Advice for solo top.

[jemd13]

Hello everyone. I come here to ask for some advice when going solo top.

I usually play support or top. Mostly support, and usually nobody else wants that role so it's fine, but sometimes I'm forced to take something else and I usually choose top.

Now, my problem is, I have trouble going against lots of champions, unless the person is just terrible. I tend to not be very agressive, unless I play something like Shivana or Garen, and even then I think I'm not as agressive as I should. For example, yesterday I had 2 games where one I was Fiora and wen't against a Rumble... not much I could do there, I kept up with him on farm most of the time, he killed me once or twice and I killed him once... But it got to a point where he could just come into my tower, turn on the flame thrower, kill my minions and drop like 1/4 of my health and then get out without much punishment, just because he could do a lot more damage than me with just his flame thrower (Also, I had hex drinker for the Mresist,not sure if this was a bad choice).

Next I played Zac because my friends told me to go top with an AP character, and wen't against a Nasus, and well, I didn't die, but there was nothing I could do to keep him from farming his Q, and in the end he got wayyy too many stacks of his Q + like 20CS more than me and of course destroyed my tower.

So, I want some advice, am I doing something wrong? Am I supossed to just depend on the jungler most of the time?. Do I just need to be more agressive? I prefer to wait for the right moment, or wait for my jungler before attacking, but that sometimes lets the other person farm too much, even if I keep up with them.

Also, the champs I like to play as solo tops are : Shyvana,Garen, Trundle,Zac,Irelia,Yorick, Vi and Shen. (Also, I usually don't have much trouble when I go Vi,Shen or Yorick top, but I do with the others).

Thanks!

[SargorVirm]

If you are passive, play passive champs. There is NOTHING wrong with passive top lane champs, just ward correctly, outfarm, and wait for the jungler to win / snowball the lane.
Nasus (you even said yourself you got beat by cs, KING passive is SUSAN), Shen, Malph, Cho, Zac. All are good "passive" tops (Zac is questionable tbh, because all his % max HP dmg, and his bases are actually prettu strong since he is a tank).
If I am wrong someone is free to correct me, but thats how I play top lane, and I main mid, which is usually NOT a passive lane.

If you want aggro tops, Riven is good, Darius is KING trade, if you can do it (low elo he stomps), Garen is safe and easy. Another good Aggro champ top if done right is Renekton.

[Shiny212]

What strikes me about the champs you mention is that many of them do alot better in the jungle than they do top in the current meta. Champs like Vi, and Zac in particular. You also seem to play alot of tanky champions, and when you're Zac top and you face something like nasus there isn't much you can do, he has just as much sustain as you and will outscale you hard, so either you kill him super early or you don't.

My advice would be to pick more aggressive champions if you want to decisively win lane against tanky tops, of the ones you mention that is, Shyvana, or you could try other popular top champs like Riven, Darius, Renekton and enjoy killing Nasus and other tanks before they hit lvl 3.

[jemd13]

What strikes me about the champs you mention is that many of them do alot better in the jungle than they do top in the current meta. Champs like Vi, and Zac in particular. You also seem to play alot of tanky champions, and when you're Zac top and you face something like nasus there isn't much you can do, he has just as much sustain as you and will outscale you hard, so either you kill him super early or you don't.

My advice would be to pick more aggressive champions if you want to decisively win lane against tanky tops, of the ones you mention that is, Shyvana, or you could try other popular top champs like Riven, Darius, Renekton and enjoy killing Nasus and other tanks before they hit lvl 3.

Oh I know hehe, I know those are better junglers but they are not bad tops, specially Vi, I love her, and as long as the jungler doesn't want her it's fine haha...
But yeah, I do have Riven, Darius and Renekton, but I don't like them as much. I used to love Riven and Renekton, not sure what happened xP...

Any other advice is apreciated!

[SargorVirm]

Then play your tanky champs, play passive. Just understand without the jungler it WILL be a farmfest. Make your presence known in teamfights. Thats what tanky champs do anyway.

