So how does NON-mythic loot work?

[vudani]

I assume Mythic loot is handled as heroic is now. There were three theories I came up with based on tip toeing around the specifics of hardcore raiding at Blizzcon. Number 1 was pretty much denied on day 2 however.

1. Loot is handled similarly to Flex now. Each character has a separate opportunity to get loot on each boss per week. I wouldn't matter how many runs you did. Meaning guilds with 5 raids are on a more even playing field in terms of ilvl.

2. Loot is done similarly to how it was done in Dragon Soul LFR. Meaning the amount of drops are determined by the raid size. However, once a character kills a boss they may not again receive loot from that boss. This would allow for 5 mains 20 alts on first run to be brought. 5 new mains, 5 old mains, 15 alts on second. 5 new mains, 10 old mains, 10 alts on third and so on. This would still require 5-7 runs on week 1 but it would allow for each player only maintaining 1 alt. I feel like once a character receives a CHANCE on a boss per week it may flag them and not add to the loot total however leading to my number 3.

3. Loot is essentially the same exact thing as it is now. With the exception that bringing someone who has already killed a boss will lessen the chance of you getting loot on a boss. Basically it would let people "Help" friends raids but take away from their total loot. You would still need 5 runs of different alts to be competitive in ilvl for the first 4 weeks.


One other fact that makes me pretty sour is the fact that Heroic and Mythic are different lockouts. This will surely make killing multiple Heroic bosses each week a requirement for pushing tighter dps checks faster. Guilds willing to put in even more time will be able to clear content even faster than this tier by killing Heroic on week 1 and 2. Guilds who do not have the extra raid time will have a hard choice on doing progression or clearing crap content and the only way to judge whether or not to do it is attempting to math our dps thresholds on bosses 7 day guilds killed based on their ilvls at the time. This tier it wasn't so bad because the content was clearly tuned for ilvl 566 and no guild really had to worry about dps checks nearly as much as past tiers due to upgrades. Maybe I missed something that was said about it but I think this is the case?

[deathonabun]

My understanding is Mythic will work like any traditional fixed-size raid with a set Raid-ID, a fixed number of drops, etc.

The flexible raid difficulties, normal and heroic, will simply have the once-per-week loot eligibility. Each boss then will drop gear based on the number of loot-eligible players in the raid. To prevent break-points, there will be a variable number of drops with raid size. So a raid with 10 loot-eligible players might be guaranteed 2 pieces of loot, where a group with 11 loot-eligible players will get 2 drops and something like a 20% chance of having a 3rd item drop. Each player you add on from there increases the chance for that third item to drop until it is guaranteed, and then you get a chance for 4 loots and so on as the raid grows.

[Deleted]

As i understand it:

if you solo a boss, you have 20% chance of an item -> ofc this is not viable now, but when it gets outdated content it might, the expansion after.
if you 2 man: 40%
if you 3 man: 60%
4 man .. 80%
5 man .. you get 1 item 100% guaranteed
6 man .. you get 1 item 100%, and 20% chance for a 2nd item
7 man .. you get 1 item 100%, and 40% chance for a 2nd item
....
10 man .. you get 2 items 100%
13 man .. you get 2 items + 60% for a 3rd
19 man .. you get 3 items + 80% for a 4th
20 man .. you get 4 items
22 man .. you get 4 items + 40% for a 5th
25 man .. you get 5 items.

so every person you add gives you 20% extra chance on an extra item.

[Xintho]

They didn't tiptoe around this at all. Mythic loot and lockout will be done the same way it is currently. The loot will be a group system just like current normal and heroic raids. There is no scaling in the number of players so how can the drops be determined by the raid size when the raid size is set at 20 people? Lockout for Mythic will be like normal and heroic now, you have a set id. Once you kill a boss you CAN NOT go back and help alts or benched people kill that boss. All of this was answered in the main Q&A panel on day two.

tl;dr Mythic works just like Heroic now except it will be 20 people instead of 10/25. This means that most bosses will most likely drop 4 items unless they have the end bosses drop more like they have tried in the past.

[Xeraxis]

You get 1 shot at loot per boss each difficulty. If you have a lockout from a raid you join to assist you do not increase the loot drop nor do you take away from what would have dropped. Also I don't believe they stated that sub 10 people would lower the chance for 2 pieces to drop so know idea where the other poster got the info that soloing a raid would only give you a 20% chance at loot.

[vudani]

Deathonabun thinks option 2.

For the rest of you, I am inquiring about non-mythic loot. Mythic loot and the basics about Normal/Heroic was clear and defined. I am asking about how many alt runs we will need for this and will top guilds be able to gain advantage with 5 runs still?

