Do you think Stance of the Gladiator will successfully allow prot to be viable dps?

[Gliff]

https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...92031682760704

Alright ignore me. I'm officially happy with pretty much everything today.

On a side note, thats gonna be so annoying for DPS ranks...

[Mteq]

you know what im really worried about?

imagine the following:
guild has 3 tanks, a paladin, a death knight and a warrior. all 3 love tanking.

RL continuously decides to put all 3 in the raid (flex raiding and all that), making the warrior go glad stance. basically playing "his spec" but never actually tanking, just looking like one.

or if a guild has a monk and a warrior; "ow, we'll make the warrior the off tank for the adds, he can do that in glad stance so we have more DPS once the adds are dead"

basically i feel this will put warriors in such a place, they will probably not be a first pick for a MT again.

as if the stats adjusting to your spec wasn't enough already.

now if they provided such a talent for all tank specs, the one with the most skill in each role would get picked. not the one who just happens to have the talent.

[Deleted]

You still wont be able to tank efficiently, you cant swap to defensive stance thus no increased threat no dmg reduction. Also i thought shield barrier while in gladiator stance will increase your dmg and not give shield absorb, or did they scrap that with block? either way doesn't seem you can tank effectively.

[Pua]

Its still too strong and a stupid concept. The take away vengeance because they dont want tanks doing more damage the DPS then they put this in where I'm gonna be forced to use it on any DPS check fight.

I'd rather they did away with it.

Funnily enough, it looks like THE talent for tanks even if you're not intending to go Glad (I like that, Go-Glad). 5% extra flat DR is very strong, and the only defensive choice in the tier.

Personally, I'm glad they're trying to make it work because I like the idea of deepsing with a sword and shield - I just don't believe they can balance it properly and have it meet the design intent.

[Deleted]

It's a cool gimmick. However, I really don't think it'll be a competetive DPS spec.

[Skarssen]

So jealous that warriors are getting SotG but they won't give blood a DPS option.

[Verain]

I really doubt it. I mean, plenty of classes with three dps specs already, very little uptime on "all three of my specs viable".

[Deleted]

So jealous that warriors are getting SotG but they won't give blood a DPS option.

Why not just play frost or unholy? I dont understand at all why it matters? Why do you want to be able to do your tank spells but have them do high damage instead of reducing damage? Ultimately if you're a dps who wants to go blood why not just tank and if you're a tank who wants to go dps why not switch to a dps spec?

[Deleted]

So jealous that warriors are getting SotG but they won't give blood a DPS option.

It's the whole Sword and Shield gimmick.

All DKs use two handers, so there's nothing else to take away.

[Gliff]

you know what im really worried about?

imagine the following:
guild has 3 tanks, a paladin, a death knight and a warrior. all 3 love tanking.

RL continuously decides to put all 3 in the raid (flex raiding and all that), making the warrior go glad stance. basically playing "his spec" but never actually tanking, just looking like one.

or if a guild has a monk and a warrior; "ow, we'll make the warrior the off tank for the adds, he can do that in glad stance so we have more DPS once the adds are dead"

basically i feel this will put warriors in such a place, they will probably not be a first pick for a MT again.

as if the stats adjusting to your spec wasn't enough already.

now if they provided such a talent for all tank specs, the one with the most skill in each role would get picked. not the one who just happens to have the talent.

Based on that Tweet you wont be able to tank anything. No damage reduction, no crit damage reduction, no threat generation. There is almost no chance a Prot Warrior in Glad stance will be able to tank anything in a raid.

As long as they stick to that then I'm fine with it. this will purely be a fun little thing Prot Warriors can do for quests and shit like that. There is no way they will be able to balance this to be competitive ina raid environment nor should they even try.

- - - Updated - - -

Funnily enough, it looks like THE talent for tanks even if you're not intending to go Glad (I like that, Go-Glad). 5% extra flat DR is very strong, and the only defensive choice in the tier.

