roster would consist of 5 healers (one of each), and rotate them around depending on who's stronger for that specific boss, actually.

[Nitros14]

Well the topic was Mythic so I assumed we were talking about heroic guilds with good healers?

The impression I get from adding another difficulty is that it wont be as easily accessible to the "average" guilds that heroics are available to currently.

There is no 'adding another difficulty'. Heroic is just being renamed mythic.

[Dracodraco]

There is no 'adding another difficulty'. Heroic is just being renamed mythic.

And the vast majority for whom setups are going to matter will be 4 healing it, just like the vast majority of 25 man guilds for whom setups matter right now are 5 healing bosses <.<.

[wrynil]

since ofc 20 man is closer to 25 than 10 man, and i see that you all say 4-5 healers. Is disc + fistweaver + 3 healers a bad idea? Like what healers in theory would be best to bring if 4 or 5 healers?

[Dracodraco]

since ofc 20 man is closer to 25 than 10 man, and i see that you all say 4-5 healers. Is disc + fistweaver + 3 healers a bad idea? Like what healers in theory would be best to bring if 4 or 5 healers?

Going to depend entirely on how they revamp healing and the encounters in question. Going with disc+fistweaver and 3x other healers if you need the extra healing, assuming they would work exactly as they are now, would be ideal unless you REALLY need to pump DPS.

[Socialhealer]

The ideal roster would consist of 5 healers (one of each), and rotate them around depending on who's stronger for that specific boss, actually.

nah 6 healers, always 2 priests 1 holy 1 disc...priests always so insanely good, u can keep both and drop 2 other specs.

[wrynil]

Going to depend entirely on how they revamp healing and the encounters in question. Going with disc+fistweaver and 3x other healers if you need the extra healing, assuming they would work exactly as they are now, would be ideal unless you REALLY need to pump DPS.

Hehe ye exactly what i meant and wanted to know. So far thats all we have to go on, but luckily we can also try and rearrange plans during beta if it turns out to have been changed too much.

[BlissfulBlithe]

It'd be cool if we could have more tanks, tanks to me usually make the raid feel much more epic. You have 1 tank in a 5-man, but only 2 in a 25-man?

Imagine a Council-type fight where there's about 4 or 5 tanks, with there being two tanks on one big boss at any one time, taunt-swapping and the other tanks are tanking the medium sized bosses as well as the small trash.

Mythic should be 2-5 Tanks, 5 Healers, 10-13 DPS.

Maybe even a tank:healer:dps ratio of 1:1:3.

10M: 2 Tanks, 2 Healers, 6 DPS
15M: 3 Tanks, 3 Healers, 9 DPS
20M: 4 Tanks, 4 Healers, 12 DPS
25M: 5 Tanks, 5 Healers, 15 DPS

[Dracodraco]

nah 6 healers, always 2 priests 1 holy 1 disc...priests always so insanely good, u can keep both and drop 2 other specs.

You have to be kidding, right. No one in their right mind would bring a holy priest along to anything this entire expansion. This is the best tier they've had so far in this expansion, and they're usefull on exactly one fight - Malkorok. Even on that fight, although disc brings less HPS than Holy by a small margin, disc is far superior due to the fact that their divine aegis and general shielding still goes in before the encounter shield, meaning you can turn people invulnearable with shields (imagine having a person sit with 25K hp - anything that breaks his shield, such as taking a ball accidentelly or getting smashed into the air and then taking fall dmg would kill him. With a disc priest keeping a shield up on him? No danger anymore. No other healer provides that security).

So yea. 4 Healers, 5 with disc+fistweave if your healing is lacking, 3 with disc atonementing if you've got good healers - assuming exact same situation as we're in now (which it won't be).

[Tiberria]

And the vast majority for whom setups are going to matter will be 4 healing it, just like the vast majority of 25 man guilds for whom setups matter right now are 5 healing bosses <.<.

I don't think that 5 healing the majority of fights is really the standard. Looking at what we have done over the last two tiers (for the first kill)

4 healer fights (4)- Blackfuse, Garrosh, Norushen (due to the week 1 zerg strat would be 5-6 now)
5 healer fights (6) - Paragons, Horridon, Lei Shen, Sha of Pride, Spoils, Ra-Den
6 healer fights (12)- Galakras, Dark Shaman, Malkorok, Council of Elders, Tortos, Ji'Kun, Durumu, Primordius, Dark Animus, Iron Qon, Twin Consorts, Jin'rokh
7 healer fights - (4) Immerseus, Fallen Protectors, Iron Juggernaut, Megaera
8 healer fights - (1) Thok

We may run more conservative/healer heavy than other guilds at our progression level (because we rarely hit DPS walls), but 17 of 27 fights the last 2 tiers (63%) used more than 5 healers for progression. We only ran less than 5 on 3 fights really (Norushen doesn't really count because it was redesigned after week 1).

Running less than 4 healers in a 20 man would be underhealing a fight (in a raid size to healers ratio) more than 4 healing a 25 man would be today. It's probably not going to happen that often. Fights that would be 6 healed today will be 5 healed in 20M and fights that would be 5 healed will be 4 healed in 20M. Watcher also said during the Q@A that 5 healers is their design target for 20 man, with some fights going down to 4.

[Danshot]

it sounds like raid utility will be even more important

poor hunters and mages