When WoD launches with no flying and nothing changes, will you admit being wrong?

[Anzaman]

Flying is a big deal and affects how you do everything in game. I am sure Rebecca191 was planning to return come 6.1 (as I was) until she found out that flying is locked behind a epic (rolls eyes) quest chain. More then likely this quest will involve Battle ground wins or some other PVP BS (to really piss me off) and running raids for some RNG BS item.

And this is based on what?

What if the whole Quest chain is designed to be done alone with one or two Quests to heroic dungeon(s)?

[Maneo]

lazy ppl.. wod is meant to be like vanilla was.. so stop bitching on it

Cause vanilla was so great? I was there and have the unique ability it seems to not look at it through rose colored goggles.

Don't get me wrong Vanilla was great in the respect that is was new (every expansion has mirrored is since so that is no longer the case), it was also the first MMO that was accessible to the casual player, and it had a amazing community. None of these things apply anymore, hell WoW has one of the most toxic MMO communities now.

[rebecca191]

Calling it a "mini legendary" quest and saying you won't be able to get flying quickly in 6.1 unless you played in 6.0, makes me think it's something that will take a while. People will be forced to play without flying for a decent length of time regardless of when they start playing. They could certainly change their mind on this but it really doesn't sound like something you can get done within a day or two of hitting 100 later in the expac, with current plans.....

I mean, I came back in September, so I did the legendary cloak chain with all the catch up mechanics. It took me just under two months and people cursed me because I apparently had amazing RNG and it should have taken longer. So even if it's like half that time it's not really something that sounds enjoyable to me....

None of these things apply anymore, hell WoW has one of the most toxic MMO communities now.

Hey there were toxic people in vanilla too, they just got called out on the server and people avoided them lol.

[Maneo]

And this is based on what?

What if the whole Quest chain is designed to be done alone with one or two Quests to heroic dungeon(s)?

Granted I obviously don't know for sure but being Blizz said it would be akin to the current Legendary (rolls eyes) quest, and that they intend for it to stretch from launch till 6.1 it is a pretty safe assumption.

I really hope they drop the whole solo scenario thing this a a MMO damn it... that and I really wish they would encourage people to group up instead of discouraging it... reduced xp, loot etc do not encourage grouping for quests... but alas that is another issue for another thread.

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Hey there were toxic people in vanilla too, they just got called out on the server and people avoided them lol.

This is true. I have a love hate relationship with LFD/LFR, being as all my toons are DPS I no longer find myself sitting in a capital city spamming trade to get a group, but I absolutely hate that it has given assholes a free pass.

[Pann]

Man its going to be harder to bot well without that flying.

Nothing will change in that respect; they'll either use teleport hacks, as before, or focus in even greater numbers on dungeons like the Botanica and the Halls of Lightning.

[Anzaman]

Calling it a "mini legendary" quest and saying you won't be able to get flying quickly in 6.1 unless you played in 6.0, makes me think it's something that will take a while. People will be forced to play without flying for a decent length of time regardless of when they start playing. They could certainly change their mind on this but it really doesn't sound like something you can get done within a day or two of hitting 100 later in the expac, with current plans.

At the start of Mists of Pandaria -expansion, players were given the first part of the legendary Quest chain, which granted you Crystallized Horror, that part had three (3) Quests and was designed to be the part for that patch.

So if we go and argue between flying "mini-legendary" and Mists of Pandaria's "legendary" quest chain, we need to take in mind the time-frames. Flying is supposed to be a reward for players in patch 6.1 after they've completed it, similar to Crystallized Horror, eh? And it was a raid reward, meant for raiders. Flying on other-hand touches everyone; farmers, achievement hunters, raiders, etc.. so it can't really have parts which involves going into raid and after the rampage of The Lion Roars/Glory to the Horde I don't believe they'd do that mistake again.

Sure I might be totally wrong with it, but it's just speculation at this point.

[Sliske]

Everyone talks about how easy WoTLK heroics were, I have come to the conclusions gamers have short memories. I remember doing those before everyone out geared them and I remember wiping in the Violet Hold and Nexus those dungeons weren't AoE fests till everyone out geared them.

Neither of those heroics were hard. Literally the only thing you could wipe to in both of those heroics combined was the Etheral prisoner guy's overscaled bombs. The nexus heroic hard? Yeah, if you don't know how to play the game even basically. Binding an interrupt or a stun was overkill for such trivial content.

