Angola Doesn't Ban Islam

[TheGravemind]

Don't they call Islam a cult though? Or is that also a lie?

Islam is the least cult-like major religion in the world, by definition, since it does not venerate any tangible objects, which is a key requirement to be a cult of anything.

[Themius]

I don't want muslims to be roasted in oven silly. I am just opposed to their culture, which goes in hand with their theology.

You don't know much about Muslim culture I take it.

No religion should be banned, and it's nice to see that one wasn't and it was just well.. some bad news.

[TheGravemind]

Nazism isn't a hateful ideology - it's just practiced incorrectly by EVERY Nazi.
Oh, please. At least pretend to be objective.

Islam is neither a hateful ideology by virtue of its followers or its objective teachings in its holy book, the Qur'an, but regardless, this thread isn't discussing Islam itself, but the banning of religions, so, stay on topic.

[TheGravemind]

It's easy to have MAH DEMOCRACY talks on the internet forum that exists mainly because of a videogame developed by american company.

Most of France's problems with Muslim immigrants is due to illegal immigration and voluntary self-ghetto-i-zation of the immigrants by immigrating into racially exclusive neighborhoods. None of this occurs in countries where immigration isn't an issue, like the U.S.

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Gender equality, death penalty for such petty 'crimes' and the pursuit to convert anybody to their vile belief or try to kill these infidels is in islamic roots and you can't have one without the other

This is false, the Qur'an not only establishes freedom of religion, it also says nothing about the death penalty for any crime other than murder, not even "apostasy" as most people believe. But, we really should not be discussing the religion itself since that will just get this thread closed, but rather whether or not any government should have the power over the minds of its citizens to make any certain belief legal or illegal. I don't think it should.

[Thage]

Nazism isn't a hateful ideology - it's just practiced incorrectly by EVERY Nazi.
Oh, please. At least pretend to be objective.

So, should we be using the IRA and Westboro as a metric for Christianity? Seems like everyone and their sister uses extremists as their metric for Muslims.

[TheGravemind]

So, should we be using the IRA and Westboro as a metric for Christianity? Seems like everyone and their sister uses extremists as their metric for Muslims.

This is because Muslims are foreign and difficult to understand, or so people think. It's much more convenient to label the other side as "violent jingos" rather than encourage actual understanding.

[Themius]

The other thread was already awful and this one doesn't look any better, any mod pls lock

This thread at least doesn't have people supporting the banning of a religion and tons of religious bashing and actually is an accurate story unlike the locked thread.

[Deleted]

This is false, the Qur'an not only establishes freedom of religion, it also says nothing about the death penalty for any crime other than murder, not even "apostasy" as most people believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel

And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
-Quran 2:191

Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet recited Surat-an-Najm and then prostrated himself, and all who were with him prostrated too. But an old man took a handful of dust and touched his forehead with it saying, "This is sufficient for me." Later on I saw him being killed as an infidel.
-Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:311

He said, "Yes. A man has become a kafir after his Islam." Umar asked, "What have you done with him?" He said, "We let him approach and struck off his head."
-Al-Muwatta, Judgement on Abandonment of Islam, 36.18.15-16

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam

The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
-Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:48:826

You tried.

[Rukentuts]

You tried.

Next feel free to post the Torah and Bible.

It doesn't matter if it's Islam or if it's Christianity. It's just primitive culture. It's why others did the exact same shit. We just industrialized and progressed, while the rest of the world has not come to that point.

[Deleted]

Next feel free to post the Torah and Bible.

I am equally against any religion when it comes to educational, political, medical or any other decision making.

[Deleted]

I don't want muslims to be roasted in oven silly. I am just opposed to their culture, which goes in hand with their theology.

Pray tell what you know of Muslim theology that is not anecdotal?

[Rukentuts]

I am equally against any religion when it comes to educational, political, medical or any other decision making.

Yeah I'll believe that when I see it.

[CosmicGuitars]

Neither can you ban practice in believing in something since no one can control anyone's mind, but if Angola suddenly started to force atheists to attend Church on Sunday, along with everyone else, or forcing atheists to abandon their lack of belief in any other way, it would have been the same thing in its congruence.

That wouldn't make people.. suddenly believe in deities. O_o

[TheGravemind]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel

And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
-Quran 2:191

Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet recited Surat-an-Najm and then prostrated himself, and all who were with him prostrated too. But an old man took a handful of dust and touched his forehead with it saying, "This is sufficient for me." Later on I saw him being killed as an infidel.
-Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:311

He said, "Yes. A man has become a kafir after his Islam." Umar asked, "What have you done with him?" He said, "We let him approach and struck off his head."
-Al-Muwatta, Judgement on Abandonment of Islam, 36.18.15-16

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam

The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
-Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:48:826

You tried.

Ah, yes, the religionofpeace.com copy/paster. I've responded to this so many times that this doesn't even take effort anymore.

And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
-Quran 2:191

The "Sacred Mosque" is the Ka'aba in Mecca, and the verse is referring to a specific incident of oppression at the hands of the Meccan tribes in which they drove the Muslims out of their homes and killed them in wanton fashion. This verse is the first time the Muslims were granted the right of self-defense.


The Qur'an itself comments on verses like these, oddly enough:

"It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding," (3:7 Qur'an.)


So, in essence, the Qur'an is not mandating anything in that verse, but rather it was just telling Muhammad and his followers that they could fight back with ferocity upon being persecuted.

Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet recited Surat-an-Najm and then prostrated himself, and all who were with him prostrated too. But an old man took a handful of dust and touched his forehead with it saying, "This is sufficient for me." Later on I saw him being killed as an infidel.
-Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:311

I'm not even sure how you can construe this to be outrageous at all. All this hadith is saying is that the man who didn't want to prostrate himself ended up becoming an enemy of the Muslims in some battle later on, which is supposed to demonstrate the nature of such people at the time.

He said, "Yes. A man has become a kafir after his Islam." Umar asked, "What have you done with him?" He said, "We let him approach and struck off his head."
-Al-Muwatta, Judgement on Abandonment of Islam, 36.18.15-16

Al-Muwatta is not an authentic hadith book, so, most Muslims (more than 99%) don't believe in this at all (since they view it to be fabricated and a lie), so, please try again. The only authentic hadiths are Muslim and Bukhari, and even then, not ALL of the ones in those books are considered authentic, like the next one you link..

The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
-Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:48:826

This is another inauthentic one, try again.

You tried.

That was really easy, have any other "ISLAM IS VIOLENT!!!111" nonsense that you need to be effortlessly refuted?

[matt4pack]

Never understood the 'liberal' support for Muslims of any kind(extremist or moderate). Muslim views are ultra conservative on most social issues.

What is the connection to a Western liberal? They are polar opposites.

[Deleted]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel

And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
-Quran 2:191

Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet recited Surat-an-Najm and then prostrated himself, and all who were with him prostrated too. But an old man took a handful of dust and touched his forehead with it saying, "This is sufficient for me." Later on I saw him being killed as an infidel.
-Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:311

He said, "Yes. A man has become a kafir after his Islam." Umar asked, "What have you done with him?" He said, "We let him approach and struck off his head."
-Al-Muwatta, Judgement on Abandonment of Islam, 36.18.15-16

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam

The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
-Sahih al-Bukhari, 3:48:826

You tried.

You do know, that those verses you have quoted were revealed after the purging of Makkah by the Quresh of the followers of Mohammad? Clearly you only choose to quote what suits your warped narrative!

Here are a few for you:

The believers, the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabeans – whoever believes in God and the last day and does good works, they will have their reward with their Lord and shall not fear nor be sad.

- Surah 2, 62.


---- Here is an excerpt of a treaty between the Muslims of Medina and the Jews and non muslims of Medina:

"In the Name of Allah (the One True God), the Compassionate, the Merciful. This is a document from Muhammad, the Prophet, governing the relation between the Believers from among the Qurayshites (i.e., emigrants from Mecca) and Yathribites (i.e., residents of Medina) and those who followed them ad joined them and strived with them. They form one and the same community as against the rest of men.

"No Believer shall oppose the client of another Believer. Whosoever is rebellious, or seeks to spread injustice, enmity or sedition among the Believers, the hand of every man shall be against him, even if he be a son of one of them. A Believer shall not kill a Believer in retaliation of an unbeliever, nor shall he help an unbeliever against a Believer.

"Whosoever among the Jews follows us shall have help and equality; they shall not be injured nor shall any enemy be aided against them... No separate peace will be made when the Believers are fighting in the way of Allah... The Believers shall avenge the blood of one another shed in the way of Allah... Whosoever kills a Believer wrongfully shall be liable to retaliation; all the Believers shall be against him as one man and they are bound to take action against him.

"The Jews shall contribute (to the cost of war) with the Believers so long as they are at war with a common enemy. The Jews of Banu Najjar, Banu al-Harith, Banu Sa'idah, Banu Jusham, Banu al-Aws, Banu Tha'labah, Jafnah, and Banu al-Shutaybah enjoy the same rights as Banu Aws.

"The Jews shall maintain their own religion and the Muslims theirs. Loyalty is a protection against treachery. The close friends of Jews are as themselves. None of them shall go out on a military expedition except with the permission of Muhammad, but he shall not be prevented from taking revenge for a wound.

"The Jews shall be responsible for their expenses and the Believers for theirs. Each, if attacked, shall come to the assistance of the other.

- Pledge of Aqaba 622 C.E

“Feed the hungry and visit a sick person, and free the captive, if he be unjustly confined. Assist any person oppressed, whether Muslim or non-Muslim.”

- Mohammad at Aqaba

“Do not say, that if the people do good to us, we will do good to them and if the people oppress us, we will oppress them but determine that if people do you good, you will do good to them and if they oppress you, you will not oppress them.”

- Mohammad at Madina

[Wells]

Never understood the 'liberal' support for Muslims of any kind(extremist or moderate). Muslim views are ultra conservative on most social issues.

What is the connection to a Western liberal? They are polar opposites.

We support minorities.

[TheGravemind]

Never understood the 'liberal' support for Muslims of any kind(extremist or moderate). Muslim views are ultra conservative on most social issues.

What is the connection to a Western liberal? They are polar opposites.

Western liberals aren't jingos, we don't demonize groups, especially minority groups, needlessly or in a wanton manner as many other political affiliations seem to have a proclivity to.

[Twoflower]

Oh well too bad.

[Tastyfish]

Don't they call Islam a cult though? Or is that also a lie?

Every religion calls it's religious opponents a cult. (Interesting that Mormonism is a cult to the, "church" unless it is running against a black democrat)
It's meant to disenfranchise them and to have people apply pressure on the non members to not practice or be curious about it.