Wan Jia? (Female Lich King cosplay?)

[Mormolyce]

P.S. I would've voted for either the Garona cosplay (I'm biased I'll admit), the two Barbarians (not even counting the proposal, they were an excellent cosplay pair and the best of the D3 Barb cosplays IMO) or maybe the That Which Has No Life. Frankly all the cosplays were great though.

I was more intrigued by the female cosplaying Wrathion during the Lore panel Q&A. She was so terribly cute.

She was great yeah.

[Brubear]

I'm not doing any cosplay with you, you seem very uptight. But since you say that, why would you be ok with me wearing a gstring but not a girl?

See above where I point out that was a joke.

I suggested it to because the image of me dressed as Alexstraza would serve to show how silly they way females are often portrayed in fantasy settings are.

This photographers work does the same thing by having men do classic pin-up poses.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/clickan...th/5658642294/

I seem very uptight because I'm having a discussion with someone about a topic with which we disagree and it's via text. Inflection doesn't always convey well for me via interwebs. I could give you the atypical spiel of "you'd think otherwise if you knew me, etc, etc" but I'm sure we've all heard it all before and the odds of us actually meeting are fairly slim. Plus it's late and I'm tired.

I still think the Tuskarr should have won. That costume was spot on and is about as close to looking like a tuskarr as you can get without some Hollywood FX-budget behind you.

[Mormolyce]

But he said "a woman isn't free to show off her own body of her own accord at a cosplay contest", that IS sexist.

Saying "it's tacky and attention seeking" isn't.

That's not sexist so much as just fucking stupid.

- - - Updated - - -

See above where I point out that was a joke.

I suggested it to because the image of me dressed as Alexstraza would serve to show how silly they way females are often portrayed in fantasy settings are.

This photographers work does the same thing by having men do classic pin-up poses.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/clickan...th/5658642294/

I seem very uptight because I'm having a discussion with someone about a topic with which we disagree and it's via text. Inflection doesn't always convey well for me via interwebs. I could give you the atypical spiel of "you'd think otherwise if you knew me, etc, etc" but I'm sure we've all heard it all before and the odds of us actually meeting are fairly slim. Plus it's late and I'm tired.

I still think the Tuskarr should have won. That costume was spot on and is about as close to looking like a tuskarr as you can get without some Hollywood FX-budget behind you.

That picture is funny, but you know apart from the cheesecakey tone of that kind of photography, women's posing is designed to accentuate the female form, that's why it looks ridiculous on men. You could get women to pose like Calvin Klein models and it'd look ridiculous too.

Who am I kidding, it'd be hot.

[Bryrida]

Do you know why they dismiss them because of the size of their breasts? Because it's a male fantasy. Think about a toned, fit women. How many of them look like the cast from Dead or Alive? When a girl is fighting, how many of them contort their bodies to thrust their ass and chests out like Catwoman and Psylocke are drawn as? They take issue with the fact that they can almost never make a compelling female character without turning the sexy dial up to 11. You cite the way men are portrayed in video games but it's the exact same thing. The way both men and women are portrayed in these video games is the male fantasy of them, not the female one. Seriously, I can count on one hand how many female gamers I've met that would take a Kratos over a Nathan Drake.

Honestly? I wish they WOULD make more games with men portrayed the same way females usually are. Given them exaggerated bulges on their crotch and have them contort themselves into action poses where they thrust their ass and crotch at the game in physically impossible ways. Have them wear plate mail that is a g-string with high-heeled boots and a corset. Maybe then people would realize just how ridiculous a lot of these games are.

But a lot of women LIKE playing as the sexy characters. Dead or Alive is another example of the characters mainly being eyecandy and it isn't very diverse BUT the female characters have NO LESS STORY than the male characters. The other poster said there's "nothing but" female characters like that, which isn't true at all. I used examples like classic Lara Croft but let's say Taki from Soul Calibur or Nina Williams from Tekken or you're example, Catwoman (which happens to be my favorite DC character). They're all strong, sophisticated badasses that get hell just because they're sexy. And the male's fantasy of a male character they project themselves as IS attractive to a lot of women. I think most women would rather have a guy flexing with big muscles in a tank top and jeans than wearing high heels and a G-String while blowing kisses.

And I really hate how people act like masculinity is superior to femininity. Like "Oh my god that character's wearing makeup? That's so sexist!" Well what's wrong with makeup? Maybe the dude characters are sexist because they don't get to wear makeup, they're missing out.