Literally the only thing 'hard' in WoTLK heroics was the trash on the slope heading to the cave in Pit of Saron. There was the feared occulus queues, but really, people left those purely because the time needed to complete the dungeon and the dungeon content itself (which consisted of pressing 11111112222221111111) was far too boring to be worth the 2 frost badges.

Everyone talks about how easy WoTLK heroics were, because WoTLK heroics were notoriously pissweak easy. Hitting 80, the only risk could run into was having no online that wanted to run them. By the time you were decked out in Naxx 10 or 25 man gear, hunters could easily solo and tank heroics without a healer using a turtle.

When i'm charging through MOP heroics as arms in a tank role, doing 500k sustained DPS and doing 90% of the damage done, completeing them in 7 minutes - 10 minutes, i am definately reminded of running through WoTLK heroics chain pulling the entire (if possible) in a 5kish gearscore fury warrior with a shield and a wrathful glad axe.

Don't try to sell WoTLK heroics or any heroics off as anything other than weak, buffer content to get you into enough gear to do raids (Which, i should point out, all of Naxx 25 was cleared in sunwell gear and leveling greens / blues. Almost no player in the original world first clear had any heroic gear at all.)

If you want to talk about TBC heroics then they were a different story but still with the same ending. TBC heroics were basically gear checks and nothing else. Fresh 70? CC 90% of the trash or you die. Full epics and blues? CC about 60% of the trash or you die. Full t4 / t5? CC about 20% of the trash or you die. Full t6 onwards? CC? what is that again?

Cata heroics weren't able to be put under this test, but no doubt it would of came out in the same conclusion. Hitting 85 i got stomped into oblivion in cata heroics as i had kept my WOTLK heroic mentality for 2 years. A few days being at 85 i realised it was nothing more than TBC repeating itself. Being a fury warrior, i was worthless. I had no cc.

Please, for the love of god, never say WoTLK heroics were hard ever again. If you found them hard then it was your own incompetence towards the extreme basics of the game letting you down. The correct phrasing would be to say 'I wasn't very good in early WoTLK, so i remember wiping in Violet Hold and Nexus'

[Maneo]

Please, for the love of god, never say WoTLK heroics were hard ever again. If you found them hard then it was your own incompetence towards the extreme basics of the game letting you down. The correct phrasing would be to say 'I wasn't very good in early WoTLK, so i remember wiping in Violet Hold and Nexus'

What ever.. lol

Again either short memories or you came into WoTLK with some serious gear.

Doing those heroics w/pug in questing and normal dungeon gear wasn't easy, wasn't as difficult as Cata heroics but they sure as hell were not as easy as MoP heroics

If it makes you feel cool to say that they were... Good for you.

Now back to the topic at hand since you got to tell everyone how epic you are.

Flying.

[quras]

lazy ppl.. wod is meant to be like vanilla was.. so stop bitching on it

Man I hope not, I'd like to think WOW evolved instead of digressed to a vanilla state of game play.

There was nothing fun or entertaining about the amount of time you spent running to a quest objecting that took 1 min to complete but 4 mins to get there and back to turn it in.

Thats not fun. If blizzard wants to make a change, how about a change to quest design where it takes quite a bit of time to complete quests but you get there rather quickly. So you can do the more entertaining and fun parts of the game instead of just killing time traveling.

At a minimum, at least let max level players fly. At that point the leveling is over, making them wait 2-4 just seems silly at that point.

[Maneo]

Thats not fun. If blizzard wants to make a change, how about a change to quest design where it takes quite a bit of time to complete quests but you get there rather quickly. So you can do the more entertaining and fun parts of the game instead of just killing time traveling.

Cause that would be hard? <shrug>

Yeah honestly the only people this benefits are the devs

[Deleted]

Cause that would be hard? <shrug>

Yeah honestly the only people this benefits are the devs

True . They will be able to keep being lazy .

[Sliske]

What ever.. lol

Again either short memories or you came into WoTLK with some serious gear.

Doing those heroics w/pug in questing and normal dungeon gear wasn't easy, wasn't as difficult as Cata heroics but they sure as hell were not as easy as MoP heroics

If it makes you feel cool to say that they were... Good for you.

