Another update from Bashiok about WoD flying.

[TyrianFC]

This has been an over reaction . A terrible one. IMO it's cost them millions of subscribers and it's why the casual player base has had little to no engagement. Really it hasn't been offering "more" it's been about stretching out current content. Christ it's not even consistent design. People don't have enough to do soo let's give them an instant 90 and rush them to 100 asap and then tell them as soon as they hit CURRENT CONTENT slow down. Hurry up and wait.

Your argument is as flawed as it is stupid.

The instant 90 is most suited for people who, in previous expansions, would and can easily fall by the wayside and never even reach it to max level. Blizz has been quoted many times just how high the rate of failure is for people even getting to max level.

Your comment makes it sound like its for people who will just happily rush to 100 and be forced to slow down and be told to 'hurry up and wait'. Haha, not sure if serious. The intended market for insta 90 (which prompted the feature to be brought in) is the players who move at a snail pace already, its just that they'll now be moving at a snail pace through new content instead of content several years old just to see the new stuff that all their friends are playing.

Please stop embarrassing yourself with these sorts of melodramatic comments.

[Maneo]

A big reaction after Cataclysm from the developers was that they wanted people more stuff to do. Removing flying does make content last longer, as you can't skip it all. Perhaps making the world feel a bit more dangerous is a good thing for the general population.

It does no denying that.

The problem is the people that burned through the content and then complained of having nothing to do are going to do it regardless of what mount they are on. They don't view questing as fun they view it as something in the way of the game that they want to play PVP, Raiding whatever.

No flying at max level only hurts the people that want to do the content.

I got to 90 well before the Dread Wastes cause I did every quest I could find. Even after reaching 90 I continued questing all through the areas I had not done and I did so on my flying mount. Having played that area on a ground mount (alt) it is a pain in the ass, I would have never finished it if I had to stay grounded. I would have sat my ass in the city and waited for my ques to pop...

[TyrianFC]

I got to 90 well before the Dread Wastes cause I did every quest I could find. Even after reaching 90 I continued questing all through the areas I had not done and I did so on my flying mount. Having played that area on a ground mount (alt) it is a pain in the ass, I would have never finished it if I had to stay grounded. I would have sat my ass in the city and waited for my ques to pop...

Bullshit you did, if you're talking about the start of mop before the exp nerf. I did every quest too at the start and hit 90 near the end of townlong or just at the start of dread. Not 'well before' as you inaccurately implied.

[Glorious Leader]

Your argument is as flawed as it is stupid.

The instant 90 is most suited for people who, in previous expansions, would and can easily fall by the wayside and never even reach it to max level. Blizz has been quoted many times just how high the rate of failure is for people even getting to max level.

Your comment makes it sound like its for people who will just happily rush to 100 and be forced to slow down and be told to 'hurry up and wait'. Haha, not sure if serious. The intended market for insta 90 (which prompted the feature to be brought in) is the players who move at a snail pace already, its just that they'll now be moving at a snail pace through new content instead of content several years old just to see the new stuff that all their friends are playing.

Please stop embarrassing yourself with these sorts of melodramatic comments.

If the problem with subscriber retention is that people don't have enough to do (which I don't agree with) then it makes absolutely no sense to speed up everythign else in the game and then bring it to an abrupt and screeching halt at lvl 100 content and only at current lvl 100 content.

It's not consistent design. If it's true that people fall by the wayside lvling (which I could see because mists was terrible lvling) then it simple shifts the burden to end game content where they will fall by the wayside at end game content. The high rate of failure will simple end up being at lvl 100 instead of lvl 96. People will of course happily rush to 100, that's more or less the point of giving them a lvl 90 toon and also making the WoD lvling experience faster then it was in mists initially.

[rebecca191]

I actually wanted to go back and finish the quests I didn't do on the way to 90, but honestly I felt so disconnected from everything while stuck on the ground that I can't even remember where I left off. :-/

[Ballack]

Well for people who like flying the constant gain and denial is pretty shitty. I mean my character must be pretty stupid to have forgotten it while having it for the past 8 years and he must be pretty weak overall if he can't actually use it and well will actually feel weaker because of it.

