Would you rather die or have your mind uploaded onto a computer?

[vindicatorx]

Seriously I need to stop clicking on thread titles when I know exactly which half wit would post it. I would upload that way a piece of me is still around.

Damn it putting them on Ignore does not hide their threads

[Grummgug]

Too bad the copy on the computer wont be you anymore. It is just a copy and the original you dies anyways.

This happens anyway. The cells in your body die and are replaced. The "you" that existed 15 years ago? That person DIED. YOU were never actually there. You have that person's memories, but you are a COPY, in a process we call "aging".

[Sole-Warrior]

MIND UPLOADING DOES NOT SIMPLY MEAN SIMPLY COPY, but it could mean gradual integration with an alternative medium beyond biology!

If you just copy and destroy THAN original organism, you run the risk that the copy won't be mind uploading of your mind and destruction of that organism, you will have a clone. If the original organism is still retained along side the copy, your consciousness is not really transferred, you just have a clone. The method of copying one's signatures, patterns, and information of one's brain and destroying the original copy is classified as (destructive mind uploading) and to my knowledge, I have never heard or read of any transhumanist that suggest such a method as the best rout to take. Gradual integration and transition to an alternative medium is a sounder method of uploading (assuming we get all the preliminary research and goals accomplished). The alternative medium can be stored in a database in some guys safe, or placed into a robot.

In the future when we master the understanding of consciousness and merging with artificial intelligence, (assuming that's possible) I plan through gradual integration with alternative medium gradually transition my entire body and brain to nanotechnology that's not biological. In theory, with such technology, I can optimize my intelligence IQ, and memory far beyond what I am now, my consciousness what I have now will simply be transferred to an alternative medium..

If you are conscious, the computer is protected, you live in a super realistic simulation, this fate will still be better than going into the unknown... but it does raises some scientific problems. Is that copy in the computer really you? In order for mind uploading to be practical we must understand all the fundamentals of consciousness, and so far, we are not done with our preliminary research. It will take another 10-20 years to fully reverse engineer the brain.

To those who hit the "rather die" option, you do know when we have the technology to move your consciousness into a special type of computer, we can place that computer into a robot body that could be made to look exactly like a human, be stronger, and healthier than a human right?

On consciousness, I find a pretty neat theory on consciousness here.






again his theory is controversial, but so far it's (At least in my opinion) the best theory on consciousness out there. In 5 years or so we will know for sure or not if this is true or not. But it will not be the end of understanding the brain, not by a long shot.

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This happens anyway. The cells in your body die and are replaced. The "you" that existed 15 years ago? That person DIED. YOU were never actually there. You have that person's memories, but you are a COPY, in a process we call "aging".

No idea what you are talking about, wheres your evidence before you make such claims. who WE are is our consciousness.

[shimerra]

No idea what you are talking about, my consciousness is still the same consciousness that I was at age 5.

Your body replaces all it's cells about every 7 years. Seven years from now no cell in my body that exists today will be in my future self.

[Sole-Warrior]

Your body replaces all it's cells about every 7 years. Seven years from now no cell in my body that exists today will be in my future self.

Your brain's processes of restoring neurons known as neurogenesis is much slower than 7 years. And again, we don't yet know the fundamentals of consciousness, it's still a hot topic in scientific debates. Consciousness could and is probably beyond simply materialism. It could be a continuous pattern and/or system of quantum states that exist within our brain. What WE are is possibly simply information, quantum information, and just so long as that is protected, we don't get ejected out of our body. Much like the way a river operates, the Mississippi river for example in 12 months won't have the same water as it does now but it will still be the Mississippi river. Our consciousness MIGHT be the Mississippi river while the matter that makes up our bodies and brain are the water molecules that exist in the river.

I need you to give a better definition as to what "I" am or who "you" are. Is who "you" are your consciousness? or the matter that makes up you?

[Kraenen]

Alasuya, your consciousness is just the critical sum of neuronal activity. You can't 'move' your consciousness or 'you' over to a computer, it would just be a copy.

[MatadorMedia]

Think about how much of a genius your mind could become & help the world. 100% worth it.

