Heroic Spoils help

[Deleted]

Hey

My guild (9/14HC) are currently progressing in heroic spoils 10 man this reset and we have wiped 60 ish attempts so far and I don't know how to rectify our problems atm....
Most of the wipes have been individual mistakes (breath of fire, standing in crap, bombs) but yet most of our problems seem to be on the mantid side. On Friday's raid, we tried the strategy of pandas>boss>boss> mediums>smalls (friday's raid) til end but at times I struggled to keep everyone alive during the bosses with pheremone cloud when chained with set to blow.

this was Friday's setup
mantid: prot pala, holy pala(me), warlock, combat rogue, surv hunter
mogu: monk tank, resto druid, assass rogue, ele shaman, spriest

On Sunday, we continued with pandas>boss>boss> mediums>smalls and then switched to having pandas>boss> mediums(2 i think)>smalls>boss. The setup is similar except warlock switched with mage, and then mage switched with ele shaman later on to provide guidance/healing cds to support myself. On some of our best tries we managed to get close to 50/50 and yet we still failed to make alloted time. I assumed it was the amber priest healing too much with amber residue and we tried to fix the problem by having DPS being focused on offensive dispelling but we are still wiping to no avail. I don't know whether it's a dps issue/healing issue on my behalf or we not executing the right sequence of boxes.

Sorry I'm a new member at MMO (cant post links:<), but for parses/logs, please go to World of Logs> Realms>English>EU-Argent Dawn> Light and It would be the recent 3 parses.

any help/advice would be greatly appreciated! many thanks.

[Traxion]

I don't think there's a good reason to ever do 2 bosses in a row. You'll want to do pandas>boss> small/meds> boss because your DPS and heals should have cooldowns of some sort available for both, thus making the burn and healing on him easier. We typically do 2 smalls together with the pandas as well since they should all die around the same time with AOE. We also try to keep 1 small up with each boss as well to increase multi-dotting DPS and etc. The only real dangerous times healing wise on mantid is when the boss is out because of his massive AOE dmg. Mantid side should actually be the easier side to deal with IMO. The hunter can also increase his DPS time by popping deterrence at the end of his bombs debuff to avoid having to drop his bombs in a corner (he needs to make sure he's away from the group). He can also detonate any dropped bombs with deterrence as well if the room needs to be cleared.

Overall it's an extremely tight DPS check and gear is probably going to fix most of the issues. Make sure your healers are very aware of their positioning in terms of the sparks that spawn if they get the buff. A single wave will take out about 80% of their health.

[Nemesiz]

I'll tell you what we did:

Mantid side: Blood DK, MW, SV Hunter (me), DPS Warrior & Arcane Mage.
Mogu Side: Guardian Drood, Warlock, SP, Fire Mage

What we found important at the very beginning; Both sides must open same type & amount of crates & Not opening the biggest crates after another.

Basicly this is our order, the timer marks are as follows; 1st big add dead before 190th second. 2nd big add dead before 60th second.

Our crate order: 2x Pandas | 1x Big add + 3x Small adds | 2x Medium adds + 2x Small Adds | 2x Medium adds | 1x Big add + 2x Small adds | 1x Big add

Here are the Energy numbers: 0 | 14 + 3 = 17 | 17 + 6 + 2 = 25 | 25 + 6 = 31 | 31 + 14 + 2 = 47 | 47 + 3 = 50 |

Since you have a gap between the big adds, your 3 min. cd's would be ready. Also make sure your tanks pull the big add into the middle, for cleaving down Unstable Sparks. On Mantid I sat solo on the Unstable Sparks so the 2 other dps'ers wouldn't have to swap.

When setting down grps for Spoils, always have buffs / debuffs in mind. In our case, we tried to do Melee & Caster grp, I had Attack Speed for me and the warrior on Mantid side.

On Mantid side we use Hero on the first big add to get it down quickly.


Hope it was of some help. If your players dies from Set to Blow often, ask them to make a weakauras for it and slap it in the middle of the screen, then it's hard to miss.

[Deleted]

Also Resto Druid is pretty strong for mantid room, if your pala heal with pala tank HoT support cannot keep the group up, you should think about switching heals

In particular your pala tank can push quite a lot of HPS specced into the pala HoT thingy (which he probably has already done if you killed malkorok with 2 heals)

[Deleted]

I don't think there's a good reason to ever do 2 bosses in a row. You'll want to do pandas>boss> small/meds> boss because your DPS and heals should have cooldowns of some sort available for both, thus making the burn and healing on him easier. We typically do 2 smalls together with the pandas as well since they should all die around the same time with AOE. We also try to keep 1 small up with each boss as well to increase multi-dotting DPS and etc. The only real dangerous times healing wise on mantid is when the boss is out because of his massive AOE dmg. Mantid side should actually be the easier side to deal with IMO. The hunter can also increase his DPS time by popping deterrence at the end of his bombs debuff to avoid having to drop his bombs in a corner (he needs to make sure he's away from the group). He can also detonate any dropped bombs with deterrence as well if the room needs to be cleared.

