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  1. #1

    Demonic Servitude and Demonology

    I was thinking about this new talent and am wondering how this spell is going to work with demonology spec. I mean with the possibility of having a permanent infernal/doomguard why would we ever use our wrathguard/infernal. A big part of being a demonology warlock is the perk of the exclusive stronger pet and with this talent it seems like we lose that. I don't know though, I may be wrong with this thinking and maybe someone could help me out in explaining it to me.

    I also was wondering what will happen to our temporary pet spells infernal/doomguard or abyssal/terrorguard. they are somewhat of a dps increase are they not? so choosing this talent do we lose them?

  2. #2
    Unless it means 2 Demons at the same time. Seems like a poorly thought out talent.

  3. #3
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Or how would it interact with sacrifice? all the 100 talents looked very last moment thrown together, many of them will probably change a whole lot.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by DrIvoRobotnik View Post
    Unless it means 2 Demons at the same time. Seems like a poorly thought out talent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Or how would it interact with sacrifice? all the 100 talents looked very last moment thrown together, many of them will probably change a whole lot.
    yeah i mean that's kinda the reason i made this post because i noticed everyone going, "zomg!!! perma doomguard/infernal awesome!!!!" and yeah it is awesome yes, but what kinda synergy does it have with the rest of our talents/specs? is it gonna actually be a dps boost?(not that that's all that matters)

    it still is very very early on to freak out about this one way or another, like you've said thelxi most of the talents we saw will probably change for all classes so hopefully we see some good stuff coming our way. just hope the warlock community looks at the talents from every standpoint. because although demonic servitude does seem like a neat ability it would need tons of work to make sure it works out well.

  5. #5
    why should it be a dps loss? they just need to boost its damage that much that it´s as strong as the other 2 talents. you can be sure that they won´t use the exactly same dps model of the 10min CD doomguards/Infernals version.

    Regarding sacrifice: just take a look at soul link. they buffed the HP by 20% while using sacrifice and soullink. something similar could be while using those two talents.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyna View Post
    why should it be a dps loss? they just need to boost its damage that much that it´s as strong as the other 2 talents. you can be sure that they won´t use the exactly same dps model of the 10min CD doomguards/Infernals version.

    Regarding sacrifice: just take a look at soul link. they buffed the HP by 20% while using sacrifice and soullink. something similar could be while using those two talents.
    oh i'm sure they're are ways they would come up with to make sure the talent works, but you never know it's blizzard and sometimes not purposely they forget things. I mean with so many other class talents to look at and balance its not impossible.

    what completely confuses me is blizzards way of going about things like this. for instance didn't blizzard get rid of or change certain spells because of unneeded complexity or because they're were too difficult to balance. also in MoP they wanted talents to not be dps increases yet many of the new ones are. i don't know hopefully it all works out when the time comes.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome
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    Why are you talking about what dps each talent does when the game is in like.. friends and family alpha? They're just ideas for cool talents so far.
    And I have to say, perma doomguard is pretty f-ing cool.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by login View Post
    I was thinking about this new talent and am wondering how this spell is going to work with demonology spec. I mean with the possibility of having a permanent infernal/doomguard why would we ever use our wrathguard/infernal. A big part of being a demonology warlock is the perk of the exclusive stronger pet and with this talent it seems like we lose that. I don't know though, I may be wrong with this thinking and maybe someone could help me out in explaining it to me.

    I also was wondering what will happen to our temporary pet spells infernal/doomguard or abyssal/terrorguard. they are somewhat of a dps increase are they not? so choosing this talent do we lose them?
    Nobody can say yet what minion damage is gonna look like at level 100. I reckon minions will work like single target doomguard, multi infernal and if immune to fire you use fel again. The rest of the minions will resume there natural roles

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    Why are you talking about what dps each talent does when the game is in like.. friends and family alpha? They're just ideas for cool talents so far.
    And I have to say, perma doomguard is pretty f-ing cool.
    Its never too early to start brainstorming how our new proposed talents may form synergies with our specs and talents.

  10. #10
    Right now the new talents are really problematic... Making a doomguard and infernal permanent is fine BUT blizz needs to figure out things like will the infernal's aura always be on or will it cleave? Does the doomguard just act like a big fancy imp or does he cast say cripple? At the very least its another bind for another special pet ability. Or it gets none and its just passive damage tied to a pet who can bug out, despawn, die, or do stupid stuff....lets be honest blizz track record of pets vs interesting encounter mechanics isn't exactly great.