As long as you can be upgraded with the new technology. It would suck to be stuck in Windows 8 eternally...

[OzoAndIndi]

If it was able to me, my mind could live in a believable simulation of Azeroth and any other place I'd like to live/visit and I can have likewise uploaded or simulated versions of people I care about... Upload me! lol

[Sole-Warrior]

Alasuya, your consciousness is just the critical sum of neuronal activity. You can't 'move' your consciousness or 'you' over to a computer, it would just be a copy.

I was implying a non digital computer, moving consciousness into a digital computer is inadaquet since consciousness is likely more than simply computation. I was implying an alternative medium that can operate like a brain. Possibly carbon nanotubes for example was one such suggestion. Also what qualifies as a computer? Our brains could fall under the definition of a computer depending on your definition of computers? a machine that can compute or calculate? Or brains can make calculations. The definition of computer is broader than a digital object.

The idea of mind uploading is not to copy, but to transition one's brain to another medium that can allow for consciousness to exist. It might not need to be biological. And no there is no consensus that consciousness might not just be a simply sum of neuronal and synapse activity, there's activity within neurons, there is far more research that is done and needed to be done. We have not even come close to fully reverse engineered the brain yet.

[Kraenen]

I was implying a non digital computer, moving consciousness into a digital computer is inadaquet since consciousness is likely more than simply computation. I was implying an alternative medium that can operate like a brain. Possibly carbon nanotubes for example was one such suggestion. Also what qualifies as a computer? Our brains could fall under the definition of a computer depending on your definition of computers? a machine that can compute or calculate? Or brains can make calculations. The definition of computer is broader than a digital object.

The idea of mind uploading is not to copy, but to transition one's brain to another medium that can allow for consciousness to exist. It might not need to be biological. And no there is no consensus that consciousness might not just be a simply sum of neuronal and synapse activity, there's activity within neurons, there is far more research that is done and needed to be done. We have not even come close to fully reverse engineered the brain yet.

You've invented this computer? What do you mean by 'transition' to another medium? What proof do you have to argue that consciousness or "I" is non-material?

[Sunseeker]

It's not out of a fear of death that I would choose the latter, but more a desire to keep living.

[Calzaeth]

I'd go for death, if the uploading kept my consciousness and awareness. Imagine, each second stretching out into near infinity, thanks to the speed at which computing works. Always knowing everything, but never free to actually act on the knowledge, always at the mercy of people with far less knowledge than you.

Give me a whole in the ground, rather.

[Sole-Warrior]

You've invented this computer? What do you mean by 'transition' to another medium? What proof do you have to argue that consciousness or "I" is non-material?

I'm not arguing on either sides, rather that we simply do not have a definitive answer..... YET anyways, Stuwart Hameroff and Roger Penrose believes that it might have quantum mechanics involved in creating and sustaining consciousness while some believe its biological, and some believe it has nothing to do with quantum related functions.
By whether or not it is material or not, I mean that it as in the consciousness *might* still continue to exist even after the body is destroyed according to Stuwart.

By "transition" meaning through gradual replacement of the to the other medium that could operate similar mechanics which allow for continuation of consciousness of one's individual would continue to exist. Similar to the way your body replaces cells and restores with new cells to maintain your arm or your leg, but think of the same method which could be applied to the brain, but with another medium to retain your consciousness within your body.(which MIGHT or might not require quantum mechanics, if this is even possible).

My conclusion is that we the human race don't know for sure if this is possible or not, but for one there is no consensus on what creates consciousness, and the intricacies of how changing our brain to this other medium will work, but it *might* depending on what happens as scientists learn more and more.

We will find the riddle of the scientific aspects of what consciousness is, what explains these "conscious moments" that patients experience during intense surgery and when they are suppose to be unconscious completely, especially when there is no blood flowing to the brain.
I am quite excited and worried as to what we will find out, since this will determine whether mind transitioning is possible or not.

[PACOX]

Too bad the copy on the computer wont be you anymore. It is just a copy and the original you dies anyways.

Do we actually know enough about the human mind to be anything but agnostic on that issue?

[Sole-Warrior]

Do we actually know enough about the human mind to be anything but agnostic on that issue?