So it hurts your immersion because the lore doesn't fit? Ok, if you feel that way who am I to say it's wrong. It is kind of ridiculous but ok The point is, the developers think flying in general hurts immersion in the leveling/questing process in addition to PVP.

As for channeling all their efforts into other features they really haven't. WoD is feature poor. We aren't actually even getting more dungeons. We aren't really getting any significant additions or innovations hell they were so bereft of ideas they finally relented and gave us player housing. The majority of the expansion seems to be fixes to existing systems that you get weather or not you buy the expansion and well aren't really good selling points. I mean I like what they're doing to gear but *shrug*.

I would be hesitant to say an expansion is feature poor before having access to the beta. You don't know how big a feature those living events out in the world is gonna be. You also don't know what the endgame content beyond raids/dungeons is gonna be (I totally agree about the lack of dungeons btw).
Saying they had no more ideas so they went for player housing is just a moronic statement. The same could be said if they were to go back to trying aerial combat. A similar argument would then be "they have so few ideas they are starting to grasp for straws of the past".

[Glorious Leader]

No flying at max level only hurts the people that want to do the content.

Indeed. The developers seem to be under the impression that you can annoy people out into the world.

[rebecca191]

I don't know if it's too few features but in the end the only one that really pops out to me as something new that I'd personally want to try out is garrisons and that's not NEARLY enough to put up with this no fly garbage.

[Maneo]

Your argument is as flawed as it is stupid.

The instant 90 is most suited for people who, in previous expansions, would and can easily fall by the wayside and never even reach it to max level. Blizz has been quoted many times just how high the rate of failure is for people even getting to max level.

Your comment makes it sound like its for people who will just happily rush to 100 and be forced to slow down and be told to 'hurry up and wait'. Haha, not sure if serious. The intended market for insta 90 (which prompted the feature to be brought in) is the players who move at a snail pace already, its just that they'll now be moving at a snail pace through new content instead of content several years old just to see the new stuff that all their friends are playing.

Please stop embarrassing yourself with these sorts of melodramatic comments.

Uhmm you do recall they said leveling from 90-100 is going to be equal or faster then leveling from 85-90. So unless Blizzard is lying he has very good point.

[Glorious Leader]

So it hurts your immersion because the lore doesn't fit? Ok, if you feel that way who am I to say it's wrong. It is kind of ridiculous but ok The point is, the developers think flying in general hurts immersion in the leveling/questing process in addition to PVP.



I would be hesitant to say an expansion is feature poor before having access to the beta. You don't know how big a feature those living events out in the world is gonna be. You also don't know what the endgame content beyond raids/dungeons is gonna be (I totally agree about the lack of dungeons btw).
Saying they had no more ideas so they went for player housing is just a moronic statement. The same could be said if they were to go back to trying aerial combat. A similar argument would then be "they have so few ideas they are starting to grasp for straws of the past".

No it's got nothign to do with lore, it's the feeling that my avatar in game is weaker then he was before. He hasn't grown in strength. He apparently suffers from Alzheimers and has regressed to the point that he can't perform something he's almost always been able to do at max level. That is of course until some arbitrary number called 6.1 floats in the sky and I have to now also perform a quest (where I didn't before).

It's also true that just on the face of it people do find flying immersive. To get above the world and get a birds eye view soaring high amongst the clouds etc etc.

The announced features for this expansion are indeed poor unless you think they are likely to add more during the beta. It's far more likely they will actually cut things. I don't understand what do you people think the developers are hiding and keeping secret? Arial combat would be innovation and as you point out radically alter the game. Player housing is player housing. They are bereft of any ideas for anything that will rejuvenate a game that is in dire need of rejuvenation. The extent of what they are going to do is regress the game and as others have noted they've decided to thrown innovation out the window.

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I don't know if it's too few features but in the end the only one that really pops out to me as something new that I'd personally want to try out is garrisons and that's not NEARLY enough to put up with this no fly garbage.