I'm just saying that there's nothing wrong with sexy characters. I like diversity and even though I like the sexy characters, I hate it when games are like Dead or Alive and all of the women are sexy, I feel less individuality in my character. I just think there should be games about non-sexy characters AND sexy characters (which there is) without people complaining. I NEVER talk about Metroid and say "OH GOD SHES SO NOT SEXY, THAT SUIT IS SO BULKY AND UGLY I WISH SHE WAS IN A SEXY OUTFIT!", but I constantly see people from the other side saying "OH GOD LARA CROFT IS A SLUT! SHE SHOULDN'T BE WEARING SHORTS, SHE'S A MINDLESS SEXPOT!"

I'm not that shallow, I like sexy characters but they also have to be tough, confident, intriguing and independent for me to like them.

Good for you. I mean it, I'm not being sarcastic or condescending. I literally mean that I'm glad that you view it that way. But I also urge you, if you haven't already to really read up on the topic. And I'm not talking about all the opinion fluff pieces with people screaming "OMG Why you hate woman!? All games with men as the main character are sexist! They have you your midriff! Boycott!", I'm talking about the medical journals, the studies, the articles and peer-reviewed essays. Read about how ingrained it is in our society that the majority of people are at the unconscious incompetence level of consciousness (it's a psychology term) both those who are sexist and those who aren't, male and female. They don't even realize there's a problem, and a lot of the ones who do are stuck in denial that it's actually an issue once they're made aware of it.

It's not that the majority of people hate women and think they don't deserve to be treated as human beings, it's just that this is the society they are born into so they don't even realize there's a different way to look at it.

But I just STILL don't see how it's sexist. What if what you thought was cool about male characters, let's pretend you thought dudes in loin clothes and leather harnesses that flexed their muscles were badass, you're wrong to think it's cool because women looking at it might get turned on? It still just doesn't make sense to me. And there are a lot of people that appreciate someone for being attractive but STILL doesn't think of them in a demeaning way.

You know what most men would do? Not give a flying frig. If you gave me some character action game with a male lead who wore a slingshot thong and had massive balls you know what I'd ask?

"Can I do air combos by slapping people around with his nuts?"

LOL That's so true. My brother plays as male characters and I could totally see him saying something like that. He showed me a forum that was making fun of a Sorceress for having big breasts by showing a barbarian with a HUGE bulge and he said something like "That would be so awesome to play as!"

[icausewipes]

Somebody give her a sandwich

Add a side of hips and ass too.

[Sigmar]

And how do you propose we change that? Because I'm arguing for the way proposed by many experts in the field.

Hey, you as a specific individual didn't notice that way, good for you. Clearly that means absolutely no one else did, either. In fact I'm willing to bet that, since you and others in this thread focused on her costume accessories and not her body that 90% of the people didn't! Yay statistics!

Funny, I wasn't trying to shame you at all. I actually only used your name because I (guessed) that you were a male and so where the first name that came to my mind. I also didn't choose you because I thought you'd make a good-looking girl. I sure as hell wouldn't make a good-looking girl. That's part of the joke and was an actually light-hearted comment.

Male Power Fantasy is also a term used by psychologists and medical professionals. Do you really think that all of the people decrying this sort of portrayal of women don't also take issue with the way men are portrayed? Because most of those you would deem feminist that I know do. As in have actively stated such.

If it was one game? Sure. Now imagine that it's 70-90% of the video games, comics and movies. Still think they wouldn't care? Think they wouldn't start complaining then?

Most women I know don't care. They're also gamers as well. Most guys I know wouldn't care either. The people in my social circle aren't obsessed with sexuality as some horrible evil. When they see a character male or female not wearing much we don't judge them by their outfits. We judge them by their characters, their motivations, their actions. That's what mentally healthy, sexually unrepressed individuals do. Sure there will be discussion of character aesthetic but normal people don't lose their shit over someone's clothing and how much skin it shows. To view a character that way alone and not holistically shows a person is shallow in terms of their experience with media.

Anyway, it's 5:30 AM and I need to get some sleep. Feel free to keep fretting over this though. I'm just happy to not be as sexually repressed as some people (read: like you).

[finskee]

I suggested it to because the image of me dressed as Alexstraza would serve to show how silly they way females are often portrayed in fantasy settings are.

Not if you were hot. Like the guys in 300 for example. If you looked like that you would not be silly, you'd be hot. Girls would like it.

This photographers work does the same thing by having men do classic pin-up poses.

That is just trying to be silly. Half naked firemen in a calender sells great and makes a lot of money for charity because... again... women like hot guys.

I seem very uptight because I'm having a discussion with someone about a topic with which we disagree and it's via text. Inflection doesn't always convey well for me via interwebs. I could give you the atypical spiel of "you'd think otherwise if you knew me, etc, etc" but I'm sure we've all heard it all before and the odds of us actually meeting are fairly slim. Plus it's late and I'm tired.

