Dire beast or Thrill of the hunt? when using t16 4pc.

[Deleted]

this is probably why he is saying that not only the proc get wasted the use of ToTH and benefit affect you more, in this case having fervor on demand will probably come ahead. this dosnt mean you are wrong, i know you get higher numbers than what you sim for and you are pretty good with ToTH but that dosnt mean your right either.

is something you gota look at it. next week i will try ToTH in every fight as bm since this week i did all SV and compare my own numbers but i bet that ToTH have limited use right now in SoO. def is pretty good for protectors if you cleave 100% of the time as most guilds are doing right now, it actually feels like LFR tbh since you get 2 phases at the same time but fight is so easy now that is a no problem. other than that i could think galakras having ToTH with bm would be nice.

Even when you take into account those situations where you waste a full proc, over the duration of a fight TotH still returns a huge amount more focus then Fervor. And that's not taking into account the dps gain from being able to dump in chunks of 10, which allows you to AS,ES when at medium/low mana instead of CS,ES which would delay ES.

It's all a question of getting used to the playstyle, but your ES uptime should be better with TotH, and that's a meal ticket right there.

[Valkors]

TotH isnt ahead, because you have wasted procs. You cant fire AS and ExS at the same time, and they overlap. You miss out on procs. I normally average 6-8 ExS per proc, and within a millisecond of getting that proc, I also get a TotH proc. Thus, wasted proc by the time I am done using my ExS, recasting my BA, and refreshing SS, TotH has run out.

[mistahwilshire]

DB has simmed and performed better for me in the majority of the fights this tier.

The reality though is that this tier of talents is very well balanced and all three talents have their place this tier. There isn't a "set it and forget it" talent here.

[Pijips]

There is something I really don't understand about Survival, Fervor and ToTH. Most people use the argument that you waste a lot of ToTH charges while spamming ES in LnL chains, but doesn't the same thing happen for fervor? If you were low on focus and used Fervor, almost focus capping you, then got a massive LnL chain, aren't you wasting all of fervor? Surely that is a bigger DPS loss than the ToTH charges?

[Beace]

There is something I really don't understand about Survival, Fervor and ToTH. Most people use the argument that you waste a lot of ToTH charges while spamming ES in LnL chains, but doesn't the same thing happen for fervor? If you were low on focus and used Fervor, almost focus capping you, then got a massive LnL chain, aren't you wasting all of fervor? Surely that is a bigger DPS loss than the ToTH charges?

I find what you're describing to be extremely rare when going with Fervor. Meanwhile it happens regularly with ToTH. Should also keep in mind Fervor isn't just for you, it boosts your pet dmg as well.

But as myself and others have already said, the talents are so close to each other that it's really up to personal preference. Carlaena seems to argue ToTH is a superior choice, but without any proof whatsoever to back it up.

[Yuyn]

TotH is useful in high-AoE situations. Anywhere that Multi-Shot is higher priority than Explosive Shot, you can make effective use of it. But this only happens for a significant portion of about two or three fights this tier (Spoils, Galakras, and maybe Shamans).

Anywhere else, Dire Beast and Fervor are measurably ahead (~1-2% higher overall). In my experience, those two sim almost dead-on even for SV, and Fervor is almost mandatory if you're running with Crows just for making the focus management easier. In short, I haven't run with Dire Beast for SV since offspeccing SV in T14 -- it's just not worth it for the minimal-to-nonexistent theoretical damage increase.

[Inval1d]

TotH is useful in high-AoE situations. Anywhere that Multi-Shot is higher priority than Explosive Shot, you can make effective use of it. But this only happens for a significant portion of about two or three fights this tier (Spoils, Galakras, and maybe Shamans).

Anywhere else, Dire Beast and Fervor are measurably ahead (~1-2% higher overall). In my experience, those two sim almost dead-on even for SV, and Fervor is almost mandatory if you're running with Crows just for making the focus management easier. In short, I haven't run with Dire Beast for SV since offspeccing SV in T14 -- it's just not worth it for the minimal-to-nonexistent theoretical damage increase.

For me TotH sims higher than both other talents by a small margin. Also the argument of dropping TotH when casting chains, your first priority after a long ES chain is not to AS, but rather refresh BA and SS. This is in addition to the last ES costing focus will mean TotH will be up again when you start using AS again in a vast majority of cases.

Speaking from personal experience as well, I just find TotH to be a lot more effective in terms of focus management through out an entire fight, but the talents are so close it really comes down to playstyle preferences.