Personally, I'm glad they're trying to make it work because I like the idea of deepsing with a sword and shield - I just don't believe they can balance it properly and have it meet the design intent.

Agreed which makes he think they will buff one of the other ones or nerf this in the protection side of the talent.

[Deleted]

As long as they stick to that then I'm fine with it. this will purely be a fun little thing Prot Warriors can do for quests and shit like that.

That was my thought exactly, why should we be bothered with having additional set of weaponry for other jobs (1-2twohander for arms/tg, +1 onehander for smf) but on the other hand what's with prot paladins? All other tanks can fit different roles via role switches just fine (twohanded frost/unholy, twohanded feral, one- or twohanded windwalker). After all the talent just feels odd, we'll have to wait for further infos about it.

Ps: a possible return of african turtle cleave?

[Mteq]

Based on that Tweet you wont be able to tank anything. No damage reduction, no crit damage reduction, no threat generation. There is almost no chance a Prot Warrior in Glad stance will be able to tank anything in a raid.

As long as they stick to that then I'm fine with it. this will purely be a fun little thing Prot Warriors can do for quests and shit like that. There is no way they will be able to balance this to be competitive ina raid environment nor should they even try.

- - - Updated - - -



Agreed which makes he think they will buff one of the other ones or nerf this in the protection side of the talent.

i hope you're right. gimmicky isn't really blizzards thing though

[Deleted]

This talent will never make it live.

Maybe as fun major glyph for leveling but not as a talent.

[Trosean]

Speaking strictly to the dps part of the talent - I think it could be an interesting 'dps spec' in a raid environment if it deals a well-tuned amount of dps. It's worth noting that:

-Recklessness is being removed from protection - which seems like it will limit burst potential of the spec relative to Arms/Fury for something that needs to die quickly.
-Rallying Cry is being removed from protection - losing a raid CD simply by being protection 'dps'.
-Vengeance won't be gained in Gladiator Stance, so tanking things becomes relatively worthless outside of more revenge procs I guess (which in turn might generate enough rage for more heroic strikes?), but that seems like pretty minimal benefit for the cost of how much increased damage would be taken.
-Shield Charge sounds like it might have a minimum range requirement if it's a 'charge'? It doesn't say so in the tooltip, so maybe not.

Too many assumptions to really talk about its viability right now, this early. I fear many people are going to look strictly at the damage output of the talent and not the losses of utility (such as potential burst or a raid cd) when considering whether or not it is 'viable'.

[Raugnaut]

This talent will never make it live.

Maybe as fun major glyph for leveling but not as a talent.

Except that blizz seems to be really trying to make it live and work.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Funnily enough, it looks like THE talent for tanks even if you're not intending to go Glad (I like that, Go-Glad). 5% extra flat DR is very strong, and the only defensive choice in the tier.

Personally, I'm glad they're trying to make it work because I like the idea of deepsing with a sword and shield - I just don't believe they can balance it properly and have it meet the design intent.

I'm going with it regardless, I've always wanted a sword&board spec for my Warrior, and I've been having tons of fun playing around with what's essentially the same thing in Neverwinter.

If they make it work, it'll be glorious, I'll finally be able to have a PvP spec!

Speaking strictly to the dps part of the talent - I think it could be an interesting 'dps spec' in a raid environment if it deals a well-tuned amount of dps. It's worth noting that:

-Recklessness is being removed from protection - which seems like it will limit burst potential of the spec relative to Arms/Fury for something that needs to die quickly.
-Rallying Cry is being removed from protection - losing a raid CD simply by being protection 'dps'.
-Vengeance won't be gained in Gladiator Stance, so tanking things becomes relatively worthless outside of more revenge procs I guess (which in turn might generate enough rage for more heroic strikes?), but that seems like pretty minimal benefit for the cost of how much increased damage would be taken.
-Shield Charge sounds like it might have a minimum range requirement if it's a 'charge'? It doesn't say so in the tooltip, so maybe not.