[Deleted]

Try nasus if you just want to farm, shen and malphite are also very passive.

[Duronos]

Take another champion with you, 2-1-2 is currently just as good if not better than having a jungler.

[Drikkink]

Take another champion with you, 2-1-2 is currently just as good if not better than having a jungler.

Getting nerfed tomorrow making it sub-optimal early, but back even mid-late.

[Duronos]

Getting nerfed tomorrow making it sub-optimal early, but back even mid-late.

Ah okay, didn't realize the nerf was tomorrow.

[Noxina]

For real though, pick up renekton. He's rather tanky with good pressure.
I used to play Support, then picked up top as second lane. Played alot of Darius and Jax (Both good and fun champs), but found out Darius isnt very good if the jungler know how to gank - no escape. And Jax kinda gets banned alot, as he's rather good carry late game.
So a friend told me to pick up renekton, I did and I now have a new main top champ, I win most lanes with him just because I can harrass so damn much without taking much dmg my self (E-W-Q-Eout). He got great escape abilities when used correct aswell (E into a creep/jungler comming from behind, E one more time, and you can stun the jungler while doing so).
In teamfights he's realy fun with a Sunfire Cape + Ulti = AoE dmg all over the place, put a hydra on there aswell and you'll do decent dmg to everyone in your range.

I also like Zac top, never realy gotten into jungling, but he's my nr 1 AP top champ to go to. As long as you're able to pick up your blobs you can play rather agressive, and if their jungler comes you can always just E out of there (this can be interrupted though, so watch out), the Q slows aswell, so its great when your jungler comes and makes it an easy kill most of the time.
I do understand why people would take him for jungle insted though, good ganking potential etc. But if the jungler isnt taking him, there is nothing from stopping you to take him top. The only other two ap top tanks I can think of right now is Shen and Rumble (that is good in teamfights and such)

Though, in the end its all up to your playstyle. I like to be aggressive, even as a tank. And press out my lane opponent out of his/her lane or land a kill.

*edit*
I'd pick up Nasus if you like passive farming, as he is godlike lategame.

[Dundebuns]

I tend to play top in the little group I play with, and recently for me I have been playing some non meta tops as well as practicing with more traditional ones. However what I am concentrating on now is knowing when to go all in; applying constant pressure to the enemy champion, trying to get them past that tipping point, then jumping on them to get the kill. Left the lane 5/0 as Garen last night against a Riven (who admittedly out farmed me by about 10 CS at all times) but knowing when to back off, regen a bit, wait for CD's, wait for Riven to use her dashes, and then leap in and call down the Ion Cannons led to me getting a massive lead and becoming unstoppable.

Also, something I don't see a lot of is people building early to win their lane, and instead they just build recommended. Dor example, on your Fiora vs Rumble, I think building an early hextech was probably a good idea, and after that and Merc treads a Vamp scepter would leave you in good stead. When Rumbles shield is down he can't take the damage, so backing off when he surges forward with his flame thrower on, a few AA's to regen some hp, then leap into him and back off etc.

Also, I would suggest Singed for passive farming. You can go hyper aggressive passive farming (wut?) and learn to lane by proxy with him (farming behind the enemies towers)

[Deleted]

There are generally 3 ways to do decent on the toplane, assuming similar skill level and no major fuckups along the way.

1. Put pressure.

Lots and lots of it. Get a lane bully and be in your opponents face 24/7. He comes for a creep, you're there to whack him. Good champion choices for that: Elise, Kennen, Quinn (she WRECKS melee's), Shyvana, Udyr, Renekton, Rengar (vs ranged champs mostly), Riven, Teemo (both AP & Botrk bruiser work, depending on enemy champion), Darius & Rumble (vs melee's with crappy mobility). As you can see the list is actually long and can be expanded, i'm sure i left someone out.

