[MW] Another "why am i bad" thread

[Astraios]

As compared to ToT where I nearly always used CT, I never use CT in SoO any more. Due to the fact that it can be precasted, you can burst with RJW+Uplift spamm to the point I don't think you'll get much higher with double CT. Additionally I found the movement of Roll important on a few fights (+ the utility to be able to take Tigers Lust).

...

I agree with Total that this has gone way far off topic (and I'm pretty sure OP hasn't read in ever...), but I've gotta say, nothing in the wide world will ever outburst CT. Why? Because CT is off the GCD, and you can weave Uplift/CT/uplift/CT/CB+Uplift/CT/CB+uplift, and CT is no slacker averaging 2/3 my uplift healing over the course of a fight. Of course, how often do you >need< that much raw burst (you don't, ever. But it IS amazing to have the solid burst for almost every tick of thok's screech phase.) I've tried RJW, it's clearly acceptable and many people use it. Also was easier to use than timing my CT's. But I prefer harder play and found it slightly more rewarding than RJW. It's possible that RJW is better now due to smart healing and all that jazz.

Also, CT when you're lagging is hilariously broken. Between 2 chi torpedo's on thok, I healed myself 14 times with chi torpedo. Dat self-healing (those 2 CT's did 2.3mil healing, by the by.)

The point is, there are times and places where spells such as chi burst and chi torpedo are broken. These are the same times as spells like divine star are broken. These times are when there is separation between groups of people and each group gets the full heal amount. Thok is one of these times, and it can happen on norushen too due to the raid randomly moving during the beam. RJW is certainly a strong choice as well though.

Maybe I'm just stuck in old times. Like empress. Good fight there. Haha.*nostalgia*

[Nootz]

I personally enjoyed this thread and learned a bit from it, actually. Yeah, I kinda assumed OP stopped reading as well.

I'm always watching ...

[Spotnick]

It's irrelevant damage in 25 man and OP raids 25 mans. In 25 man MWs fill GCDs and generate chi by using SCK a lot or by spamming Soothing (not just letting it channel), CJL does such little damage and so little healing that it's pointless to use in a 25 man raid environment.

Do you really spam Soothing without letting it channel? Didn't really see an increase in generation, I just let it channel until I have enough chi for what I want.. unless I have been really unlucky. I know that was true before they increased the rate though.

Seemed more like a hassle to me.

[Totaltotemic]

Do you really spam Soothing without letting it channel? Didn't really see an increase in generation, I just let it channel until I have enough chi for what I want.. unless I have been really unlucky. I know that was true before they increased the rate though.

Seemed more like a hassle to me.

Every time you start a new Soothing cast it ticks immediately, spamming every GCD (or an alternative that's like every 2nd GCD or something, there's weird haste stuff involved) is basically like letting it channel at 2x speed. It's what makes Soothing generate chi a lot faster than CJL.

[rohendar]

As compared to ToT where I nearly always used CT, I never use CT in SoO any more. Due to the fact that it can be precasted, you can burst with RJW+Uplift spamm to the point I don't think you'll get much higher with double CT. Additionally I found the movement of Roll important on a few fights (+ the utility to be able to take Tigers Lust).

Agree with you here. I end up having to use my roll for actual movement a lot more in SoO, so I don't use CT for a lot. CT can be good for Thok for the insane burst, but if you are the first person targetted to kite, you don't have your movement anymore.

@rohendar if you don't find a single fight to use RJW, then you're obviously not trying. RJW is great on some specific fights: Norushen, Thok, Garrosh for pure healing, on Protectors, Galakras maybe even Paragons for cheap cleave damage and healing (even in 10s you have 4-5 targets when standing in melee).
In a case where you can hit 3+ enemies, RJW is quite sick! Because it then proccs Muscle Memory, you can stand in the meleegroup and use RJW->TP on CD throughout the whole fight. Especially you as a damagewhore-MW should know that ^^

Garrosh: burst AOE healing comes in every 30-45sec, then 30sec of nothing. Not enough constant AOE to warrant RJW imo.
Thok: RJW reduces Chi generation compared to SCK, and with the interrupt mechanic you can't get much Chi otherwise. I find RJW doesn't let me uplift enough.
Norushen: probably the one example I would agree to RJW, but then again Norushen is an easy farm fight and I get more out of Xuen for the dps ^^
Protectors/Galakras/Paragons: yes RJW is cheap dmg while healing, but Xuen is more dmg, and it leaves me free to do my own DPS/healer rotation. Not to mention as a damangewhore MW as you so eloquently put it, you should know you don't want to TP, you want to Black out Kick. BoK does hell of a lot more healing as well through eminence, due to hitting multiple targets.

