Remove Elitists From Raids and Battlegrounds

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Read previous post. I found out you can't read, so not going to say things several times over again as i did with our last subjects. Go back into your cave or learn to read back. It's pretty clear if you use more effort on understanding, instead of denying.

You just said "that". But I assumed you mean either, hitting an enrage timer, getting overran on adds (Nazgrim) and 7 people being around 30k dps?

No, I don't have one now, but I will be sure to take one next time I see it happen. Which I am sure will be soon. I'm also sure you could find a screen shot on MMO-C.

[Tricksterjim]

But then who would carry your slacking, uncaring, unknowing, unskilled rear end to your free purples while you sit and auto attack? Most of the people you probably think are "elitist" are just players who want you to perform even basic group functions and show a modicum of skill.

[ShimmerSwirl]

Short story. It was new, and casual. So people joined. They saw it was casual enough for them, and made more join. up to it hit an upper bound of how many they really could get to play. 11 Million is a LOT. tremendously many more than even the next best.
The difference between you and me is i can understand numbers, and you just guesstimate from what you want it to be. It was already beginning to stagnate before that if you bother looking. It first began dropping when they tried to make it harder.
About the raiding only. Neh. It wasn't that hard either. It was the instances in the beginning. People could often fail them, and they didn't enjoy that.

I liked cataclysm a lot in term of them upping the difficulty. I found it fun to tank, and that people could see a difference between me and an average one, which is completely impossible now. But doesn't make you right.
My point still stands. You have no idea at all. You're guessing and you're even not that good at reading the graph ;/

Im guessing you don't know what the "stagnate" means if you thought growth had stagnated in BC.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Not really, 1%-20% wipes are pretty uncommon compared to most. Most wipes occur because players dont understand the mechanics, not because of a DPS issue, hence while they'll usually wipe earlier on. I'm sure Blizzard foresaw that which is why they made the bosses so easy. LFR is somewhat similar to how MC was, you only needed ~30 people for the raid, but you could have 10 extra (40). Guess what, people afk'd that too.

You can somehow prove that sub 20% wipes are uncommon? No one AFKed in my raiding guild, they were kicked from their starter spot for under preforming or afking.

And like I said, this is about slackers/leechers/afkers. Not knowing, or caring to know or avoid bad mechanics count.

[Shakari]

Yes. Dumb people ruin wow.


We don't judge. You're dumb or not dumb.

From my experience, opinionated elitist's are far far more annoying and usually cause far more harm than good as they just ruin everything for the other 24 ppl.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

But lfr is made to be done with that dps. 70-80k i mean.
That rogue i talked about that is the first in ages i've seen that actually hit 30k dps got kicked with something along the lines of "<name> only does 30k dps, and did it on previous boss too". Then there came a "Can we kick him? He's just afking", and he went out in a minute. No yelling or anything. I'm fine with people being kicked in an ordered manner.

This is exactly how I carry on with it.

I also don't know how easy or quick LFR would go if everyone were doing 70k DPS, not to mention standing in fire, etc etc

[Terridon]

You just said "that". But I assumed you mean either, hitting an enrage timer, getting overran on adds (Nazgrim) and 7 people being around 30k dps?

No, I don't have one now, but I will be sure to take one next time I see it happen. Which I am sure will be soon. I'm also sure you could find a screen shot on MMO-C.

Omg you read. Fantastic.
Meant 7 dps autoattacking down to those 30k. And no. Is none on here. Only unsupported claims about it. Remember to screendump it so recount/skada shows which boss it is+ also healing done(so you don't just post the 5 healers doing around 30k because they were bored), since i have little faith in your truthfulness when it comes to winning an argument

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Omg you read. Fantastic.
Meant 7 dps autoattacking down to those 30k. And no. Is none on here. Only unsupported claims about it. Remember to screendump it so recount/skada shows which boss it is+ also healing done(so you don't just post the 5 healers doing around 30k because they were bored), since i have little faith in your truthfulness when it comes to winning an argument

So out of the multiple things I mentioned, how would I know that you meant specifically that one? Again, you just said "that."

And you've seen every thread and every screen shot on MMO-C?

[Drahkais]

they just ruin everything for the other 24 ppl.

Usually "elitist" anger is directed towards somebody else messing things up for 24 other people. Not because they want to see something fall apart.

[Dwill]

Anecdotal? He ASKED me if I've ever been part of a wipe and I responded with reasoning. Did you bother to read his post?

It still is anecdotal. You're implying that you never wiped due to terrible DPS and that it's only due to people not understanding mechanics with nothing to base your claims on than words in which we should have to believe. This fits #1 and #3 of:

an·ec·do·tal [an-ik-doht-l, an-ik-doht-l] Show IPA
adjective
1.
pertaining to, resembling, or containing anecdotes: an anecdotal history of jazz.
2.
(of the treatment of subject matter in representational art) pertaining to the relationship of figures or to the arrangement of elements in a scene so as to emphasize the story content of a subject. Compare narrative ( def 6 ) .
3.
based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence.

