Since we are going to get nerfed next expansion..

[Santoisms]

A good player from a top end guild was never measured in damage alone, we all pull good numbers at this level and most of us usually understand the difference between padding and effective dps and how that can make you look on the over all meter.

You know what really makes or breaks a good raider at this level? Mechanics.

Mechanics mechanics mechanics mechanics.

Did I mention mechanics?

No one gives a shit about your numbers if you're fucking up simple mechanics yet alone tedious or difficult ones. It's really easy to pull good numbers, its harder to pull good numbers and minimize fucking up on anything else while maximizing effective damage. You know what players we appreciate most? The ones that when a mechanic picks them we go *oh thank sweet baby jesus* and then not have to worry about everyone dying to some unruly explosion. Or when we assign them a job we damn well know that job is going to get done right every time without fail. Or when some other knucklehead whiffs on a job they come running to the rescue and prevent a wipe.

That's what separates "good" from "bad" and that's never been an easy thing to see.

It's always been simple to see. Death logs, damage taken and damage, and DAMAGE. DID I MENTION DAMAGE? If your damage is low on a particular encounter usually with a lot of mechanics I would associate it with not knowing how to minmax your dps while doing mechanics.

[Baconeggcheese]

It's always been simple to see. Death logs, damage taken and damage, and DAMAGE. DID I MENTION DAMAGE? If your damage is low on a particular encounter usually with a lot of mechanics I would associate it with not knowing how to minmax your dps while doing mechanics.

And that kind of mentality is exactly why you are where you are.

[Santoisms]

And that kind of mentality is exactly why you are where you are.

LOL? I'm fine where I am, I don't need recognition or acceptance from you.

[Zathrendar]

We still playing it off as if staring at AffDots entitles someone to do significantly higher damage than someone else?

It's a genuine shame that DoT snap-shotting is being removed, I mean that, but the second addons are able to nulify that 'skill' people talk about, then I'm glad it's gone because, let's face it, there is absolutely no skill in staring at an addon and renewing your dots when the boxes change colour.

Besides there will still be other ways to excel in damage if you're a better player.

If the addon was the only thing you had to focus on, sure. But you have to focus on everything everyone else has to focus on plus the addons for the DOTs. This isn't exactly easy to most people.

[Baconeggcheese]

LOL? I'm fine where I am, I don't need recognition or acceptance from you.

*Pat* *pat*

[Deleted]

It's always been simple to see. Death logs, damage taken and damage, and DAMAGE. DID I MENTION DAMAGE? If your damage is low on a particular encounter usually with a lot of mechanics I would associate it with not knowing how to minmax your dps while doing mechanics.

Damage isn't everything.

My guild didn't exactly kill Garrosh in record speed, but the stress is 100% on people just executing the mechanics properly. We are in the situation where damage really isn't an issue; we overgear the content yadda yadda.

On paragons people got sat for fucking up mechanics even though they did better dps than others. One player even failed his trial for scumbagging too much on damage/padding and not following the tactics.

Bad eggs get weeded out regardless of how much damage you do. I'm actually looking forward to tougher encounters as a trade off for making a few specs easier and more accessible.

[Tramzh]

Damage isn't everything.

My guild didn't exactly kill Garrosh in record speed, but the stress is 100% on people just executing the mechanics properly. We are in the situation where damage really isn't an issue; we overgear the content yadda yadda.

On paragons people got sat for fucking up mechanics even though they did better dps than others. One player even failed his trial for scumbagging too much on damage/padding and not following the tactics.

Bad eggs get weeded out regardless of how much damage you do. I'm actually looking forward to tougher encounters as a trade off for making a few specs easier and more accessible.

You summed it up pretty well yourself. People can't handle mechanics and do dps at the same or the reverse, AND that's exactly what differs a good player from a bad player, no? Whether u can kill the boss doing personal high or low dps because others carry you is out of the current topic. I'm pretty sure Santoisms was talking personal play here not raid wide and he obviously considered mechanics too. All mechanics would certainly be way easier if all you did was run around with burning rush, dodging stuff.

[Deleted]

If all you did was run around dodging stuff then that wouldn't be wow though. So that's not what I meant.

The original point Santoisms made some pages back was that the removal of snapshotting would allow worse players to catch up to him. I personally don't think it's going to be as bad as people are making it out. We'll still have ways to excel, it just won't be an RNG crap shoot of whether or not your trinkets procced or if you didn't get that nightfall proc you needed...

It will actually be easier to tell the good from the bad when dps is more consistent, and not subject to huge swings based on lucky/unlucky trinket procs.

[Jessicka]

well it clearly doent nullify the skill as there are still dps differences between ppl.

my biggest problem is that it will be absolutely boring to play imo, you basically refresh your pandemic dots every 14ish secs and cast a haunt on a proc, thats essentially all you'll do at this point, hopefully they will add something to the spec, i dont like the idea of simply being the "dot maintenence guy" as opposed to "the dot powah guy", maybe im just envisioning the playstyle wrong.

