BrM help

[Purenight]

I need some feed back on my tanking. We are only 5/14 but looking good as far as us. We only shoot for about 60%-70% of the content as we are not a major player in the raid game. We are however a 25 man guild and I have been using a Mastery/Health build for making sure I have enough health for the fights along with the higher stagger.


Here is a link to my armory
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...furry/advanced


Here are several World of Logs posts
http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/86698/

^^^now this is a post to my guild's logs as I do not know if you want certain fights or just want to whole thing, so I errored on the side of caution and just posted the full logs.


I would like to say thanks in advance for any constructive feedback that you can give. I truly love the monk community as a whole and again thanks for any feedback.

[Deleted]

Hi,

I have only looked through your logs from 02 October, and I noticed something, that I find a big issue in your tanking, which is Shuffle uptime. It keeps falling off all the time, which should like never happen. In the most cases you kept it up only 50-60% of the time, which is very very way too low. No Shuffle makes you pretty much vulnerable, which you don't want to happen as a tank.

Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe its always up when you're on the boss and it just instantly drops after you swap off, but honestly this doesn't seem legit to me. Shuffle helps a lot on Iron Juggernauts mines tho, so...

About your gearing

First off, I tank in 10-mans, so my opinion is just some theory, but if it doesn't make any sense, feel free to correct/critique it!

1.) Your hit/expertise aren't capped. Loss of Chi imo, they SHOULD be capped on your ilvl.
2.) If I was you, I'd only go for Stamina on Enchants, but not on gems. Besides, I don't see the point of Agi+Stamina gems in Red sockets. In case you're trying to go for damage smoothing, you should gem for Mastery, not Stamina. Put in some Agi+Mastery or Exp/Mastery gems!
3.) Way too low Haste. Just way too low, and I'm guessing thats why your Shuffle always drops. You take so much damage, your Stagger goes red, you panic and keep Purifying. That means you are out of Chi in no time, your Shuffle drops, you start taking even more serious damage, you try to Purify harder... Its not working. :P What you need is a steady high Mastery + Haste rating.
4.) Purifying. You rarely hit Heavy Stagger, that means you're clearing Yellowes, maybe even Greens. Don't. "You should be always in red", and only clear over 100-150% Stagger'd damage.

Well, yeah, those were my first thoughts, I'm not the best at log reading, but yeah. Hopefully it will help you getting better.

Cheers,
Adam

[Vespian]

Hi,

I have only looked through your logs from 02 October, and I noticed something, that I find a big issue in your tanking, which is Shuffle uptime. It keeps falling off all the time, which should like never happen. In the most cases you kept it up only 50-60% of the time, which is very very way too low. No Shuffle makes you pretty much vulnerable, which you don't want to happen as a tank.

Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe its always up when you're on the boss and it just instantly drops after you swap off, but honestly this doesn't seem legit to me. Shuffle helps a lot on Iron Juggernauts mines tho, so...

About your gearing

First off, I tank in 10-mans, so my opinion is just some theory, but if it doesn't make any sense, feel free to correct/critique it!

1.) Your hit/expertise aren't capped. Loss of Chi imo, they SHOULD be capped on your ilvl.
2.) If I was you, I'd only go for Stamina on Enchants, but not on gems. Besides, I don't see the point of Agi+Stamina gems in Red sockets. In case you're trying to go for damage smoothing, you should gem for Mastery, not Stamina. Put in some Agi+Mastery or Exp/Mastery gems!
3.) Way too low Haste. Just way too low, and I'm guessing thats why your Shuffle always drops. You take so much damage, your Stagger goes red, you panic and keep Purifying. That means you are out of Chi in no time, your Shuffle drops, you start taking even more serious damage, you try to Purify harder... Its not working. :P What you need is a steady high Mastery + Haste rating.
4.) Purifying. You rarely hit Heavy Stagger, that means you're clearing Yellowes, maybe even Greens. Don't. "You should be always in red", and only clear over 100-150% Stagger'd damage.