Overall it's an extremely tight DPS check and gear is probably going to fix most of the issues. Make sure your healers are very aware of their positioning in terms of the sparks that spawn if they get the buff. A single wave will take out about 80% of their health.

yeah i think when we did 2 bosses in a row, it was more of a drag at the second that we became a bit overwhelmed with the bombs/damage in the room. Our hunter is popping deterrence, whenever possible she was targeted with bombs.

I don't think gear is primarily the issue, we are all averaging 564+ item level across the team and yeah I try to align the waves on max sparks for most damage.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll tell you what we did:

Mantid side: Blood DK, MW, SV Hunter (me), DPS Warrior & Arcane Mage.
Mogu Side: Guardian Drood, Warlock, SP, Fire Mage

What we found important at the very beginning; Both sides must open same type & amount of crates & Not opening the biggest crates after another.

Basicly this is our order, the timer marks are as follows; 1st big add dead before 190th second. 2nd big add dead before 60th second.

Our crate order: 2x Pandas | 1x Big add + 3x Small adds | 2x Medium adds + 2x Small Adds | 2x Medium adds | 1x Big add + 2x Small adds | 1x Big add

Here are the Energy numbers: 0 | 14 + 3 = 17 | 17 + 6 + 2 = 25 | 25 + 6 = 31 | 31 + 14 + 2 = 47 | 47 + 3 = 50 |

Since you have a gap between the big adds, your 3 min. cd's would be ready. Also make sure your tanks pull the big add into the middle, for cleaving down Unstable Sparks. On Mantid I sat solo on the Unstable Sparks so the 2 other dps'ers wouldn't have to swap.

When setting down grps for Spoils, always have buffs / debuffs in mind. In our case, we tried to do Melee & Caster grp, I had Attack Speed for me and the warrior on Mantid side.

On Mantid side we use Hero on the first big add to get it down quickly.


Hope it was of some help. If your players dies from Set to Blow often, ask them to make a weakauras for it and slap it in the middle of the screen, then it's hard to miss.

thanks for the advice

We did adopt a similar strategy to yours after the panda>boss>boss>mediums+smalls til end (same tact with our mogu side), and cds being up for 2nd boss made it easier and yeah we popped hero at the first boss.

- - - Updated - - -

Also Resto Druid is pretty strong for mantid room, if your pala heal with pala tank HoT support cannot keep the group up, you should think about switching heals

In particular your pala tank can push quite a lot of HPS specced into the pala HoT thingy (which he probably has already done if you killed malkorok with 2 heals)

Yeah we tried switching the rdruid with myself and it seemed to work better on the mantid side. I don't think our pala tank is doing so but I'll pass it on. thanks for the tip

[Deleted]

Killed them yesterday, our 40th pull was the kill. The thing is, you will find several guides with kill-orders or setups that will match yours (more or less). But you won't find a "guide" for your setup or reasonable "that let you wipe"-information here, as we're only able to tell you how WE killed it. Let me try to give you some general hints on the fight, if you're already considering them, you just need to find "your" way tbh. I suppose things like the anima beams or exploding unstable sparks don't lead to wipes.

Mantid:
- keep dispelling the warcallers (enrage-effect)
- resto-druid is very strong here indeed
- make (wise) use of the healing or tanking buff from the pandas (aoe-stun for the tank; also the healer can not only face the sparks but should try to aim @players & boss as well)
- soak bombs with immunities if possible (hunter/druid-symbiosis works great e.g.)
- use bloodlust for the first boss and dps cooldowns for the 2nd, so you minimize the uptime of the bosses (also make sure to pull 1 boss @start and the other as late as possible)
- count correct! you should exactly know when to pop a crate (make your own way here, but stick to it and it should lead exactly to 50)
- make sure to kill the last sparks (don't run immediately to the next room)

Mogu:
- make sure to kill the statues so the AoE won't hit too hard
- any absorb effects are highly desired here
- if you have the healing-buff, aim it @sparks & statues primarily. the range is rather short, but you should be able to hit a lot here tbh

General:
As you need 50 and you always kill at least 1 big add means you need 36 energy from the rest, which is
- either all (!) medium & smalls (6x3 + 18x1 = 36)
- or another big (2x14 = 28, 22 left), that is
* either all mediums and 4 small (6x3 + 4x1 = 22)
* or 16 small and 2 medium (2x3 + 16x1 = 22)
- As we're in general killing the two big adds, a good amount to pull would be 13 OR 16 small ones, which lead to 2 OR 3 medium ones (13x1 + 3x3 or 16x1 + 2x3, both 22). For the Mantid room the 16x1 & 2x3 would be sufficient, while on Mogu it might be better to go for all 6 mediums and only 4 small (or 5 medium and 7 small).