The answer is a no.
Sometimes I wish I were born just 20 years in the future so I would already know the riddle of consciousness. Rather than fearing as to whether its possible to transition to an alternative medium or not in the future and get my dreams accomplished.

[Cernunnos]

If by upload to a computer you mean uploading my consciousness into a working cyberbrain housed in a full body prosthetic, then yes. I would upload my mind.

[Dellis0991]

Nope...I'll be ready for that funeral....because when you cross that boundary shit like skynet happens or HAL 9000. o.O

[Kraenen]

The answer is a no.
Sometimes I wish I were born just 20 years in the future so I would already know the riddle of consciousness. Rather than fearing as to whether its possible to transition to an alternative medium or not in the future and get my dreams accomplished.

What riddle?

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I'm not arguing on either sides, rather that we simply do not have a definitive answer..... YET anyways, Stuwart Hameroff and Roger Penrose believes that it might have quantum mechanics involved in creating and sustaining consciousness while some believe its biological, and some believe it has nothing to do with quantum related functions.
By whether or not it is material or not, I mean that it as in the consciousness *might* still continue to exist even after the body is destroyed according to Stuwart.

By "transition" meaning through gradual replacement of the to the other medium that could operate similar mechanics which allow for continuation of consciousness of one's individual would continue to exist. Similar to the way your body replaces cells and restores with new cells to maintain your arm or your leg, but think of the same method which could be applied to the brain, but with another medium to retain your consciousness within your body.(which MIGHT or might not require quantum mechanics, if this is even possible).

My conclusion is that we the human race don't know for sure if this is possible or not, but for one there is no consensus on what creates consciousness, and the intricacies of how changing our brain to this other medium will work, but it *might* depending on what happens as scientists learn more and more.

We will find the riddle of the scientific aspects of what consciousness is, what explains these "conscious moments" that patients experience during intense surgery and when they are suppose to be unconscious completely, especially when there is no blood flowing to the brain.
I am quite excited and worried as to what we will find out, since this will determine whether mind transitioning is possible or not.

I don't find those claims or definitions of consciousness satisfactory...You're essentially just positing ideas for the sake of it? Or are you convinced of this view?

[lopk]

Really off-topic, but I wonder how old OP is. He makes a lot of these "interesting" threads, yet I also remember him making a thread about "your biggest mistakes" and his was recently accidentally purchasing the wrong game (that costed a whopping $20) online with his mom's credit card. Just something to ponder over.

I'd rather die.

[Sole-Warrior]

What riddle?

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I don't find those claims or definitions of consciousness satisfactory...You're essentially just positing ideas for the sake of it? Or are you convinced of this view?

By riddle i mean all the principles of consciousness meaning causation, etc. What mechanics keep us conscious, and I mean all the mechanics within our brain that keeps us conscious. For what we know it could be deeper than simply neurological activity, it might have more to do with microtubule activity within the brain than we originally viewed. It might have something to do quantum coherence and quantum self collapse. It might not. We are looking for the very fundamentals of the mechanics of consciousness. It's possibly deeper than simply the firing of neurons and synapses.

The posts I made on this thread, I was explaining what I meant by "transition" since you asked, and why we do not yet have a definitive answer to all the mechanics of consciousness. And the definition of "mind uploading" and what qualifies as a "computer" and why your post:
"Alasuya, your consciousness is just the critical sum of neuronal activity. You can't 'move' your consciousness or 'you' over to a computer, it would just be a copy."
Your response that you can't move your consciousness to another computer MIGHT or might not be correct in the future, and that you shouldn't make such over sweeping judgement on the issue especially when we the human race currently has much to learn about the mind.

When we reverse engineer the brain, we will be ever closer to understanding what principles and set ups are needed to be replicated to create/sustain consciousness and what does not.

"consciousness" according to the dictionary is "state of being aware of one's surroundings, and being awake". Ability to have personal thoughts. Oppose to the theoretical "philosophical zombie" which could pretend and act like a human but is not really aware of it's surrounding, it's not awake. Or say a rock that just used as a paperweight.

The goal is to find out if it's possible to move this "consciousness" to another medium other than a biological one, and if so, how should it be done?