It's just very austere in general. Like I would be okay with to few features if they added tonnes of end game content but we get one less dungeon then we did in mists and 2 raids which is what we've been getting since cata (roughly). All the money went into upgrading player models apparently.

[Maneo]

Bullshit you did, if you're talking about the start of mop before the exp nerf. I did every quest too at the start and hit 90 near the end of townlong or just at the start of dread. Not 'well before' as you inaccurately implied.

I hit 90 Townlong, I guess "Well before" is subjective.

FYI foul language doesn't make your arguments any better or make you sound cool.

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I actually wanted to go back and finish the quests I didn't do on the way to 90, but honestly I felt so disconnected from everything while stuck on the ground that I can't even remember where I left off. :-/

Yeah that is why you have to do all the quests. I was luck I hit 90 near the end of Townlong so I knew where to continue once i got my flying back.

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Indeed. The developers seem to be under the impression that you can annoy people out into the world.

That does seem to be what they think.

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I don't know if it's too few features but in the end the only one that really pops out to me as something new that I'd personally want to try out is garrisons and that's not NEARLY enough to put up with this no fly garbage.

Yeah I feel the exact same way. Wife and I actually cheered when they mentioned the Garrisons at Blizzcon. Now she will not be playing and the only reason I will be is cause a friend is picking up the tab for the expansion and the monthly sub.

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All the money went into upgrading player models apparently.

That needed to be done though... have you made a human male you got three face options w/out facial hair (even with it isn't great) you have the hare lip, the downs syndrome guy, and the ever popular owner of Ambercrombie and Finch face...

I only have two male characters my feral druid (he is a cat so it doesn't matter) and my Blood Elf (does that even really count as male) pally.

[Glorious Leader]

That needed to be done though... have you made a human male you got three face options w/out facial hair (even with it isn't great) you have the hare lip, the downs syndrome guy, and the ever popular owner of Ambercrombie and Finch face...

I only have two male characters my feral druid (he is a cat so it doesn't matter) and my Blood Elf (does that even really count as male) pally.

It's debatable how much it "needed" to be done. Do you play world of warcraft for the graphics? or for the actual content? Maybe it was important to modernize them but the game and the models will still look like shit it's a 10 year old game. I mean they said the old world revamp needed to be done in cata as well. Hopefully they prepared themselves better this time. Maybe that's why we get jack shit for expansion launch. They've just got it spread out so their isn't this huge wait.

[Ballack]

No it's got nothign to do with lore, it's the feeling that my avatar in game is weaker then he was before. He hasn't grown in strength. He apparently suffers from Alzheimers and has regressed to the point that he can't perform something he's almost always been able to do at max level. That is of course until some arbitrary number called 6.1 floats in the sky and I have to now also perform a quest (where I didn't before).

This argument is fair enough, but I don't really get why some people are so focused on "I should be getting more and more powerful". Do you think killing Deathwing was harder than beating Kil'Jaeden? A new expansion is a new expansion, green gear of the new area is better than epics from the previous expansion. Is that natural? No it's just a necessity. Item squish might make you feel weaker, so what? Anyways, lets not get into that.

It's also true that just on the face of it people do find flying immersive. To get above the world and get a birds eye view soaring high amongst the clouds etc etc.

This is a fair point. The developers think it's the more utilitarian option to limit flying, to improve immersion overall.

The announced features for this expansion are indeed poor unless you think they are likely to add more during the beta. It's far more likely they will actually cut things. I don't understand what do you people think the developers are hiding and keeping secret? Arial combat would be innovation and as you point out radically alter the game. Player housing is player housing. They are bereft of any ideas for anything that will rejuvenate a game that is in dire need of rejuvenation. The extent of what they are going to do is regress the game and as others have noted they've decided to thrown innovation out the window.