If the tanks are pulling with the good pace it's just executing correctly. If you wipe you should align the order of opening crates.

[Tojara]

The biggest thing we did that made it night and day was this.

We basically did the opposite the other group did. Both rooms would start on both Pandaren boxes. Mogu side would start with the big add, and the Mantid side would start opening medium/small. It's way easier to drag the big one alone (and more time efficient) to the middle of the room where the sparks spawn than it is to just FFA each side. Having your sides alternate also allows cleave to be much easier. Because in my example the Mogu side is starting with big add in the middle, it's very easy to cleave sparks and essentially ignore them if your healer is positioned correctly and/or your tank moves close to sparks.

On the flipside the Mantid room doesn't have to worry about sparks because the only spark that is capable of spawning is from the big add the Mogu side is doing. Thus they can pretty much, with immunity kill as many small/mediums that they feel comfortable without having to worry about any sparks appearing in the middle.

Once the big add on the Mogu side was at like 10-15%, Mantid would stop killing small/medium and move to their large, while Mogu would do the opposite. Basically the idea is when one side is doing large, the other should be doing medium/small. Space out your larges every 90-120 seconds if you can. Cleave/AoE is strong but we found this fight to be a much better single target fight than you might imagine. Use your CDs on the big ones and that's about it.

Before we were trying some magic combination of mediums/smalls and basically treating each side as an individual rooms fault. When we swapped to this method we went from wiping or barely making it to having 20 seconds on each side on our first kill (now it's more like 35-40 seconds with better gear and more practice).

This strategy is always possible because you ALWAYS have a brewmaster or MW buff. One little thing we do, with the healer buff anyway is leave it deactivated until sparks start spawning on a side. The buffs only last so long and if you pick them up immediately you won't have them for the last minute on your respective side. Thus if you're on Mogu side using the strategy I detailed and WW/MW monk are your buffs and you're killing a large one first, don't pick up the MW buff until sparks start spawning. I mean the damage is nice for added damage, but we treat the BrM/MW buffs as our spark killers, and if you lose the buff in the last minute your DPS will start to become very inefficient when they have to swap off sparks.

That's about it. We (well my side) doesn't really have reasoning behind which boxes we open. I start Mogu and open the large one first. When the large one is dead I open one medium at a time and as many small boxes as I can until I hit one of those urns. If I hit an urn we basically FF that thing down ASAP because it's the most dangerous on the Mogu side. We never open multiple mediums in a row on either side because honestly, the buffs they get are nasty and having double anima golems is something you really don't want to deal with.

On the Mantid side it's pretty much the same, we open a medium and a bunch of smalls until we discovered one of those immobile Kunchongs. We treat those as the mantid 'urns' and focus those things down because they are annoying.

Healers were disc/resto druid. We always had our disc priest on the mogu side and our resto druid on the mantid side. Consistent aura damage on the mantid side is good for resto druid while the large adds on the mogu side are better suited for a disc priest (because the burst is crazy if you don't keep the mogu statues low).

[JV Chequer]

My core is also progressing in this fight and we find that it's a lot easier and less Dps required when u kill only 1 big add - with the 2 pandas at start of the fight - and after that focusing killing the rest of the smalls and mediums ones.

[Deleted]

If healing is such a big issue (our holy pally and disc priest had issues too) you could switch them during the downtime between the first and second room. There isn't much damage going out during the pandas and the few seconds before, so that shouldn't be difficult. I'd imagine a resto druid being a beast for the mantid room (we did with a resto shammy).

[Falu]

1. Never pull a boss straight after a boss, always kill medium / smalls in between, so you get some healing / dmg CDS back up for the 2nd boss.
2. Holy Paladins have it rough on this encounter, your 1st team isn't optimized: Move either the elemental shaman or the s.priest to your group, so you could call for their healing CDs when you have to go and drop the bombs at the edge, or just when extra healing is needed.
3. Take charge of calling the healing CDs of the shaman, using Ancestral Guidance and Healing Tide, can help you so much when healing output is bad, or when heavy damage is taken, ditto for the s.priest.
4. To execute points 2 and 3 effiecently, divide group 1 and 2 on your voice communication system (mumble / vent etc.) so each team can manage itself well without disrupting the other.