Too many assumptions to really talk about its viability right now, this early. I fear many people are going to look strictly at the damage output of the talent and not the losses of utility (such as potential burst or a raid cd) when considering whether or not it is 'viable'.

Agreed, it's too early to look at. But most other tanks have lost their utility as well - Warriors aren't the only ones. It's likely this was made to even the playing field for tanks, i.e. "We'll take paladins because they have more utility than a Warrior" or some other type of bullshit argument.

I'm very excited, and I hope they keep it.

[Trosean]

Agreed, it's too early to look at. But most other tanks have lost their utility as well - Warriors aren't the only ones. It's likely this was made to even the playing field for tanks, i.e. "We'll take paladins because they have more utility than a Warrior" or some other type of bullshit argument.

I'm very excited, and I hope they keep it.

No arguments here. I too am excited - I was more referiring to the dps side of t though, rather than the tank side. It seems that raid cooldowns reside in the dps rather than the tanks - so by taking this talent for its offensive capabilities (I think it will still be very good for Defensive Stance, 5% constant damage reduction wooooo) you might be a DPS role, but lack the cooldowns that the other dps classes all seem to have. This could potentially make you less valuable than speccing arms or fury depending on where the DPS of the Gladiator Stance Warrior sits.

But... I suppose even that will be somewhat small differences?

[Pua]

But... I suppose even that will be somewhat small differences?

The thing is, it kind of has to be a bit naff. They can't really allow it to be as good as another warrior DPS spec, and we all know how poorly Arms traditionally does. Allied to that, imagine the players of a DPS spec noticing that a warrior's tanking spec is doing better than theirs... Blizzard have shown a real lack of resistance to overflowing cups of forum tears, and I don't see that changing.

[Raugnaut]

Funnily enough, it looks like THE talent for tanks even if you're not intending to go Glad (I like that, Go-Glad). 5% extra flat DR is very strong, and the only defensive choice in the tier.

Personally, I'm glad they're trying to make it work because I like the idea of deepsing with a sword and shield - I just don't believe they can balance it properly and have it meet the design intent.

Its not the only defensive talent in the tier. Ravager provides 20% parry chance for 15 seconds, and the CDR talent means higher uptime on Shieldwall, Demoralizing Shout, Last Stand, ect.

Let me see, Ravager provides 20% parry, 15 seconds, 60 second CD (May be affected by CDR?), 15/60=1/4, 5% parry on average.

So defensively, one would take Ravager on add fights, CDR on fights with lots of bursty abilities, and Resolve on any other fights, or fights with high magic damage.

[Archimtiros]

Its not the only defensive talent in the tier. Ravager provides 20% parry chance for 15 seconds, and the CDR talent means higher uptime on Shieldwall, Demoralizing Shout, Last Stand, ect.

Let me see, Ravager provides 20% parry, 15 seconds, 60 second CD (May be affected by CDR?), 15/60=1/4, 5% parry on average.

So defensively, one would take Ravager on add fights, CDR on fights with lots of bursty abilities, and Resolve on any other fights, or fights with high magic damage.

This is pretty apt. They all seem to have atleast some potential uses, though I can agree that Glad Stance (defensive bonus) will seem to general easy way to go; just like Second Wind is for many DPS Warriors.

As for DPS, I think their single target will be pretty decent. It will very likely still be behind Fury/Arms when you get around to min/maxing things but then I don't see that as a bad thing either.

The Stance does not add any notable AoE damage, and without the spec-specific passives their Ravager, Bladestorm and TC+Deep Wounds won't keep up. I'm sure the three combined will still add respectable AoE damage, but it isn't bringing anything that its Fury/Arms counterparts aren't built to do better.
Secondly, remember they are removing Recklessness from Protection. Even nerfed it will account for a damage difference.

I do think it could be strong in pvp in its current iteration however. Would be fun atleast and you would be able to "somewhat" dynamically change stances by dropping in and out of combat. Could make it more fun when queueing to Flag Carry and finding someone else doing it, or attacking/defending a node with a group at your back.