We are moving a bit off-topic perhaps, but whatever. You don't know how big the features are. Also, I'd say garrisons are quite innovative. I'm not necessarily too excited for them but I'm not gonna make a final judgement before I see it firsthand. You are making lots of assumptions here. You don't know making aerial combat would even work. It could ruin the fabrics of the game, and I wouldn't say they are in such a dire situation that they need to take that chance. You may disagree with that, its not exactly set in stone how big of a chance they should take. I think Blizzard has made some huge blunders over the years, this not being one of them.

[Maneo]

It's debatable how much it "needed" to be done. Do you play world of warcraft for the graphics? or for the actual content? Maybe it was important to modernize them but the game and the models will still look like shit it's a 10 year old game. I mean they said the old world revamp needed to be done in cata as well. Hopefully they prepared themselves better this time. Maybe that's why we get jack shit for expansion launch. They've just got it spread out so their isn't this huge wait.

I wouldn't say I play the game for the graphics the game like you said is 10 years old. I do however love transmog, and having my characters look cool. Hell I leveled a pally just so I could get that Judgment set.

It is hard for a character to look cool when the models were done so horrible.

I seriously have this vision of some hideous guy working on the male models, with a mirror in front of his face. Looks at the mirror then the model, the mirror then the model... and says " Perfect"

I am not a great looking guy .. I am old and I am average... but that guy who ever he is the male faces are based off of.... He fell out of the ugly tree and purposely hit every branch on the way down.

[Ballack]

It's debatable how much it "needed" to be done. Do you play world of warcraft for the graphics? or for the actual content? Maybe it was important to modernize them but the game and the models will still look like shit it's a 10 year old game. I mean they said the old world revamp needed to be done in cata as well. Hopefully they prepared themselves better this time. Maybe that's why we get jack shit for expansion launch. They've just got it spread out so their isn't this huge wait.

Did you hear the roar at Blizzcon when they showed the new models? A lot of people are very excited about them.

[Maneo]

Did you hear the roar at Blizzcon when they showed the new models? A lot of people are very excited about them.

OMG I am going to have to totally reassess my place in this world I am agree with Ballack = )

Just kidding man.

[Pann]

Did you hear the roar at Blizzcon when they showed the new models? A lot of people are very excited about them.

Did you hear the roar at Blizzcon when they announced the Annual Pass? I am sorry if you pay $200 plus for a ticket as well as travel and accommodation you are not the most objective person when it comes to Blizzard. So essentially what you are saying is that people that really like Blizzard like something that Blizzard say they will get around to doing... eventually.

[Maneo]

Did you hear the roar at Blizzcon when they announced the Annual Pass? I am sorry if you pay $200 plus for a ticket as well as travel and accommodation you are not the most objective person when it comes to Blizzard. So essentially what you are saying is that people that really like Blizzard like something that Blizzard say they will get around to doing... eventually.

That is also a valid point.

Really off topic though.

What really bothers me is that there will be no flying in current content, I really think this is how they are testing the waters to remove flying all together from future expansions.

[Ballack]

Did you hear the roar at Blizzcon when they announced the Annual Pass? I am sorry if you pay $200 plus for a ticket as well as travel and accommodation you are not the most objective person when it comes to Blizzard. So essentially what you are saying is that people that really like Blizzard like something that Blizzard say they will get around to doing... eventually.

Joke was on them as D3 sucked ass lolol

Well I wasn't really basing my point solely on the Blizzcon reaction, I just mentioned that as an obvious indication that people like it. I've seen no signs of it not being a very popular feature, including this and the official forums. Also, updates on the new player models have been requested over and over since Blizzard announced they were working on them so, I think it's quite fair to say it is a popular feature.

[Maneo]

Joke was on them as D3 sucked ass lolol

Well I wasn't really basing my point solely on the Blizzcon reaction, I just mentioned that as an obvious indication that people like it. I've seen no signs of it not being a very popular feature, including this and the official forums. Also, updates on the new player models have been requested over and over since Blizzard announced they were working on them so, I think it's quite fair to say it is a popular feature.

Yah I just wish they would have announced this no flying thing in front of those fans that spent all that money to attend.... they probably realized one of them would likely take a foam sword upside the bean.