Naw pretty sure you're uptight.

I still think the Tuskarr should have won. That costume was spot on and is about as close to looking like a tuskarr as you can get without some Hollywood FX-budget behind you.

Ok, its not like I didn't like the tuskarr it was cute, but no it was NOWHERE CLOSE to hollywood FX-Budget level. LOL her pants fell down when she crossed the stage, and it was just a furry, probably got a few nerds hard too.

[Mormolyce]

Funny how we're having this heated debate about women dressing up as idealised sexy women but nobody raises an eyebrow about guys dressing up as rippling beefcake Barbarians and sexy badass ninjas.

People like to dress up as exciting fantasy figures, end of.

LOL you just gave me my costume idea for next year's blizzcon.

I would seriously love to see that!

[Sigmar]

Funny how we're having this heated debate about women dressing up as idealised sexy women but nobody raises an eyebrow about guys dressing up as rippling beefcake Barbarians and sexy badass ninjas.

That's the radical feminist "male power fantasy" double standard I mentioned. Radfems like their beefcake and prettyboys after all.

Ok, had to chime in with that. Going to zonk out now.

[Bryrida]

I'm defending the female Arthas, but I'm just saying it's not objectifying or demeaning, for personal taste I did like the Tuskarr costume the most lol.

[Brubear]

But a lot of women LIKE playing as the sexy characters. Dead or Alive is another example of the characters mainly being eyecandy and it isn't very diverse BUT the female characters have NO LESS STORY than the male characters. The other poster said there's "nothing but" female characters like that, which isn't true at all. I used examples like classic Lara Croft but let's say Taki from Soul Calibur or Nina Williams from Tekken or you're example, Catwoman (which happens to be my favorite DC character). They're all strong, sophisticated badasses that get hell just because they're sexy. And the male's fantasy of a male character they project themselves as IS attractive to a lot of women. I think most women would rather have a guy flexing with big muscles in a tank top and jeans than wearing high heels and a G-String while blowing kisses.

And I really hate how people act like masculinity is superior to femininity. Like "Oh my god that character's wearing makeup? That's so sexist!" Well what's wrong with makeup? Maybe the dude characters are sexist because they don't get to wear makeup, they're missing out.

I'm just saying that there's nothing wrong with sexy characters, I like diversity and even though I like the sexy characters I hate it when games are like Dead or Alive and all of the women are sexy, I feel less individuality in my character. I just think there should be games about non-sexy characters AND sexy characters (which there is) without people complaining. I NEVER talk about Metroid and say "OH GOD SHES SO NOT SEXY, THAT SUIT IS SO BULKY AND UGLY I WISH SHE WAS IN A SEXY OUTFIT!", but I constantly see people from the other side saying "OH GOD WHAT A SLUT! SHE SHOULDN'T BE WEARING A CATSUIT, SHE'S A MINDLESS SEXPOT!"

I'm not that shallow, I like sexy characters but they also have to be tough, confident, intriguing and independent for me to like them.



But I just STILL don't see how it's sexist. What if what you thought was cool about male characters, let's pretend you thought dudes in loin clothes and leather harnesses that flexed their muscles were badass, you're wrong to think it's cool because women looking at it might get turned on? It still just doesn't make sense to me. And there are a lot of people that appreciate someone for being attractive but STILL doesn't think of them in a demeaning way.

There is nothing wrong with being turned on by someone being sexy. That's not the issue that I've been talking about. The issue is when them being sexy is the main driver of them as a character.

In no way do I think masculinity is superior to femininity. I did theater and am no stranger to wearing make-up, I've painted my nails and played Barbies with my little nieces. There is nothing wrong with being feminine or sexy. The problem people have is when that becomes the main focus or driving force behind the character/person. That's when it goes from being sexy to objectification.

I think the Conan portrayal of men is equally silly and objectifying (objectification isn't strictly sexual). It draws the focus of the character into being "Me man. Me strong and kill you now" /flex. I want to be drawn to my characters because of their personalty, the attention to detail, when I feel that the creators actually put some effort into trying to make them feel like a developed character and not just a Adonis with a backstory tacked on.

Just curious, why do you think that a lot of female fantasize about being that sexy female character? How many of them do you think view themselves as not being that sexy or being plain/average?

[finskee]

I would seriously love to see that!

I'm gonna start working on it right away, I love sylvanas, and unlike these other guys, I'm skinny, 150 pounds, tight, and tall, so I'm pretty sure I will be the exact gender mirror of sylvanis, with a g-string of course. You'll know me when you see me keep your eyes out.

http://digital-art-gallery.com/oid/2...igital_art.jpg 1 million points of epic.