But lfr is made to be done with that dps. 70-80k i mean.
That rogue i talked about that is the first in ages i've seen that actually hit 30k dps got kicked with something along the lines of "<name> only does 30k dps, and did it on previous boss too". Then there came a "Can we kick him? He's just afking", and he went out in a minute. No yelling or anything. I'm fine with people being kicked in an ordered manner.

While it is meant to be completed at a relatively low gear level, I highly doubt (I have no proofs but personal experiences so feel free to prove me wrong) that a full raid group of 70k-80k could complete the entire LFR since most of these people, as I have previously mentioned, are usually quite prone to easy mistakes and failing basic mechanics.

I agree with you though that keeping it civil is the best way to get rid of the sub par players.

[Terridon]

Im guessing you don't know what the "stagnate" means if you thought growth had stagnated in BC.

Stagnating doesn't mean to get more new players in than any other mmo had in their entire playerbase, but good try

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I just did a LFR wing 2. We wiped twice on Nazgrim. Hitting enrage both times. We had to kick 3 dps at 30-35k. My 528 rogue at 95k was 2nd and I was running around on adds.

I'm so so sorry. It sucks dying to enrage, and looking at a large portion of your raid with 100% damage on Nazgrim, even though they aren't really that high on DPS.

[Sarodan]

Lets not remove ppl who know there shit lets remove retards ...i ment casuals from the game honestly i shouldn't be kicked cause i call there mistakes out nicely 3 times and i shouldn't be kicked either if i go full rage if they still fail to do there fucking 2 yard move to the left affter the 10th time

[Lime]

You can somehow prove that sub 20% wipes are uncommon?

No, obviously I can only base that off of mine and my friends' experience.

And like I said, this is about slackers/leechers/afkers. Not knowing, or caring to know or avoid bad mechanics count.

And? If the entire group is at fault, I don't see the issue, which is my point. You started arguing a different point than mine.

[MoanaLisa]

Practically everything in a thread like this is anecdotal in one way or another as people either relate their personal experience or make stuff up--i.e. lie--to make their point. There's nothing at all wrong with anecdotes as long as they're not used to directly proclaim something as fact. Anecdotes, even a lot of them, aren't necessarily the same thing as factual, measurable data.

Moderator voice: It's time--past time really--to stop with obvious sarcasm pointed directly at other people posting in the thread and for things to take more of a turn for the civil. I'm not certain myself that this thread has much of a point but whatever it might be is being drowned in a cesspool of hostility. So take a deep breath and knock it off. If anyone has any comments to this direct them to me or an admin in a PM. Thanks.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

No, obviously I can only base that off of mine and my friends' experience.

And? If the entire group is at fault, I don't see the issue, which is my point. You started arguing a different point than mine.

Well, not really. You might think my "dying to enrage" claim is ridiculous, but I think its equally ridiculous that your whole group had no idea what to do. All 25?

My point has always been that "play however I want" is fine as long as it doesnt cause problems for others. Being a douche, afking, slacking, standing in fire... this is what I've been arguing against, and you've been defending.

[Terridon]

So out of the multiple things I mentioned, how would I know that you meant specifically that one? Again, you just said "that."

And you've seen every thread and every screen shot on MMO-C?

Again you fail majorly. Know why? Because you again can't read back. And again i have to post that god damn link because you're too slow to find out on your own. Furthermore you will go out of a new tangent instead.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post24102763
Read what you wrote. The only specific thing you talked about was the 30k dps.

Make a new thread when you have the screenshot. I'm sure you suddenly will get into a lucky streak of it never happening. Done talking to you

[spinner981]

Why should the 95% majority of casuals have to tolerate the 5% of elitists? Maybe they should change queues to be "Hardcore" or "Casual". Then we can filter them as soon as they join the LF(whatever).

Why should the 5% of the elitists have to tolerate such a massive 95% of casuals? Think of it from their perspective. You might have to deal with one every once in a while, but they have to deal with casuals and bad players all the time. Why do you think you should get to decide who is right and who is wrong? From a usefulness perspective you will probably lose that battle.

[Fim]

The simplest way to remove "elitists" is to make sure you can loot each boss exactly once per week regardless of difficulty.
You won't run into them at all then unless they are on really under geared alts.

Right now the issue is that every new tier, LFR compares too favorably to upgraded normal/heroic gear and you get a surge of people running it alongside normal and HM raids, who really ought not to be there. If new LFR gear was exactly the same ilvl as Flex from the previous tier, and you had just one loot lockout per boss, you'd never see elitists, because you've taken away all motivation for organized raiders to run it.

[Terridon]

While it is meant to be completed at a relatively low gear level, I highly doubt (I have no proofs but personal experiences so feel free to prove me wrong) that a full raid group of 70k-80k could complete the entire LFR since most of these people, as I have previously mentioned, are usually quite prone to easy mistakes and failing basic mechanics.

I agree with you though that keeping it civil is the best way to get rid of the sub par players.

Just require people to do it right, but can be done with that. The first few weeks the dps was down there. Didn't really have any over 100k unless you get some well geared raider or 2 in. The best would be 90k, and quickly fall down to 70-80 for the average. It went slow of course, but that was mostly to it being new. I told people how the fights went, people listened and tried, since they all knew they had to put the effort into it, but they could only do so much with their 500ish gear and not all being that good at pushing to the limit of their class.
Was fun to me