Ysera's gift is not useful healing

[mistahwilshire]

that renewaling or warding through big boss mechanics is better

No it's not. You're clearly not open to accepting all the factual evidence piled up against you on this so I guess we might as well just /thread.

[zoomgpally]

I'm more confused that an alternative view didn't trigger discussion, and I see no insults. I did make an example but the only rude posts have been from Glurp, proclaiming I am a bad player. Maybe you think I'm being hostile simply because you disagree...?

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Again not comparing actual numbers here. Rejuv ticks much much faster and for a lot more, yseras gift isn't even comparable.
Adds to input lag btw
and correct, I don't always trust my healers, and on some fights you have to go out of range of some healers, and sometimes healers get fixates

Rejuv is cast, it uses mana and gcds
Also, if you are feral, a rejuv tick is not that high.
My druid alt heals 9849 every 2.67 sec with rejuv(3688 hps), 22140 every 5 sec with ysera(4428 hps)
So it does tick almost twice as fast, but for less than half the healing per tick, not "for a lot more"

[Aboubacar]

Rejuv is cast, it uses mana and gcds
Also, if you are feral, a rejuv tick is not that high.
My druid alt heals 9849 every 2.67 sec with rejuv(3688 hps), 22140 every 5 sec with ysera(4428 hps)
So it does tick almost twice as fast, but for less than half the healing per tick, not "for a lot more"

there's a lot of confusing between specs. While renewal doesn't directly heal other people it does direct smart heals to other people. Either way, I wasn't really concerned with what net the most "hps" which is all people seem to care about, rather smoothing out rough patches or difficult parts of encounters.

and renewal is 200kish? what's ward do and what spec?

[Ryuda]

Again I'm guessing a lot of the perspective here is LFR? Heroic/normal mode raids don't work like this during major boss mechanics it's going to squeeze out something like 60-90k healing when you could have renewaled to full(meaning smart heals go to other people), requiring no healing, or warded someone in trouble. It doesn't focus the healing when it matters the most, which the other 2 talents allow you to do

If a mechanic is doing so little damage that you can renewal to full after it, you're not doing heroic.


On topic: Imagine this scenario: Boss sends out pulsing AoE ticks every 10 secs for 375k damage(basically, Sha of Pride's "Unleashed" mechanic on heroic), druid has 680k HP (probably not a farcry for a normal/heroic geared boomy with raid buffs), So basically, every tick of the raid pulse is essentially lessened by 34k, or over the course of 2 mins, the druid has self-healed for 408k (34k x 12 pulses, and that's excluding the healing that could have potentially gone to the raid for other mechanics)

With Renewal, the druid would only have healed for 204k, so literally half of what YG did over the course of 2 mins.

Now, I'm not saying YG is better in every situation, if there's a heavy, but infrequent burst of damage (Siegecrafter's Overload for example), by all means, go renewal, as saving yourself from the burst is far more beneficial than any healing YG would do.

[zoomgpally]

there's a lot of confusing between specs. While renewal doesn't directly heal other people it does direct smart heals to other people. Either way, I wasn't really concerned with what net the most "hps" which is all people seem to care about, rather smoothing out rough patches or difficult parts of encounters.

and renewal is 200kish? what's ward do and what spec?

Renewal would be 132843 every 2 minutes, 1107 hps

Ill check ward in a minute and edit

PS: said in the post you quoted, i'm feral

Edit: ward healing 27375 every 2 second while active, 3 ticks every 30 seconds. 13687,5 hps while active, 2737,5 hps overall

2nd edit: that is with 502 ilvl, im assuming ysera and renewal will scale better than ward for feral

[Aboubacar]

Renewal would be 132843 every 2 minutes, 1107 hps

Ill check ward in a minute and edit

PS: said in the post you quoted, i'm feral

ward might go off SP i can't remember, but feral has wall on top of symi whereas the other specs do not so not quite so important, but the way the talents scale prolly going to change for the agi users

[Ryuda]

ward might go off SP i can't remember, but feral has wall on top of symi whereas the other specs do not so not quite so important, but the way the talents scale prolly going to change for the agi users

Wards goes off of SP, yes.

[Bonsaii]

I mean if you're a resto it probably not great.
Cenarion ward can be useful.

On heroic malkorok, I love Ysera.
Other fights I could switch to renewal, but the difference is menial. On heroic progress I might think about renewal if I'm taking big bursty hits, but I can always NS a HT and heal for more than renewal.