I find RJW is great for 25man, where you have 5-6 targets constantly standing in it. It makes your for great synergy between AOE healing and still FWeaving. 10man I get a lot less use out of it.

I'm really looking forward to Mythic 20man raiding. None of this bullshit where MW is basically 2 seperate healer classes depending on raid size.

[Astraios]

Agree with you here. I end up having to use my roll for actual movement a lot more in SoO, so I don't use CT for a lot. CT can be good for Thok for the insane burst, but if you are the first person targetted to kite, you don't have your movement anymore.



Garrosh: burst AOE healing comes in every 30-45sec, then 30sec of nothing. Not enough constant AOE to warrant RJW imo.
Thok: RJW reduces Chi generation compared to SCK, and with the interrupt mechanic you can't get much Chi otherwise. I find RJW doesn't let me uplift enough.
Norushen: probably the one example I would agree to RJW, but then again Norushen is an easy farm fight and I get more out of Xuen for the dps ^^
Protectors/Galakras/Paragons: yes RJW is cheap dmg while healing, but Xuen is more dmg, and it leaves me free to do my own DPS/healer rotation. Not to mention as a damangewhore MW as you so eloquently put it, you should know you don't want to TP, you want to Black out Kick. BoK does hell of a lot more healing as well through eminence, due to hitting multiple targets.

I find RJW is great for 25man, where you have 5-6 targets constantly standing in it. It makes your for great synergy between AOE healing and still FWeaving. 10man I get a lot less use out of it.

I'm really looking forward to Mythic 20man raiding. None of this bullshit where MW is basically 2 seperate healer classes depending on raid size.

It will certainly make theorycrafting much easier for our community.

It will also mean you'll no longer be an amazing class anymore XD (MW 10m atm are higher on the scale of healers than 25m MW IMO. Ironic, since in the last two tiers we were amazing 25m and bad-average 10m [I think?]. Ah well, the pendulum swings.)

Also I tried RJW, I felt it gave very high chi gen. RJW on CD, EH/ReM on CD, SoM for one or two globals if you get "dry" on chi, and you can basically output some ridiculous HPS. I feel that it is also way too mana intensive, and I don't feel confident in sustaining that rotation without lucky LMG procs, while I can easily sustain any "rotation" using CT. [Also in 10s I'd say Xuen would be my go-to for probably every fight. CT has similar effects as divine star which make it scale too well in 25s, and RJW finally hits enough targets in 25s to be worth it.]

Kind of wish I could try 10m raiding because my class wouldn't feel weak...but then I'd get loot 2.5x~ slower so nevermind.

[Spotnick]

Every time you start a new Soothing cast it ticks immediately, spamming every GCD (or an alternative that's like every 2nd GCD or something, there's weird haste stuff involved) is basically like letting it channel at 2x speed. It's what makes Soothing generate chi a lot faster than CJL.

I'll give it a try again, maybe it's because I never tried with a proper cancel channel macro that I didn't see any improvement.

[Astraios]

I'll give it a try again, maybe it's because I never tried with a proper cancel channel macro that I didn't see any improvement.

Wat. You don't cancel the channel. You keep channelin and spam the button. This keeps the tick speed of the "SoM" buff, and also adds an extra tick every time you press it.

[Geodew]

Every time you start a new Soothing cast it ticks immediately, spamming every GCD (or an alternative that's like every 2nd GCD or something, there's weird haste stuff involved) is basically like letting it channel at 2x speed. It's what makes Soothing generate chi a lot faster than CJL.

Every GCD. As someone who even wrote a long haste theorycrafting post about it...