Issues with this: you do have to have great awareness. You have to still be picking up CS, looking @ his creeps to punish him when he comes for CS and watch the map because you WILL GET GANKED. Any good, Gold+ jungler will try his best to punish an aggresive toplaner. Deep wards are recommended - baron entrance, their jungle (either tribrush and whereabouts).

Alternatively (or additionally), you can put pressure by shoving the lane up to the enemy tower, then roaming. Problem is, if you can't reliably 1v1 them, you cannot really shove because they will jump you midway through the lane. Hence, Shyv, Renek, Rumble are good picks here.

2. Outsustain them.

There is a number of champions with innate sustain high enough to live through most of poke/lane pressure and through ALL pressure with Spectre's Cowl (or some armor if enemy is AD). Possible options to go: Vlad (duh!), Renekton (his Q sustain + a Hydra heals for insane amounts, but a simple Vamp Scepter will suffice early), Warwick (believe it or not, good counter to, say, Kennen), Nunu, Akali (she goes to 25%+ Spellvamp with just hextech revolver, crazy stuff), Riven with lifeleech (the shield OP), Nasus (less so after lifeleech passive nerfs).

How does this work? For example, Shyvana wins trades with Renekton straight up. If you land your E on him, there is literally no way he can trade with you, he HAS TO stun you, Q and move back to not get punished. This works for about a minute or two, until Shyvana's pots run out. Then, all of a sudden, after 4-5 won by Shyv trades, Renekton has higher HP than Shyvana and can go back to fight her, all thanks to his Q sustain, while Shyvana has none.

This is less used approach because everybody tries to WIN WIN WIN. But sometimes trying to win will just fail, so instead you go on the defensive, keep your HP relatively high and wait for ganks. Note, all these champions can punish the enemy pretty well for overextending. So make them invest into aggresive play too much and profit from it.

3. Lose the lane, win the game.

A seriously legitimate strategy. There are champions who WILL ruin the enemy team when it comes to lategame. Nasus is the no1 culprit here, but Jax, Irelia, Olaf, Swain, Singed are all MONSTERS if you let them farm 3 items. Most of the lane bullies do not scale that well or lack the teamfight utility. Get some mitigation, buy a flask and pots, and farm. There will be a point in game where a Jax dumps on Riven, you just have to get there.

On the other hand, you can choose to put your power elsewhere and instead of duking it out with your toplane counterpart, help your other lanes. Shen is the natural choice here, but Lissandra and Malphite (or even Wukong!) with teleport work just as good thanks to great push potential. Wait for enemy to base, shove the lane, teleport botlane for a doublekill + Dragon.


What to take from all this? Perhaps aggresive play is not your style. It really is way more demanding on the player, because you have to track so many things at once: your potential CS, enemy potential CS, creep balance (if there is 6 ranged enemy minions and just 1 of yours, you WILL lose any trade just because of the minion dmg!), enemy jungler & midlaner positions on the map. Try other styles. Try other champions. Try new things. Toplane, despite the bad rep, is actually one of the most open pick-wise lanes in the game.

[Lemons]

I used to play Zac top...not anymore. It's just too annoying now. They nerfed his bloblets so that they will always fall between you and your enemy. This makes it way WAY too easy for the enemy laner to pop them and you end up losing health in lane just for using your abilities. I wouldn't recommend Vi either. She's always been a poor laner imo and still is unless this patch has changed something. You usually see both those champs in the jungle for a reason.

Anywho...if you just like farming then start with a Doran's Shield. The sustain + the autoattack damage reduction makes it very difficult for the enemy to harass you out of lane and it's even better now with the new defensive masteries. I would also suggest Nasus as he is the champion who is most rewarded for /afk farming. If you take LS quints that + Q will give you a ton of sustain.

[Noxina]

I also suggest you search up some guides on youtube, its realy great learning just watching someone else play. Especially if the person who is making the video comments about why he pushes to tower now, why he retreats and all that. Learned alot that way.