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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Thing is Blizz keeps doing stuff for 25 mans and ppl keep refusing to play them Now that they failed to make ppl play big raid size the final move is simply to kill the 10 mans. Tad too drastic imho.
    Not sure if you noticed, but Mythic is 20 and not 20-25.

    25 guilds are getting the same treatment.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    Bigger raid sizes normalize gameplay? What? Smaller sizes normalize it because you can't do as much with less people. It restricts you to certain mechanics. Bigger raid size = more options for mechanics because you have the extra people to use. Too big and you have useless people, which is why they picked 20m and not something massive like 40m.
    Double edged blade.

    Too many people makes the content easy. Vanilla encounters were not hard.
    Not enough people forces less mechanics for fights.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Axethor View Post
    If you want to have fun with friends you still can, that's what dungeons and Heroic Flex are for. They are finally making the hardest tier of raiding for the people who want to raid hardcore. Normalized size means no more balancing act. Bigger raid size means they can plan for the group to have at least one of each class and design encounters around it.

    Bigger raid sizes normalize gameplay? What? Smaller sizes normalize it because you can't do as much with less people. It restricts you to certain mechanics. Bigger raid size = more options for mechanics because you have the extra people to use. Too big and you have useless people, which is why they picked 20m and not something massive like 40m.
    Problem is you get to hardcore content as a casual player as well ... it takes longer, but you get there. And for those 10 man guilds that finished normals and followed it up with heroic content, that option is gone now. Normals last a month or two as a content, no more ... what are you supposed to do after.

    As for the normalization I was talking about gameplay style. In 10 mans your function is broader compared to 20 mans where you are much more specialized.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Problem is you get to hardcore content as a casual player as well ... it takes longer, but you get there. And for those 10 man guilds that finished normals and followed it up with heroic content, that option is gone now. Normals last a month or two as a content, no more ... what are you supposed to do after.

    As for the normalization I was talking about gameplay style. In 10 mans your function is broader compared to 20 mans where you are much more specialized.
    Easy solution. You join a guild running mythics. You realize and understand that if you stay in a 10 man guild you are only fucking yourself. Blizzard isn't forcing you to not adapt and change.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by pallyopness View Post
    Easy solution. You join a guild running mythics. You realize and understand that if you stay in a 10 man guild you are only fucking yourself. Blizzard isn't forcing you to not adapt and change.
    Yeah, but that's the argument. "If you want to have fun with friends you still can ..." Yeah, except, not really.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Yeah, but that's the argument. "If you want to have fun with friends you still can ..." Yeah, except, not really.
    yes you can....join other guilds as a group. I personally know of many 10 mans asking around for groups together to join. People say it doesn't work but what choice do you have. You can either split up and singularly join guilds or give a go at a merger of sorts. Those are your only 2 options if you want mythic. End of story.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by pallyopness View Post
    yes you can....join other guilds as a group. I personally know of many 10 mans asking around for groups together to join. People say it doesn't work but what choice do you have. You can either split up and singularly join guilds or give a go at a merger of sorts. Those are your only 2 options if you want mythic. End of story.
    We gave it a go back in WotLK, it didn't work. Splitting up is the best option ... as OP did it. Some ppl will join 20 man guilds, maybe even together, others will give up. Least painful solution.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Yeah, but that's the argument. "If you want to have fun with friends you still can ..." Yeah, except, not really.
    Except you can. You can take ur ten friends. And add ten more. It's actually benefitting you. Whereas 25's have to wave goodbye to a few of their friends.
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  9. #209
    Whatever happened to raiding alliances? It's not like you all have to be in the same guild in order to raid together.
    Just form your own chat channel and you're set.
    I raided for years in a coalition of guilds.

  10. #210
    My question is why would anyone currently raiding 10 man heroic want to disband this early when they dont know how it is going to play out yet?

    If anything, the transition to gaining 10 extra raiders will be much more smooth than it currently is to get up to the 25 man limit because of flex capability on normal difficulty (in the expansion).

    This is how I see it:

    10 man heroic guild currently knows they now need 10 more to continue doing heroic or "mythic" difficulty.

    10 man heroic guild starts recruiting as word spreads about this change in the game and in the community boards.


    Expansion Launches:

    10 man heroic guild from MoP levels to 100 in the first week. They now have 14-15 solid players and decide to hold their first flex "heroic" mode raid (which would be equivalent to normal mode now). They continue to recruit through the week and next week. They gain 2-3 more solid raiders.

    10 man heroic guild from MoP now has 16-18 raiders. Still not quite enough to do "mythic" difficulty. But chances are, they may not have completed normal difficulty (heroic in WoD), so they still need to go back in and complete it. They take the new players in the flex "heroic" mode, and continue to mesh as a transitioning guild. They recruit a few more this week.

    10 man heroic guild from MoP now has 19-22 players. They all desire to raid. The guild, because it is transitioning and still getting used to eachother's playstyle decide to do a 21 man "heroic" flex raid. They have a few bumps, but manage to down most of the bosses. They recruit a couple more to solidify a core 20 man mythic roster.

    10 man heroic guild from MoP is now a 20 man Mythic WoD guild. They continue to recruit to have solid players, and weed out a few bad apples. They now begin the first week of 20 man Mythic bosses and plan their raids accordingly. Their off nights, they offer "heroic" flex raids to everyone who wants to get some better gear and continue to push for mythic on official raid nights. They can bring up to 25 people in these flex raids, but because the bosses scale they can have less all the way down to 10. And as interest in "heroic" flex wanes because people continue to get geared, those who still have a desire to do it will continue to be able to run as a guild group.

    I think its brilliant.

    As for current 25 man heroic raid guilds, they will have to bench a few more players, but most 25 man raiding guilds have some turnover anyway. This will just solidify what they already have. And those who are not raiding consistantly will have the opportunity to join a 10 man heroic guild transitioning up to the mythic raid size.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Peterpewn View Post
    Yeah sure, but I think people do it too soon instead of actually trying to make the best of this and see how the raids will improve because of this change.
    Thats because I doubt that many people play a video game and think, "I'll do this and hope for the best or I'll make the best I can out of this crap."

    Thats not what video games are for. Hell, gamefly was created just so you wouldn't have to put up with saying, "Guess I got to make the best out of this crap."

  12. #212
    First off, I am sorry your guild disbanded.

    However, I don't understand why you felt it had to be done NOW. There are many months to go before the next expansion arrives. Many things will change by then. Opportunities for your guild that do not exist now, will exist then.

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