  11. #11
    Chances are it will be awesome, till ghostcrawler sees it and he will nerf hammer it till its useless

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulzar View Post
    Its never too early to start brainstorming how our new proposed talents may form synergies with our specs and talents.
    True. Plus, this expac will come out faster than we think.
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DrIvoRobotnik View Post
    Unless it means 2 Demons at the same time. Seems like a poorly thought out talent.
    Knowing blizzard it is either two demons or the doomguard will be buffed

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  14. #14
    I'd rather pick GoSac and Perma Meta.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Demonology's Felguard/Wrathguard pet is only stronger on AoE, not really that much better on Single target.

    my guess is you will just play with Infernal/Abyssal for AoE and Doomguard/Terrorgaurd on single target and be happy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    lets be honest blizz track record of pets vs interesting encounter mechanics isn't exactly great.
    it isn't horrible either, the fact is they do indeed fix mistakes and improve their designs and AI over time. have a little faith, and always provide feedback in the official forums!
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  16. #16
    The following is speculation:

    To use Demonic Servitude, you are giving up your 10 minute cooldown spell + another level 100 talent.

    Thus, I assume that Demonic Servitude will provide a possible DPS increase similar to the DPS contribution of an averagely-used 10-min cooldown guardian combined with the intended DPS contribution of the level 100 talents.

    For example, say Summon Doomguard (the 10 minute cooldown that lasts for 1 minute/17 doombolts) is intended to provide 5% of a warlock's overall damage in WoD.

    The other level 100 talents (Chaotic Resources and Cataclysm) are also balanced around a 5% share of a warlock's average overall damage.

    This means a warlock who doesn't use Summon Doomguard or another level 100 talent will be doing about 90% of the damage of a warlock who IS using those abilities.

    Thus, Demonic Servitude could provide about 11% bonus overall dps (by way of increased pet damage or stronger pet abilities) and theoretically be balanced.

    If pets are supposed to contribute 20% of a warlock's damage, then this means Demonic Servitude pets can do about 55% more damage than other pets and be "balanced."

    This is just a quick and inaccurate example, but it is what I imagine the designers think about when balancing the talents.

    If the designers wanted the Grimoires to play nicely with Demonic Servitude, they'd need to increase the value of Sacrifice's buff when you have Servitude, similar to the way Soul Link increased max HP. Also, GoService would probably give two more possibilities with DS: Grimoire: Doomguard and Grimoire: Infernal. (I hope this is the case, it seems fun.) GoSupremacy could pretty much stay the same, although the Abyssal and Terrorguard would need better combat stats similar to the other Supremacy pets in order to maintain "balance."

    Of course they might not do this and just leave some talents as slightly less optimized with each other, as long as the performance difference is relatively small.

    For the record, based on the current information, I'm going to take Demonic Servitude + GoService on my Demonology warlock in WoD. This is purely based on whim and not really selected for maximum efficiency.
    Last edited by Zargul; 2013-11-13 at 04:30 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zargul View Post
    The following is speculation:

    To use Demonic Servitude, you are giving up your 10 minute cooldown spell + another level 100 talent.
    Why to people keep on saying this? Yes we are giving up one of the other 2 talents, but not the 10min CD on Doomguard. We are getting a Permanent Doomguard. How is that losing the 10 min CD? We are getting it without the CD, not losing it.

    What I was more curious about is whether or not we lose our original minion (ie. felguard) or we get to have both out. Don't think I've read that anywhere.
    Last edited by Klavarnae; 2013-11-13 at 06:03 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Klavarnae View Post
    Why to people keep on saying this? Yes we are giving up one of the other 2 talents, but not the 10min CD on Doomguard. We are getting a Permanent Doomguard. How is that losing the 10 min CD? We are getting it without the CD, not losing it.

    What I was more curious about is whether or not we lose our original minion (ie. felguard) or we get to have both out. Don't think I've read that anywhere.
    They havn´t said anything about that afaik, but since it´s a permanent pet its muck likely that it will be controllable and therefore replacing the "normal" pets. it´s just like felguard when choosing demonology.

  19. #19
    I already see GoSup and DServitude being a potential OP combo.

    I also see GoSac getting gutted or removed, seeing how it's useless now that having it removed will not affect anything much.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Jawless Jones's Avatar
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    maybe it will be the old doomguard? perhaps with some QoL improvements like no channeling on Rain of Fire and instant War Stomp

    dunno about the Infernal tho
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