[Zarandra]

As i understand it:

if you solo a boss, you have 20% chance of an item -> ofc this is not viable now, but when it gets outdated content it might, the expansion after.
if you 2 man: 40%
if you 3 man: 60%
4 man .. 80%
5 man .. you get 1 item 100% guaranteed
6 man .. you get 1 item 100%, and 20% chance for a 2nd item
7 man .. you get 1 item 100%, and 40% chance for a 2nd item
....
10 man .. you get 2 items 100%
13 man .. you get 2 items + 60% for a 3rd
19 man .. you get 3 items + 80% for a 4th
20 man .. you get 4 items
22 man .. you get 4 items + 40% for a 5th
25 man .. you get 5 items.

so every person you add gives you 20% extra chance on an extra item.

Pretty sure if you have less then 10 people its still 2 items static.

[ZeroEdgeir]

Pretty sure if you have less then 10 people its still 2 items static.

Given that it is balanced for 10-25, that is a very strong, and likely, case. The loot scaling works between 10-25, not outside of that scope.

[Weightlifter]

There must be a button for disabling loot, or otherwise people are forced to do the hardest difficulty first.

[Super Kami Dende]

There must be a button for disabling loot, or otherwise people are forced to do the hardest difficulty first.

separate loot lock outs have already been mentioned. 1 piece of loot per boss per lockout

[Chaosturn]

every player is 20% chance, if under 10, 2 is guaranteed and boss doesn't scale under 10 obviously. Was confirmed at blizzcon

[Conjor]

I believe they also mentioned something being able to enable the personal loot system even in Normal / Heroic (for those players that prefer that system). Could just be crazy though.

[purebalance]

Am I missing something when people are talking about Mythic?

They said Mythic is 20 man only not flexible. Or are people getting confused when the OP was talking about normal etc.

[Thalur]

Am I missing something when people are talking about mythic?

They said Mythic is 20 man only not flexible. Or are people getting confused when the OP was talking about normal etc.

OP is talking about normal / heroic, not Mythic.

GC said that the raid leader will have the option to either use master looter or personal loot for normal and heroic. (Remember there is no queuing for either difficulty.) Master looter works as described above, a certain amount of items drop (e.g. 20% chance on a 3rd item for 11 players) and can be distributed manually (not rolled on as in DS). Personal loot works exactly like today's LFR and flex loot. Also, one loot chance per boss, difficulty and week.

Also GC confirmed that each raid will have its own lockout. You can clear LFR, normal, heroic and mythic every week. This also means that there will be no boss skipping in mythic (except wings).

[vudani]

OP is talking about normal / heroic, not Mythic.

GC said that the raid leader will have the option to either use master looter or personal loot for normal and heroic. (Remember there is no queuing for either difficulty.) Master looter works as described above, a certain amount of items drop (e.g. 20% chance on a 3rd item for 11 players) and can be distributed manually (not rolled on as in DS). Personal loot works exactly like today's LFR and flex loot. Also, one loot chance per boss, difficulty and week.

Also GC confirmed that each raid will have its own lockout. You can clear LFR, normal, heroic and mythic every week. This also means that there will be no boss skipping in mythic (except wings).

If this is the sad truth then it sounds like those with obscene amounts of time devoted in alts will yet still have a massive edge in ilvl. I must have misinterpreted the devs distaste for how people did heroic progression. They must have only been referring to skipping hard bosses to kill easier ones. I just wish they could find a reasonable way to not make week 1 alt raids so advantageous without hurting the community of people raiding on multiple toons.

[Xyronic]

I'll give a basic rundown.

LFR - works exactly the same way as it does now.

Normal/Heroic/Mythic - Your various basic options available. There is no personal loot. HOWEVER, on Normal/Heroic (not mythic) you will have the ability to go back and kill whatever bosses you want to help other people out. You will not be able to be assigned loot, however.

[Spiralphoenix]

I believe they also mentioned something being able to enable the personal loot system even in Normal / Heroic (for those players that prefer that system). Could just be crazy though.

Yes, they did say this:

The new Flex loot model will work similar to how Master Loot does today, but the number of drops will scale based on the number of people eligible for loot in the group. The personal loot system won't be removed, you will just have to opt in to it.

The way I understood this statement, is (and this is purely speculation as it is not entirely clear) if you were to have for example a raid of 17 people, and 7 people "opt in" to personal loot, they would have a solo chance at loot like LFR/Flex works today, and the boss would drop loot based on the number of people that didn't "opt in" (so, 10) - and, following the reasonably logical structure of loot chance others have posted, (10 people = 2 pieces, +20% per extra piece per every extra person) - the boss would drop 2 pieces (with 0% at extra piece) and the 7 people that "opted in" would be ineligible for that loot.