[Deleted]

It's clutter, white noise, etc. It looks good on overall healing in logs because 5 million sounds like a big number. It's never saved anyone from dying, nor prevented a healer from needing to heal a person taking damage. Players take it because it's passive and don't want to use another keybind.

Doesn't help the raid either 90% of the time heals yourself, rather than the guy that needs it.

I really do agree with you. Oh sure at some point someone survived because of it, but that's pure luck and good usage CW will probably save far more. Using it on Blackfuse atm, because I seriously can't manage more mechanics and cooldowns at this point.

[huth]

ward might go off SP i can't remember, but feral has wall on top of symi whereas the other specs do not so not quite so important, but the way the talents scale prolly going to change for the agi users

Ward is shit for the DPSers because it's on GCD, while both other options aren't. So that's one out already. Renewal is only useful to my moonkin if i get more than two big hits in a two minute period(and there are no Felcandies), as i've already got NS for the rest. And that is exceedingly rare because few classes could handle such a situation, so Blizzard doesn't design them.

[Jurik]

I think in general Ysera's is a good choice for resto, unless you have a prescribed use for Cenarion Ward in mind.

H.Siegecrafter is actually a fight where I think I favor ward; for most of the fight, healing is spotty/easy, then all of a sudden there's fire and sawblades flying everywhere and someone is running out of range with a laser chasing them. Perfect time for rejuv + ironbark + ward.

[Bzl]

In terms of pure healing done, Renewal and Ward does very similar number, which puts Ward miles ahead of Renewal since its a 30 sec CD vs 180 sec cd. The difference is the compressed healing Renwal packs, which is good if you are a bad player and know you'll be taking spiky damage.

Few fights are designed to almost kill you unless you are a bad player.

Cenarion ward can not benefit from haste in any way (so no SotF cheese) nor does it seem to gain extra ticks in extreme circumstances (just tried with Berserking and Timewarp, still only 3 ticks).

In much the same manner does Ysera not gain anything from haste. You would possibly be lead to believe that the 5 second between each tick gets shortened down much like the time between HoT ticks does from haste, but this is not the case. (Verifyable by going ingame, pull some mob, type /sw, and count the ticks done in 1 minute. It will be 12 (+1 if you count first tick). With the upper HBP you would expect it to be some 30% higher, i.e 15, but this is clearly not the case).


This makes it all a whole lot easier to calculate. Just out of a simple test, my Ysera heales 40k per tick. Thats 8k hps. My Cenarion Ward ticks were 70k, which means 210k per 30 sec, which is 7k hps. Lest we forget Cenarion Ward can crit, Ysera can not, so we must take that into account. I'm on 15% critchance, which means 20% in raids, so 7,000*1.2 = 8.4k hps. Neither of them is affected by mastery (which is kind of weird).

So Ward rolls in at 8.4k hps, OVER ysera on 8k hps. Now heres the kicker. I just killed Garrosh 25 normal and I've got the world of logs in front of me. Ysera did 15.54% overhealing after 43 ticks (our fight lasted just north of 5 min, 43 ticks = 215 sec = 3.58 min. No ticks when everyone is on full health). This is extremly low compared to where I assume Cenarion Ward is going to clock in considering I can only reliably use it on a tank and expect it to have any effect. So the theoretical victory Cenarion Ward has with higher HPS takes a big hit because it is NOT SMART HEALING; unlike ysera. However much we like/dislike it, smart healing is just very very powerful.

We are about to start progression on Garrosh 25h, and thus far in SoO I have yet to find a place where Cenarion Ward can provide anything Ysera cant do better. From the looks of it, fappdinosaur is trying to make solid argument out of thin air. The thought behind it, however, is good. Too many people pick talents because cookie-cutter-website-X tells them it clearly is the way to go, while they have never actually tried the alternatives. This is how bad players play. Even tho the other are a bit shit you'll actually get something from having tried them.

Another thing that one-ups Ysera is that it is very noob friendly. It doesnt require character interaction in order to work. Which means 80% of mmoc druids probably want to pick it. So theres that.

[Deleted]

Ysera N1 talent ***end of discussion***

[Broodling67]

From my Moonkin perspective, 4/14 H so I'm not on the cutting edge of progression:

I never much cared for Renewal mostly because of the long cooldown and having NS+HT more frequently seemed sufficient for me. As a result I never bothered with it.