Now back to the topic at hand since you got to tell everyone how epic you are.

Flying.

Oh that's just precious. I, along with the vast majority of WoTLK players found WoTLK heroics easy as piss, but because you found them hard we must all be wrong.

So typical.

Serious gear? You mean sunwell gear? No, actually, i didn't. I came into WoTLK in greens and blues and maybe a t5 epic or two. I didn't set foot in hyjal or BT, so no i didn't have 'serious gear'

I ran those heroics with two backpeddling hunters, a clicking holy paladin and a freshly dinged blood death knight.

You're aware of the fact that your personal skill can make mechanics appear more difficult than what the average player perceives them to be?

I guess your next reply is going to be telling me that i'm an amazing player, as if that some how will beat the fact that, again, the vast majority of the people who played early WoTLK, as well as the vast majority of the people in this thread, will disagree strongly with you and probably flame you for even uttering that WoTLK heroics are or were hard.

I think, again, you're mixing up the difference between an overscaled single boss, mob or spell with the entire heroic being difficult. Lets look at some examples of this:

1. Sarth 3D 25 was pretty hard. This means this particular boss, in this particular setting was hard. This does not make the entirety of that tier hard.

2. Marrowgar was a pissweak boss. This means this particular boss, in this particular instance was easy. This does not make the entirety of ICC easy.

3. Randolph Moloch hits hard in the Stockades. This does not make all classic dungeons hard.

If you want more examples i can probably give you one for every single boss in the game.

Can you see where this is going?

Now i want you to go back through your travels of early WoTLk and find where you died, then correct yourself by saying "X hit hard, but that does not make the entirety of the instance, teir, expansion, game, life.. hard"

I look forward to your 2-5 line sarcastic response that attempts to undermine genuine arguments with sarcasm.

[Mafic]

What ever.. lol

Again either short memories or you came into WoTLK with some serious gear.

Doing those heroics w/pug in questing and normal dungeon gear wasn't easy, wasn't as difficult as Cata heroics but they sure as hell were not as easy as MoP heroics

If it makes you feel cool to say that they were... Good for you.

Now back to the topic at hand since you got to tell everyone how epic you are.

Flying.

I agree.

WotLK heroics were tougher to start out than MoP. However the easier gearing of WotLk than MoP makes it seem like it was easier when people try to remember. Also it was easier to level alts in WotLK because of flying with the tome.

WotLk was the best expansion because it had fun for the casual player and the hardcore player.

[Deleted]

WotLk was the best expansion because it had fun for the casual player and the hardcore player.

I had more fun in MoP and Cata than I had in the entirety of vanilla, TBC or Wotlk.

[Nilinor]

Occulus

That is all <3

[Deleted]

Since we're now talking about Wrath heroics for some reason...

A few heroics in particular were regarded as not a guaranteed success even with any old pug(no LFD then, remember)

Halls of Lightning. Especially Loken and the tightly packed whirlwinding trash before him.
Ahn'Kaket, because of the Spell Flingers doing those high damage nukes, the high burst elemental packs before the cultist boss, and the moderate personal dps check of the final boss.
The Oculus, because drake controls required reading and a bit of coordination on the final boss.

Everything else I would have been happy enough to pug with anyone and not worry about failing, even at launch.
Once Naxx+ gear was standard, only Oculus remained doubtful.

For the people who aren't happy with definition of "hard" being applied to anything short of pre-nerf M'uru, remember I'm just saying these were the dungeons where success wasn't guaranteed with a completely random tradechat pug.

[DeadmanWalking]

THe only thing I will say about this 'mini legendary' to regain flight is that the reason Blizz said they wanted to do this was to make flight feel epic again once you got it, which it will feel epic again... for about 5 minutes and then its business like usual for 16 months. Driving a car without your parents the first time is epic, but after that first ride its just a way to get to work thats so boring that people feel compelled to look at their cell phones until they crash into a car full of nuns and babies.

So if Blizzard is locking it behind a mini-legendary to 'make it feel epic' when you get it back then they have completely missed the mark and underestimated just how people think and feel. MoP had it right when they locked flight behind a real epic quest chain, a quest chain that took me from an invasion of jade forest to a Klaxxi who told me we would not be friends if the old gods came back. It was so epic that it spanned 6 zones and I leveled 5 times!