[Brubear]

That's the radical feminist "male power fantasy" double standard I mentioned. Radfems like their beefcake and prettyboys after all.

Ok, had to chime in with that. Going to zonk out now.

Yep, the radical feminists like their double-standard. Just like the sex-crazed male oppressors also like their double-standard. But the extremists on both sides don't represent the position of either side of the debate, that's why they're the extremes. It's kind of like how radical jihadists don't represent the majority of mulisms, fundamentalist christians don't represent most christians and teenage anarchists don't represent most liberals.

If you talk to most regular feminists, most of them will agree that both portrayals are ridiculous.

[Narveid]

I guess she ran out of time, so she could only make half of it .. That's totally it XD

[Jessicka]

Can I just mention that Blizz guy dressed as Drago from GoT? He's clearly a total slut, right? You know, because he's a buff guy who took his shirt off and get away with it...

[finskee]

Can I just mention that Blizz guy dressed as Drago from GoT? He's clearly a total slut, right? You know, because he's a buff guy who took his shirt off and get away with it...

Not only that, but Drago is a slut Adonis with a backstory tacked on. (being sarcastic of course, even as a guy, come on, I have to admit he's burning hot).

[Bryrida]

There is nothing wrong with being turned on by someone being sexy. That's not the issue that I've been talking about. The issue is when them being sexy is the main driver of them as a character.

In no way do I think masculinity is superior to femininity. I did theater and am no stranger to wearing make-up, I've painted my nails and played Barbies with my little nieces. There is nothing wrong with being feminine or sexy. The problem people have is when that becomes the main focus or driving force behind the character/person. That's when it goes from being sexy to objectification.

I think the Conan portrayal of men is equally silly and objectifying (objectification isn't strictly sexual). It draws the focus of the character into being "Me man. Me strong and kill you now" /flex. I want to be drawn to my characters because of their personalty, the attention to detail, when I feel that the creators actually put some effort into trying to make them feel like a developed character and not just a Adonis with a backstory tacked on.

Just curious, why do you think that a lot of female fantasize about being that sexy female character? How many of them do you think view themselves as not being that sexy or being plain/average?

A lot of them are average, just how the guys playing as the barbarians with rippling muscles are plain/average. I'm definitely not saying there's anything wrong with being plain/average (or I'd be in trouble!). The cosplayers were completely visual so they couldn't have a backstory or personalities, so you had to judge them completely based off of looks, so I think it's weird that people have grudges against her just because she was sexy. Yeah some might say she was the best just because they personally thought she was hot but I also believe a lot of people thought she looked badass and it's not fair to those people.

I wasn't necessarily saying YOU were against makeup or high heels or anything like that I was just throwing it in with my rant because I'm venting about this topic in general and I've seen and participated in conversations about people saying things like characters were ho's or sexist just because they were wearing makeup and it irritated me.

But I have seen a lot of people pawn off sexy characters instantly just because they're sexy and call them "mindless male fantasies" when they really aren't. Catwoman? Not a mindless male fantasy. Wonder Woman? Not a mindless male fantasy. Classic Lara Croft? Not a mindless male fantasy. Even Bayonetta has her witch powers and stuff. So it really irks me when a character I love so much and appreciate is called sexist and demeaning when I love the girl power types of characters (Amazons FTW).

The Dead or Alive girls, I will admit, are a little much with it and don't have enough diversity (there's nothing really wrong with it but they're still not complex) but if you're against that stuff don't play Dead or Alive, there's plenty of other fighting games around with more diverse characters (and better gameplay lol). Oblivion and Dragon Age are HELL to create a sexy character in but I don't go on the forums complaining about it, I just make due or go play a different game.

[dope_danny]

Yeesh thats not great. Theres something about "slutty X" costumes that always seems so pandering and greasy. Hot isn't the word i'd use. Maybe 'desperate' comes to mind first?

[finskee]

Yeesh thats not great. Theres something about "slutty X" costumes that always seems so pandering and greasy. Hot isn't the word i'd use. Maybe 'desperate' comes to mind first?

Wow, you're saying she's pandering, greasy, and desperate. Wanna say that to her face? I mean what does that make you for saying that? Mean? Judgemental? Righteous?

[Bryrida]

Yeesh thats not great. Theres something about "slutty X" costumes that always seems so pandering and greasy. Hot isn't the word i'd use. Maybe 'desperate' comes to mind first?

I'm pretty sure she didn't dress like that to hook up with a random guy at BlizzCon.