17 person raid
10 people under "master loot"
7 people under "personal loot"
= 7 people get personal chance, boss drops 2pcs with 0% chance at extra (first 7 people ineligible for this loot)

17 person raid
14 people under "master loot"
3 people under "personal loot"
= 3 people personal chance, boss drops 2 pcs with 80% chance at extra (first 3 people ineligible for this loot)

17 person raid
16 people under "master loot"
1 person under "personal"
= 1 person personal chance, boss drops 3 pcs with 20% chance at extra (first person ineligible)

Again, this is entirely speculation. It just seems the most reasonable to me based on that vague statement. I could be entirely wrong!

[Aquamonkey]

As i understand it:

if you solo a boss, you have 20% chance of an item -> ofc this is not viable now, but when it gets outdated content it might, the expansion after.
if you 2 man: 40%
if you 3 man: 60%
4 man .. 80%
5 man .. you get 1 item 100% guaranteed
6 man .. you get 1 item 100%, and 20% chance for a 2nd item
7 man .. you get 1 item 100%, and 40% chance for a 2nd item
....
10 man .. you get 2 items 100%
13 man .. you get 2 items + 60% for a 3rd
19 man .. you get 3 items + 80% for a 4th
20 man .. you get 4 items
22 man .. you get 4 items + 40% for a 5th
25 man .. you get 5 items.

so every person you add gives you 20% extra chance on an extra item.

Pretty sure if you have less then 10 people its still 2 items static.

Pmuch what Qwerty said, but the loot drops scales with the number of people eligible for loot on that boss, not # in the raid. So if you have less than 10 people eligible, it will probably scale down to prevent people from exploiting.

[Vayshan]

I assume Mythic loot is handled as heroic is now. There were three theories I came up with based on tip toeing around the specifics of hardcore raiding at Blizzcon. Number 1 was pretty much denied on day 2 however.

1. Loot is handled similarly to Flex now. Each character has a separate opportunity to get loot on each boss per week. I wouldn't matter how many runs you did. Meaning guilds with 5 raids are on a more even playing field in terms of ilvl.

2. Loot is done similarly to how it was done in Dragon Soul LFR. Meaning the amount of drops are determined by the raid size. However, once a character kills a boss they may not again receive loot from that boss. This would allow for 5 mains 20 alts on first run to be brought. 5 new mains, 5 old mains, 15 alts on second. 5 new mains, 10 old mains, 10 alts on third and so on. This would still require 5-7 runs on week 1 but it would allow for each player only maintaining 1 alt. I feel like once a character receives a CHANCE on a boss per week it may flag them and not add to the loot total however leading to my number 3.

3. Loot is essentially the same exact thing as it is now. With the exception that bringing someone who has already killed a boss will lessen the chance of you getting loot on a boss. Basically it would let people "Help" friends raids but take away from their total loot. You would still need 5 runs of different alts to be competitive in ilvl for the first 4 weeks.


One other fact that makes me pretty sour is the fact that Heroic and Mythic are different lockouts. This will surely make killing multiple Heroic bosses each week a requirement for pushing tighter dps checks faster. Guilds willing to put in even more time will be able to clear content even faster than this tier by killing Heroic on week 1 and 2. Guilds who do not have the extra raid time will have a hard choice on doing progression or clearing crap content and the only way to judge whether or not to do it is attempting to math our dps thresholds on bosses 7 day guilds killed based on their ilvls at the time. This tier it wasn't so bad because the content was clearly tuned for ilvl 566 and no guild really had to worry about dps checks nearly as much as past tiers due to upgrades. Maybe I missed something that was said about it but I think this is the case?

Has all been answered in the Q&A. Loot, lock out and everything else will be handled just like it is now on normal/heroic mode. Nothing flexible for Mythic. Probably 4 pieces of loot per boss to be rolled on as group loot, wether you 20man it, 15man it or find a way to solo it. Raid is fixed for a size of 20 people and will be tightly tuned accordingly, same goes for the loot.

[Tojara]

LFR works the same way.

Flex (which is new normal) will be 10-25, static loot starting at 2 for minimum (or below) and rising by 20% chance for each individual person. 14 people would be 2.8 chances at loot, 15 would be 3 and 16 would be 3.2

Normal (which is new heroic) will be 10-25, and basically the same rules as I detailed above.

Mythic is fixed 20 man difficulty, and basically replaces our old heroic 10/25 modes. They haven't mentioned it yet but I assume it will drop 4 pieces of loot, with tier bosses POSSIBLY dropping 5 items.

All of these have separate lockouts, so Tuesdays for a Mythic guild would probably be burn down heroic (normal) then go right into Mythic difficulty. Considering they are going with a less linear model it won't be that bad, but for all intent and purpose Mythic won't enable you to skip around or move the difficulty down to work on a different Mythic boss. Why? Because each difficulty doesn't have a toggle anymore and all of them are separate.

As far as I am aware you can run normal/heroic as many times as you want, but you're only eligible for loot once. They also allow you to CRZ from day 1 with these raid modes, unlike Mythic.

Edit: The fixed loot may or may not be in. They very well could just make it 20% chance per ELIGIBLE person.