Well, yeah, those were my first thoughts, I'm not the best at log reading, but yeah. Hopefully it will help you getting better.

Cheers,
Adam

I'm not at a very high ilvl personally, but my shuffle does not come off, haste might help obviously, but I wouldn't advice to focus on haste, since that's the opposite of what you should do. Other than that, sounds solid.

[Deleted]

I'm not at a very high ilvl personally, but my shuffle does not come off, haste might help obviously, but I wouldn't advice to focus on haste, since that's the opposite of what you should do. Other than that, sounds solid.

Thanks! With higher Haste my theory was since you (he) tanks 25H-s and wants to go for a high Mastery rate, his tanking style will need a lot more Chi than mine in 10-mans.

Thanks again, I'll need this advice in Mythics. :P (In case everything doesn't change. )

[Vespian]

Thanks! With higher Haste my theory was since you (he) tanks 25H-s and wants to go for a high Mastery rate, his tanking style will need a lot more Chi than mine in 10-mans.

Thanks again, I'll need this advice in Mythics. :P (In case everything doesn't change. )

I suppose there's a base level of haste you should have, but none I know recommend going beyond what you have on your gear by default and suggest that you reforge any excess haste (which is loosely based on math and your own gutt feeling) into crit or mastery (depending on your choice of style and assuming hit/exp cap).

I would recommend checking out the known breakpoints for haste and chi generation and if Shuffle keeps dropping, try to analyze what the reason was. Because my guess would be, that it's more often ' inactivity' than the base levels of stats. Doing a few seconds of nothing (like running around without minding your shuffle) could cause you to lose it.

If the OP doesn't have his Shuffle buff+duration clearly showing up in his screen, I would suggest starting there. Make sure you can't miss or 'forget' it. When I'm on add duty and running around a lot, I normally try to stack up on Shuffle as high as possible before the adds spawn, generally giving me a solid 20 to 30 seconds before I would theoretically need to re-apply.

[Deleted]

Oh dat. I was also talking about a higher Haste rating, but not mass. :P I just felt his 5k-ish Haste was low for the content hes doing, but as I already said, I tank 10H-s and run with a pretty high (7k) Haste. Maybe its even a waste, I don't know, I'll might try out a lower Haste level, 4500-ish and reforge the rest on Crit again, which seems to be an overkill on Crit tho... At least it'll get me some DPS again.

[hpa]

I have been tanking all the way up to siegecrafter HC on my monk in 10mans(you have higher iLvl than me) and have always gone with a high crit build but i suppose that may not work as well in 25man but your gems look really weird i dont see why you would gem so much stamina tho i would rather gem all of them 320 mastery and dont care about the set bonuses or go agi + mastery gems and get the set bonuses if you really believe its worth it. Your uptime on shuffle is really really low you should pretty much have 90 - 95% always.. and hopefully even closer to 100, I think you will see your survival increase a lot if you get a higher uptime on shuffle, it also seems like you dont use expel harm often?(i may be wrong).

Atleast you need to re gem for sure.. i have never seen anyone with that kind of gemming seems very odd.

[Diss]

Hi,

I've tanked heroics up to 9/14 and I'm now rocking WW.
As above, work on your shuffle uptime.
But a few things I'd suggest:

Get hit/expertise caps as mentioned as above(I've tanked a few heroic bosses with WW enchants and gems and believe me it is a pain with all the parries)
Is there a reason why you're stacking mastery? I myself don't find myself needing any more mastery(usually rock 7-8k buffed) even on hard melee hitting bosses.
Get rid of the stamina gems there is really no need for it.(Unless you really really really find yourself dying)
I'd suggest gemming/gearing/enchanting to Haste(4-6k whatever you prefer)>Crit>Mastery>Haste.
With as much crit as you can get, but if you REALLY find yourself dying a lot get some mastery.

