is hemo swords still viable like it was in classic? i remember it being a very fun spec to play in pvp. it was really overpowered.
is hemo swords still viable like it was in classic? i remember it being a very fun spec to play in pvp. it was really overpowered.
Milk was a bad choice.
2013 MMO-Champion User of the Year (2nd runner up)
It was not overpowered.
It is viable. But don't do it unless you have a really good sword and a really bad dagger, and if you do, work on getting a good dagger.
In the olden days, hemo's damage came from the fact that it was not normalized- it did the same damage as an autoattack, sometimes with a multiplier. They normalized hemo in Lich King. In Cata, to avoid having to swap between mainhand sword and dagger, they finally fixed the issue where the spec was good at backstab, but also had hemo. They fixed this by buffing hemo such that it gets a boost when using a dagger. The boost, around 40%, is right about the damage you gained from using a sword over a dagger. So when you hemo with a 522 dagger and a 522 sword, both do the same damage. They applied a mirrored fix to ambush, where the sword can now ambush for about the same as a dagger. Because they really intend the spec to be run with a dagger, backstab remains dagger only, and your most effective builder in general...
So in pve, you are losing out like crazy without a dagger to backstab.
In PvP, on the other hand, you will often have very very few backstabs in your kill cycle, and your damage outside of that will be bad. You will often have a harder time fishing for combo points, and the need to use them for recuperate and kidney shot, so you will often press hemo a lot. This minimizes the loss should you be using a sword. The sword is never better than the dagger, assuming equal item level, but backstab happens so rarely in PvP that you will often play like a classic hemo rogue when it comes to building combo points.
The main reason hemo swords is not viable is because 1/3 of hemo's damage is tied to a DoT that doesn't stack. Hemo is actually very close to backstab in terms of damage-per-energy, you just need the DoT to go full duration to get that benefit, so spamming it is basically hemo doing 33% less damage.
I think the dpe is greater when the full dot is factored in, right? I'm pretty sure I do less damage if I just backstab and never weave in a hemo. But the dot, or lack thereof, isn't really what the OP is about. The OP is referring to an older pvp spec, that is not very different from today's- in that both spam hemo to build combo points. In PvE, your CPs mostly just become rupture, slice and dice, or eviscerate, and you don't want to make unwise decisions with your energy normally, but in PvP, you often are willing to empty your energy bar for a control or a heal, or to give yourself a kill window later (you often have to burst an enemy down from full, so a bit more damage right now won't help, but having a full duration slice and dice for when your kill window is, might).
@OP
You remember hemo so fondly because it was one of the few rogue abilities that didn't get normalized in vanilla so it would hit ridiculously hard for a very cheap energy cost with the right weapon. Totally got normalized later on though.
Uh yeah it was, at least for certain portions of vanilla if you had access to the right weapons.
I had (have, really) a Teebu's a pretty sweet 2.9 speed weapon. But overpowered was mortal strike, which halved healing (only thing in the game like that), or double trinket pom pyro fireblast, which could one shot if it crit, or how certain classes scaled into BWL and Naxx gear. A hemo rogue did far less damage than a combat rogue with any weapon- even a slow weapon- but the advantage was, hemo (26 point in sub) meant you could get prep (21 point in sub) and have access to cooldowns.
Hemo rogues were good, but not because of hemo.
Again, there weren't ratings back then, and the game was pretty deviant. But if you actually wanted broken, it wasn't the rogue.
EDIT: To be clear, the above refers to vanilla.
You mean like a misplaced servo arm? Ya that hit hard as hell I'm bummed that I vendored mine since that model isn't around anymore.
Hemo was fun because it hit harder than SS so gave better burst but ya over all it wasn't that strong dps wise. If you wanted to solo pvp the vigor (assassination 31 point talent) build as backstab with the 5 pc. nightslayer set bonus was the best for that with a huge energy pool, great control and great burst. For general bg use combat was the way to go since you hit hard and didn't have to worry about positional requirements and had a steady high stream of damage.
Rogue's were plenty over powered and to say otherwise is foolishness. 1v1 rogues were the best class in the game hands down and the best world pvp gankers out there. They were super strong in bgs as well and I typically got top KBs each bg I was in. Warriors were extremely good and with a pocket healer all the extra damage they took just transferred into more and more rage for more damage which is why back in TBC double healer warrior comps were so strong. Casters sucked in pvp outside of CDs where they blew someone up. Everything was hard cast so they had to stand there and take it.
Btw if you wanna talk about OP. Protection paladins were op as shit 1v1. A rogue would do his stunlock routine on them and do everything they could to blow them up, they'd DS right at the end, heal up, DS would fall off then they'd reck bomb one shot anyone lol.
Kazzak still has nightmares about Prot Paladins.
Switching a locally available rogue profile to sub from assassination (570 gear) and switching the MH from a 572 dagger to a 572 sword after making Hemo the main builder:
Backstab profile: 362k
Hemo dagger MH profile: 336k
Hemo 2.6 MH profile: 326k
So it's looking like swapping to a sword is a ~3% drop... after the 9% drop caused by not using backstab in the first place. Final profile use for example. (Sorry for the response delay, was out of town)
Last edited by Kael; 2013-12-01 at 07:07 AM.
Rogue Forum Moderator (formerly Mugajak)
Former Electric Sheep Recruitment Officer (They're Great!) - Kaeldraens