SooM without spamming: ticks at
0.0 0.7 1.4 2.1 2.8 3.5 4.2 4.9 etc.
With spamming: ticks at
0.0 0.7 1.0 1.4 2.0 2.1 2.8 3.0 3.5 4.0 4.2 4.9 5.0 etc.
(underlined is the tick from starting a channel)

More HPS, more chi generation per second, same mana efficiency. The only reason to not do it is e.g. if your ReM cooldown has 0.5s left on it so you don't have to wait an extra 0.5s to use it.

[Spotnick]

Wat. You don't cancel the channel. You keep channelin and spam the button. This keeps the tick speed of the "SoM" buff, and also adds an extra tick every time you press it.

That's what I meant, but don't you but you need a

/stopcasting
/cast [@mouseover] Soothing Mist; Soothing Mist

At all to be optimal? Never been a macro guru.

What you mean is spamming it will keep the channel just refresh it.

This kind of explains why I didn't see any improvement.. I will sure try this next raid.

[Totaltotemic]

That's what I meant, but don't you but you need a

/stopcasting
/cast [@mouseover] Soothing Mist; Soothing Mist

At all to be optimal? Never been a macro guru.

What you mean is spamming it will keep the channel just refresh it.

This kind of explains why I didn't see any improvement.. I will sure try this next raid.

No you don't need a macro, it's the same as pressing Surging or Enveloping during Soothing, you just press Soothing again.

[MagicRen]

Every GCD. As someone who even wrote a long haste theorycrafting post about it...

SooM without spamming: ticks at
0.0 0.7 1.4 2.1 2.8 3.5 4.2 4.9 etc.
With spamming: ticks at
0.0 0.7 1.0 1.4 2.0 2.1 2.8 3.0 3.5 4.0 4.2 4.9 5.0 etc.
(underlined is the tick from starting a channel)

More HPS, more chi generation per second, same mana efficiency. The only reason to not do it is e.g. if your ReM cooldown has 0.5s left on it so you don't have to wait an extra 0.5s to use it.

Again, my question is, do you REALLY need so many Chi? Even in the battle like Heroic Malkrok, I can use CJL as Chi generator to archieve 130K DPS and 440K HPS. By using Chi Brew telent, I can't imagine which SOO fight must use SooM as Chi generator.

[Astraios]

Again, my question is, do you REALLY need so many Chi? Even in the battle like Heroic Malkrok, I can use CJL as Chi generator to archieve 130K DPS and 440K HPS. By using Chi Brew telent, I can't imagine which SOO fight must use SooM as Chi generator.

Well on H malkorok progression when people are dying and we're undergeared for the fight, yes we did need the extra chi from SoM. Trying to underheal meant even when I was doing 550k+ HPS, we didn't have enough healing (we also had an rsham haha... we eventually added a healer and our tanks damage is just stupid so it didnt matter for enrage eh... .-.)

SoM gives a pretty solid amount more chi and thus healing. And when it comes to increasing total healing done by say 5-10% [when we have people dying and saving them would generate more damage than me doing damage in the first place], vs increasing total damage done by...
(Less than half a normal raid DPS) ( 2 tanks, 5 healers, 18 dps) (turn into percentage format)
(< .5)*(1/18)*(100%) ~ 2.8%
I chose the healing (and would continue to).

Of course, this was during progression. At this point in farm gearing, your style is more likely to be superior.

[Geodew]

Again, my question is, do you REALLY need so many Chi? Even in the battle like Heroic Malkrok, I can use CJL as Chi generator to archieve 130K DPS and 440K HPS. By using Chi Brew telent, I can't imagine which SOO fight must use SooM as Chi generator.

At this point in the convo I'm sure it highly depends on your raid group, raid size, and the fight. e.g. I carry heals a fair bit so I need the extra chi for lots of Uplift. Regardless, the post you quoted was not meant as endorsement of SooM over CJL, merely directions on how to use it.

[Fortuona]

A few things.

1. You have too much spirit. You only need about 7-7.5k at most with the legendary meta gem. Go for the 9158 haste cap probably or the higher one. With your gear you can probably hit the higher one easily. Just make sure with that amount of spirit to Jab>TPx2 every time the meta gem procs.