[Deleted]

There is something I really don't understand about Survival, Fervor and ToTH. Most people use the argument that you waste a lot of ToTH charges while spamming ES in LnL chains, but doesn't the same thing happen for fervor? If you were low on focus and used Fervor, almost focus capping you, then got a massive LnL chain, aren't you wasting all of fervor? Surely that is a bigger DPS loss than the ToTH charges?

If you use Fervor while LnL is off CD then you aren't the smartest hunter out there.

[Pijips]

If you use Fervor while LnL is off CD then you aren't the smartest hunter out there.

LnL does not always proc after it comes off CD

[Perrito]

LnL does not always proc after it comes off CD

right why would you use it when you have LnL up and spamming ES?

ToTH is good for arcane shot, fervor focus return can be used into any shot you desire. it Works with BA, AS, SrS, Revive Pet, ES. the problem that i think carlena focus more is the way how ToTH procs are far more consistent tan fervor CD allowing you to just require focus for just BA, ES, SrS and the ocacionally Res Pet.

[Spl4sh3r]

I am using Thrill of the Hunt because it lets me use Cobra Shot a lot less since Arcane Shot is cheaper. It is especially nice in AoE aswell for Multishot.

[blackpink]

what would you guys consider a small dps gain? For me, Toth is simming about 2k increase but I really hate the playstyle. Is it still worth it to be going toth? (I am all about maximizing dmg so if it's worth it I can just try to master it).

[Dhryke]

Is this only for SV?

BM = Dire Beast
SV = Depends on fight and role in each.

[Yuyn]

For me TotH sims higher than both other talents by a small margin.

What are you simming it with? If you're using Simcraft, be sure you're using 540-5 or newer, as 540-4 and below have the bug that essentially doubles the value of Thrill.

Checking on FemaleDwarf, it seems to heavily favour Thrill, but I'm not sure why -- Simcraft is usually trickier to use, but it's historically been more accurate (as it runs a 'real' simulation, rather than using a lot of averaging). FemaleDwarf shows a 5k DPS gain, yet Simcraft shows a 5k DPS loss.

[ro9ue]

Thrill of the Hunt is passive. 1 less button = winner imo.

[Nemesiz]

Thrill of the Hunt is passive. 1 less button = winner imo.

An extra button to push is not a problem for most players.

Controlled focus gain, great for when you must throw out quick burst in a fixed amount of time / interval = winner imo. ^_^

[eschatological]

despite of being overestimated on a sim, people kept using it because it was yielding good results comparable to the other two, no matter what the sim said. You will see very few hunters who play DB on heroic content, mostly because there's only one ST fight which is Iron juggernaut. for every other fight, both Fervor or ToTH are miles ahead, no matter what the sim says.

Most heroic hunters are using ToTH in SV, and DB in BM, yes. But while SV-ToTH was the clear winner in the previous incarnations of SimC with the error, now BM-DB is slightly ahead.

[Deleted]

Most heroic hunters are using ToTH in SV, and DB in BM, yes. But while SV-ToTH was the clear winner in the previous incarnations of SimC with the error, now BM-DB is slightly ahead.

Survival with dire beast / fervor is showing as top for me with about 200-300 dps difference, then it's marksman and beastmaster is last... I don't see beastmaster and dire beast ahead at all, it's showing as the worst. If i was an orc maybe it would be different?

[Inval1d]

What are you simming it with? If you're using Simcraft, be sure you're using 540-5 or newer, as 540-4 and below have the bug that essentially doubles the value of Thrill.

Checking on FemaleDwarf, it seems to heavily favour Thrill, but I'm not sure why -- Simcraft is usually trickier to use, but it's historically been more accurate (as it runs a 'real' simulation, rather than using a lot of averaging). FemaleDwarf shows a 5k DPS gain, yet Simcraft shows a 5k DPS loss.

I've been relying more on FD recently, as I've been told SimC still has the tendency to overvalue Dire Beast (Double swings and that sort of thing), not sure if that is still the case.

[Sul]

just simmed my toon on FD

Fervor was best
dire beast next at -809.58
TotH last at - 3407.54

pretty conclusive which is best for my toon at this point

I have also been simming it since 5.4 dropped and this is the closest the other have got to fervor --in the past dire beast has been 2-3k below and TotH has been 4k below

edit -- just tried it again at a different latency setting - ( my latency is 200 so I tried it at FDs default of 37 ) and fevor was ahead of both the other two by over 3k ( the other two simmed the same ) so DB is very latency dependant it seams --the higher the latency you have the better DB becomes .
The other thing I just noticed from the low latency sim was that I GAIN over 16k dps at latency 37 then latency 200 --that is absolutely HUGE