Gemming:
Red: Exp/crit(Exp/mast)
Yellow: Crit(Mastery)
Blue: Crit/hit(Mast/hit)

~Diss

[Deleted]

Note, that he's tanking 25H, thats the reason for Mastery gemming.

[Purenight]

I will keep an eye on my shuffle more closely. I have an addon that uses timers for all my my abilities, however I will download Need to Know as well and set up a more visible bar just in case. As said by Szensa I am using a Stam/Mastery build because I am in 25 man Heroics. I have a new MH fron IJ on Weds that I am going to put on today so I will mess with my gems. The reason my gems are like they are is I took simcrafts numbers and plugged them into Mr.robot to make it easy with reforges and such. If there is a better way other than the old fashioned way I would love to hear it. I used to just use Reforge Lite but that is just for reforges and didnt do my enchants or gems. I will also look at going higher exp, however I believe I was hit capped for melee. Should I gem for the full 15% on exp and hit?

[Tommi]

You don't need mastery gemming at all in 25 man heroic unless you're really undergeared. I do 25 man heroic, and even solo soaking malkorok blood rage phase, very rarely had my cloak proc. The base mastery, plus mastery buff, plus mastery from gear is enough. I do run high on haste though, but I can't seem to get rid of it >.>

Armoury for reference: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rlena/advanced
Yes, my gloves aren't enchanted >.< forgot to do it before I logged off.

[Purenight]

You don't need mastery gemming at all in 25 man heroic unless you're really undergeared. I do 25 man heroic, and even solo soaking malkorok blood rage phase, very rarely had my cloak proc. The base mastery, plus mastery buff, plus mastery from gear is enough. I do run high on haste though, but I can't seem to get rid of it >.>

Armoury for reference: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rlena/advanced
Yes, my gloves aren't enchanted >.< forgot to do it before I logged off.

I think you also have to take in that my healers are not the best, as I am sure looking at your gear and progression that you have really good players in your raid. We only clear about 60%-70% of any content, most of the times not even that much. We 6-7 heal most bosses because of this fact.

[blackblade]

I will keep an eye on my shuffle more closely. I have an addon that uses timers for all my my abilities, however I will download Need to Know as well and set up a more visible bar just in case. As said by Szensa I am using a Stam/Mastery build because I am in 25 man Heroics. I have a new MH fron IJ on Weds that I am going to put on today so I will mess with my gems. The reason my gems are like they are is I took simcrafts numbers and plugged them into Mr.robot to make it easy with reforges and such. If there is a better way other than the old fashioned way I would love to hear it. I used to just use Reforge Lite but that is just for reforges and didnt do my enchants or gems. I will also look at going higher exp, however I believe I was hit capped for melee. Should I gem for the full 15% on exp and hit?

I can also reccomend Inline Aura for checking shuffle.

It puts a buff timer on your action bar, so your BoK button will have a shuffle timer right on the button (and will be highlighted green to remind you that it's up.) Works for other things too (guard timer, Dampen Harm, Most cooldowns) basically any ability with a buff or debuff attached.

[Tommi]

I think you also have to take in that my healers are not the best, as I am sure looking at your gear and progression that you have really good players in your raid. We only clear about 60%-70% of any content, most of the times not even that much. We 6-7 heal most bosses because of this fact.

Not the best players, but you're right, i didn't take that into consideration. May I suggest Weak Auras? There are a lot of strings that track shuffle, and you can do a lot more with it than Need To Know.

Here's one of my videos showing my Weak Auras set up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJkVBrzPBg4

[BrioWoW]

Mastery doesn't do squat for magic damage so if you want an all around EH build you need stam.

[Purenight]

Mastery doesn't do squat for magic damage so if you want an all around EH build you need stam.

if its a magic heavy fight I either take the 6 sec immune on a 1.5min (about with the trinket) or I glyph for it

[Tommi]

To be honest, the amount of times that Healing Elixiers has saved me is unreal. I tend to just run that on most fights. People seem to underestimate its power. For lots of magic, I tend to use glyphed guard.