2. Crit is about 0.60 of int, so plug that into askmrrobot. Most likely you will be gemming straight crit in a lot of cases

3. A good general priority for MW right now is thus: ReM on CD>TFT on CD or in anticipation of raid damage(depends on fight)>Uplift with 2 chi>chi wave on CD>Expel Harm on CD>Spam Soothing Mist for chi.

4. The last part of that priority is very important. Do not channel the SM, SPAM it. You get more ticks that way, and thus more chi per second, thus more uplifts, which means more healing(and overhealing, but so what).

5. If you feel like being even better, on lower damage parts of fights, just fistweave in a simple jab>TP>BOK with 2 chi pattern, because it actually works out to be mana positive. It definitely helps you to get the mana tea stacks for later in the fights when you will need them.

6. Speaking of Mana tea: do not glyph it. It is actually less MPS if you glyph it. Also, try not to cap on the stacks if possible.

7. When the legendary cloak procs, spam uplift a ton, because it redirects the overhealing.

8. Speaking of procs, get something like Weakauras 2 and track both the meta gem proc and the cloak proc. Make sure they are very visible and annoying, so that you never miss them. Taking advantage of both(especially the meta gem) is the key to winning.

[Blur4stuff]

i know this may seem silly, but unless you're raid is failing on boss fights or doing poorly on wins then an increase in your numbers would mean a decrease in someone else's. if everyone is being healed as much as they need to be then everything else is going to be waste anyhow.

so on fights it may just be a case of beating other healers not beating the damage output of the boss

[Deleted]

i know this may seem silly, but unless you're raid is failing on boss fights or doing poorly on wins then an increase in your numbers would mean a decrease in someone else's. if everyone is being healed as much as they need to be then everything else is going to be waste anyhow.

so on fights it may just be a case of beating other healers not beating the damage output of the boss

This is awful reasoning and debases healing to a binary measure of success, increasing output can mean other healers can save mana to use in emergencies where you as a mistweaver have limited potential.

[Artenesse]

A few things.

1. You have too much spirit. You only need about 7-7.5k at most with the legendary meta gem. Go for the 9158 haste cap probably or the higher one. With your gear you can probably hit the higher one easily. Just make sure with that amount of spirit to Jab>TPx2 every time the meta gem procs.

2. Crit is about 0.60 of int, so plug that into askmrrobot. Most likely you will be gemming straight crit in a lot of cases

3. A good general priority for MW right now is thus: ReM on CD>TFT on CD or in anticipation of raid damage(depends on fight)>Uplift with 2 chi>chi wave on CD>Expel Harm on CD>Spam Soothing Mist for chi.

4. The last part of that priority is very important. Do not channel the SM, SPAM it. You get more ticks that way, and thus more chi per second, thus more uplifts, which means more healing(and overhealing, but so what).

5. If you feel like being even better, on lower damage parts of fights, just fistweave in a simple jab>TP>BOK with 2 chi pattern, because it actually works out to be mana positive. It definitely helps you to get the mana tea stacks for later in the fights when you will need them.

6. Speaking of Mana tea: do not glyph it. It is actually less MPS if you glyph it. Also, try not to cap on the stacks if possible.

7. When the legendary cloak procs, spam uplift a ton, because it redirects the overhealing.

8. Speaking of procs, get something like Weakauras 2 and track both the meta gem proc and the cloak proc. Make sure they are very visible and annoying, so that you never miss them. Taking advantage of both(especially the meta gem) is the key to winning.

This is the best advice I've seen on here today. All of the above - tripled my healing out put.

[Spotnick]

I tested the Soothing Mist spam last night and now I get it, I have Quartz as my casting bars and I need to cancel SooM (well, spam it again) just after the first tick, which is visually visible on Quartz. I'll give it a try in raid to see if my chi generation improves a lot.

This is a case where you can be a god if you use autohotkey.. /sadpanda

[dennix]

Ok, on page one I was called an LFR hero, my guild recently quit raiding so i started carrying some pugs. And what do you know my theory that I stated on facking page one and was disputed by every facking monk in the world turns out to be correct: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r4xzvpey48iw00nq/ Rank 1 Nuroshen HC + 140dps. U can now all officially suck it