You are doing it very, very wrong.

[toxicrusader]

If I were able to change something about locks, definitely would be the whole CB mechanics. Too much QQ from people for something with a big number and a hard cast...
I'd rather have it's damage and cast time splitted in 3!

[Grizelda]

Who's still QQ'ing?

No one.

Chaos bolt is fine. We channel our resources into our nuke. The end.

[Baconeggcheese]

You are doing it very, very wrong.

He's talking about the way it will be, not the way it is. I don't see how that would be far off from what we might end up doing assuming no other aff changes.

not@jess: Also don't get why people think affdots trivialized warlocks, I mean were you all not tracking procs with powerauras / weakauras before affdots came out? Cause you basically did the same thing it just didnt flash pretty colors and tell you the actual number, but generally speaking when you have an int proc thats 3x stronger than all your other int procs you know you should probably snapshot it. Addons trivialized these things well before affdots.

[Grizelda]

@ Bacon: The worst part is that the Devs believe this.

[Aleksej89]

Warlock's health stones and gates are so good that they are mandatory - any raid leader that does not have at least 1 warlock is a definite fool.

Currently warlock's utility is very similar to when only Shamans had Bloodlust - you just HAD to have a shaman for bloodlust, even if he went afk after casting blood lust.

Warlock's utility should definitely get changed or nerfed, but i hope they do not try to spread it to other classes (everyone making candy and gateways...)

[Baconeggcheese]

The opposite will probably happen with fixed raid size. They even said they miss being able to do unique mechanics that expect or require you to have at least 1 of this or that class because of 10 mans and with the fixed 20 man raid they'll be able to bring a lot of that mandatory class stuff back since you should very easily have at least 1 of each in your roster with a 20 man raid.

[Deleted]

Warlock's health stones and gates are so good that they are mandatory - any raid leader that does not have at least 1 warlock is a definite fool.

Currently warlock's utility is very similar to when only Shamans had Bloodlust - you just HAD to have a shaman for bloodlust, even if he went afk after casting blood lust.

Warlock's utility should definitely get changed or nerfed, but i hope they do not try to spread it to other classes (everyone making candy and gateways...)

health stones and gates are hardly as mandatory as bloodlust was back in the day, as you can easily do all encounters without them and gates are only really used on 2 encounters at most, i think ive only used it on 3 encounters this xpac, i will agree tho, on those rare occasions where it is useful it is really useful but not mandatory in the least, ofc could just be that our definition of mandatory differs.

[Jessicka]

He's talking about the way it will be, not the way it is. I don't see how that would be far off from what we might end up doing assuming no other aff changes.

not@jess: Also don't get why people think affdots trivialized warlocks, I mean were you all not tracking procs with powerauras / weakauras before affdots came out? Cause you basically did the same thing it just didnt flash pretty colors and tell you the actual number, but generally speaking when you have an int proc thats 3x stronger than all your other int procs you know you should probably snapshot it. Addons trivialized these things well before affdots.

The whole point of Pandemic was to allow Affliction to build windows for Haunt, to maximize Haunt/MG overlap. You definitely will not be using Haunt on proc, far from it, because getting the absolute most out of Haunt will be the most important thing, to make any assertion that it'll be trivial implies bad play now and even worse in WoD.

As for tracking dot power in the past, it made less difference to do so, but the point is simply that it makes too much more difference now and that it requires add-ons to do, it doesn't matter what the add-on is, was or will be.

[Baconeggcheese]

The whole point of Pandemic was to allow Affliction to build windows for Haunt, to maximize Haunt/MG overlap. You definitely will not be using Haunt on proc, far from it, because getting the absolute most out of Haunt will be the most important thing, to make any assertion that it'll be trivial implies bad play now and even worse in WoD.

Did you even read what he said?

my biggest problem is that it will be absolutely boring to play imo, you basically refresh your pandemic dots every 14ish secs and cast a haunt on a proc...

haunt on a proc...

So what he's saying is:

Maintain dots (gives arbitrary refresh time)
HEY MY TRINKET PROC'D! BETTER CAST A HAUNT ON THAT PROC!
proceed to MG.

Or are you assuming "haunt on a proc" means "haunt every time nightfall procs" which would be a silly silly assumption and poor reading comprehension.

[Jessicka]

Did you even read what he said?

So what he's saying is:

Maintain dots (gives arbitrary refresh time)
HEY MY TRINKET PROC'D! BETTER CAST A HAUNT ON THAT PROC!
proceed to MG.

Or are you assuming "haunt on a proc" means "haunt every time nightfall procs" which would be a silly silly assumption and poor reading comprehension.

The way he's grossly oversimplifying it, no I don't think it's poor reading comprehension. When did that become a meme anyway?

[Baconeggcheese]

Except wording changes meaning and implication, he said to use it on *a* proc which implies more than the way you decided to read and repeat it as using it "on proc" which only implies its own proc.

If something can be interpreted more than one way, sometimes its safe to assume its not going to be the way that makes the least sense.