Cenarion Ward gained a spot on my bars for a long time when it was buffed during ToT. I found it perfectly suited Tortos and Ji-kun in particular. It was up for every Stomp and Quills respectively.

On heroic Tortos I could prevent my shield from falling off with a defensive (Barkskin or Unending Resolve) and if I had used CW before the stomp hit I would already be replenishing the shield before most healers got around to it and CW would be ready for every stomp, seemed like the logical choice.

With Ji-kun, I found I had a lot of spare globals that I couldn't do anything else with due to travel time too and from nests so I filled it with rejuv's and CW's. Depending on when quills came out some raiders found it easier to stay on the nest and have the healer there keep them up but I was free to move as Barkskin and CW/rejuv kept me up.

On current tier I find CW can easily be used when Immerseus splits and the adds are still mid air so can't do anything else, hit CW and have a pretty beefy heal ready to be activated when the slimes start hitting the middle and aoe the raid. I've also found it useful on Garrosh, I am responsible for the engineers and I have spare time before I get back in range of something to hit so I put up CW for the incoming impact from the star we let loose, helps during transition too since there is some downtime from walking somewhere (running down the stairs for temple of Chi'ji, letting the tanks aggro ToES adds and then aoe at the top) so I can put CW early and have it ready for Garrosh pounding the ground, whether or not I was able to get a shield.

A lot of other fights have some very juicy multi-dot scenarios and I can't always find the time or want to use a GCD for my beloved CW, that is when I take Ysera's Gift. There are even situation that I like having CW for (like I already wrote about) but it ends up not being necessary because my healers already have my back and I either just wasted a GCD on CW for over-healing or just never used it because I didn't need too.

I'm sorry you feel that every single Druid is mindlessly picking the easiest talent to use but that is not the case, well not for me anyways.

P.S. I look forward to people ripping on my reasonings for using CW.

[Abysal]

Well, if you're not taking damage on a consistent basis, Ward is useless to you (as a DPS). If you are in a fight where you don't fall into danger zone, Renewal doesn't even get used.

So in those situations, at least Ysera is providing SOME healing to the raid without you having to sacrifice any GCDs/attention from doing DPS.

[Deleted]

As a Guardian I only use YG, the others are completely crap in most cases.

That said, none of the talents in that Tier are impressive and they aren't meant to be. So why even bother with a long discussion about something that essentially doesn't matter a damn thing......

[Silent Earth]

It isn't meant to be a life-or-death ability.

5% of anyone's health every 5 seconds? Over the course of a fight, that's a hell of a lot of damage that the healers may not have to heal later.

[insanedruid]

It's clutter, white noise, etc. It looks good on overall healing in logs because 5 million sounds like a big number. It's never saved anyone from dying, nor prevented a healer from needing to heal a person taking damage. Players take it because it's passive and don't want to use another keybind.

Doesn't help the raid either 90% of the time heals yourself, rather than the guy that needs it.

so rejuv is also useless as its tick "never" saved anyone from dying.

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Ysera's gift's healing is not always very useful. But it's far from useless most of the time.

[Goundin]

Doesn't help the raid either 90% of the time heals yourself, rather than the guy that needs it.

If you are next to the person it does, else it won't reach them. From a tank/heal/dps point of view this is a very good Talent. If you don't like it, don't complain, just pick one of the other choices. And if someone has that, it is their choice and not yours, so do no tell anyone it is a bad choice. If you want to do that, tell Death Knights Purgatory is a bad choice.

[Aboubacar]

so rejuv is also useless as its tick "never" saved anyone from dying.

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Ysera's gift's healing is not always very useful. But it's far from useless most of the time.

Dude, get real, stop trying to make comparisons between things that don't make any sense to compare. The choice is within that talent tier, not to rejuv or use something in that tier. The healing per tick and speed of ticks isn't even comparable to rejuvenation...

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If you are next to the person it does, else it won't reach them. From a tank/heal/dps point of view this is a very good Talent. If you don't like it, don't complain, just pick one of the other choices. And if someone has that, it is their choice and not yours, so do no tell anyone it is a bad choice. If you want to do that, tell Death Knights Purgatory is a bad choice.

Again, seriously? not comparable, and I'm not complaining about the talent... If you read more into the thread I'm more concerned with people just picking up this talent, never switching it when another would be more useful, stuff like that. Stop making ridiculous analogies. If you want to talk purgatory go to the DK forum.