[Deleted]

Here, have a look on this if you haven't already!
http://sunniersartofwar.com/brewmaster-weak-auras/

[Deleted]

The thing with mastery/stam is people say "Oh you don't need it."

What they forget is there really isn't a con to Mastery/Stam. You're more survivable in every situation. You take a bit more damage, but it's a hell of al ot smoother, presuming you know how to purify properly.

What they argue is that the extra dps from crit is really important. In 25man heroic, it really isn't. Everyone has 0.2% wipes, and 2 people alive kills. And yes in that instance the extra dps from a crit monk would make the difference. But, they also have wipes where the tank dies, and that will happen less, so. The difference between 10m hc and 25m hc isn't really about damage, but about value for money. Doing 300k dps in a raid of 2mil raid dps is huge. Doing 300k dps in a raid of 6mil raid dps is...not so huge. Droping to 200k dps in a raid of 6mil dps really shouldn't make or break. Dropping to 200k dps in a raid of 2mil could be the moneymaker.

Sacrificing 1/60th raiddps for an extra 20% survivability when you get hit 10/10 hard is a lot nicer proposition than sacrificing 1/20th raiddps for an extra 20% survivability when you get hit 8/10 hard.

So in regards to that, keep going mastery/stam if you like that playstyle. Our 4set is definitely tailored towards it so you're benefiting there too.

The most important things to manage as a BrM are aiming for that 100% relevant shuffle uptime(you don't need shuffle if you're taking no physical damage and sometimes it's more important to be off doing other things ).

Always having energy for an expel harm. It's hard to do but you should try to always be between 40 and 99 energy. You hit 100 it's too much. You go below 40 it's too little. The idea is that you always want to be able to expel harm on the next gcd. Every boss has a swing timer of about 1.5 seconds. You've got a gcd of 1 second. If you always have at least 40 energy then you ALWAYS have an expel harm in between hits available. This is a HUGE difference in survivability. Especially when a critting expel harm with vengence is going to heal for 500k+. The way I drilled this into my fingers was I went and sat on the dummies for an hour. Everytime I went below 40 energy I stopped and put 100gold in the guildbank. 3k gold later I stopped fucking up. (harsh, but an amusing story when someone asks why there's a bunch of 100g deposits :P)

Banking chi is the other part of this. You should aim to be using Blackout kick when you have 4 chi, not 2. You should aim to always be between 2-3 chi(depending on ascension as well) so that you can always purify if needed. I personally use ascension because being able to purify+guard+BOK in the same GCD is pretty huge. It seems a little counterintuitive to not BOK on cd.

[Promdates]

Going for higher mastery allows you to do dumb things without needing more outside cd's. Wonder if anyone has a log of a crit build monk with little to no mastery taking 7-8 stacks of Pain on heroic Thok.

I will say this again though, because it seriously needs repeating on an hourly basis around this forum:

THERE IS NO INHERENTLY WRONG WAY TO GEAR YOUR BREWMASTER.

Wanna go crit build? As long as you can survive and you're not a burden on your healers, go for it.

Wanna go mastery build? Sure, your healers will probably love you a little bit, and you can probably drop a healer depending on your comp/fight. Does require a little higher haste to be able to purify more often though.

Wanna go balanced? Perfectly acceptable. Little bit of both worlds, extra tanky and some good damage. Not always going to top the meters, but will take a little less damage.

Do note though, if you want to stack crit and forgo as much mastery as possible, you are giving up some survivability for more damage. Higher crit does mean higher uptime on Elusive Brew, and it does mean higher raid guards from your statue, which in turn means more personal mini-guards from 2p bonus. Since you have a flat % value of AP to make one raid guard, crit is the easiest way to proc more of them. Figure out what works for you and your raid comp.