The Purple Precedent: Why it is bad for the community

[Razecog]

Epic just means you get a Sha Crystal from Disenchanting it. iLvL is the new "epic".

[rhorle]

No it doesn't. Go look at the 476 Honor epics and the 476 crafted blues. They're identical.

I assume you are talking about http://www.wowhead.com/item=98756 and www.wowhead.com/item=91453? Since those are the only items crafted and bought with honor that share values. The share stats because of a special circumstance and the way Blizzard changed PvP gear in MoP. The old PvP epics were removed from the game and added as blue quality crafted gear in 5.4

[Deleted]

The coloring works fine. When you're level 60, and you kill a mob, the chance that it can drop a green thing is quite high. Blue things are rare, and purple things are very rare. If it's green and it has an item level of 70, a blue piece that drops would have an ilevel of 75 and a purple thing would have an ilevel of 80 (just an example). On level 90 that doesn't work. Every boss drops something and everything in that raid, most of the time, has the same item level.

[rhorle]

An epic item with an item level of 420 has the same stats as a blue item with an item level of 420. Otherwise it would be useless to have item levels.

No it wouldn't. Item Quality and Item Level can both have a different effect on the Item Budget. http://www.wowhead.com/item=23178 and http://www.wowhead.com/item=4735 share the same item level but have different stats. Item levels were not useless. Item Quality is to denote something about the item that makes it different then a standard item for that item level or at least that is what it once did.

As WoW progressed in expansion end game slowly made every item epic which made item quality an factor that could be disregarded while doing majority of end game content. Item Quality still has a place on the formula for item budgets. Two items of the same item level but different qualities should be different. The game just needs to get back to making the quality differences mean something again even at end game.

Though Blizzard has shifted end game quality into flavor text, as <Warforged> is essentially the same as going reward an epic in place of a blue.

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The coloring works fine. When you're level 60, and you kill a mob, the chance that it can drop a green thing is quite high. Blue things are rare, and purple things are very rare. If it's green and it has an item level of 70, a blue piece that drops would have an ilevel of 75 and a purple thing would have an ilevel of 80 (just an example). On level 90 that doesn't work. Every boss drops something and everything in that raid, most of the time, has the same item level.

Except not any more. Blizzard is making end game items have varying item levels and switching the quality from color to <text> below the name. There are still different levels of quality in end game epic items. The timeless isle can reward 495 or 535 epics depending on if you have a burden or not. The color as a designator doesn't work at end game because Blizzard doesn't reset that every tier so epics always stay epic.

Blizzard doesn't do that because perception is a powerful tool and people that perceive themselves as weaker when they really are not get upset. Its why they had reservations about doing the item squish and the exact same sentiments a "quality squish" would illicit. Blizzard could just add a larger item level gap to have t12 blues that are higher then t11 epics but often times they don't have enough content to make that sort of progress worth while.

What they should do is make current tier blue items that are equal in item level to last tier epics. It still gives last tier epics a little better stats (due to being epic) but allows for people to catch up in gear, but not be as great as if they were in epics. There is no reason why gear created as "catch up" pieces need to be epic at end game. Blizzard easily could have made Timeless gear epic and non-timeless gear blue but kept them the same item level. It would still create a difference stat wise due to different qualities but not inflate the item levels per expansion the same.

And inflation will be a problem again even with the planned squish in WoD. As more and more <Warforged> style gear is added it will increase the item levels of that expansion. Where they could instead have the color/quality change while keeping the item levels fixed.

[Deleted]

No it wouldn't. Item Quality and Item Level can both have a different effect on the Item Budget. http://www.wowhead.com/item=23178 and http://www.wowhead.com/item=4735 share the same item level but have different stats. Item levels were not useless. Item Quality is to denote something about the item that makes it different then a standard item for that item level or at least that is what it once did.

As WoW progressed in expansion end game slowly made every item epic which made item quality an factor that could be disregarded while doing majority of end game content. Item Quality still has a place on the formula for item budgets. Two items of the same item level but different qualities should be different. The game just needs to get back to making the quality differences mean something again even at end game.

Though Blizzard has shifted end game quality into flavor text, as <Warforged> is essentially the same as going reward an epic in place of a blue.

- - - Updated - - -



Except not any more. Blizzard is making end game items have varying item levels and switching the quality from color to <text> below the name. There are still different levels of quality in end game epic items. The timeless isle can reward 495 or 535 epics depending on if you have a burden or not. The color as a designator doesn't work at end game because Blizzard doesn't reset that every tier so epics always stay epic.

Blizzard doesn't do that because perception is a powerful tool and people that perceive themselves as weaker when they really are not get upset. Its why they had reservations about doing the item squish and the exact same sentiments a "quality squish" would illicit. Blizzard could just add a larger item level gap to have t12 blues that are higher then t11 epics but often times they don't have enough content to make that sort of progress worth while.

What they should do is make current tier blue items that are equal in item level to last tier epics. It still gives last tier epics a little better stats (due to being epic) but allows for people to catch up in gear, but not be as great as if they were in epics. There is no reason why gear created as "catch up" pieces need to be epic at end game. Blizzard easily could have made Timeless gear epic and non-timeless gear blue but kept them the same item level. It would still create a difference stat wise due to different qualities but not inflate the item levels per expansion the same.

And inflation will be a problem again even with the planned squish in WoD. As more and more <Warforged> style gear is added it will increase the item levels of that expansion. Where they could instead have the color/quality change while keeping the item levels fixed.

Those are low level items. They sometimes had weird stats anyway. It's hard to compare two items because they often differ by 1 ilevel, but it's about the same. If you have a 410 blue chest piece and you get a 412 green one, you can replace it.

Yes some epics are better than others depending on the item level. Has also always been like that. Gear from MC and Naxxramas is both purple, but they have different item levels.

[rhorle]

Yes some epics are better than others depending on the item level. Has also always been like that. Gear from MC and Naxxramas is both purple, but they have different item levels.

Those are different tier and not differences with in the same tier from the same difficulty. Warforged and Thunderforged are new to MoP and haven't been a concept used in the past.

[Deleted]

Those are different tier and not differences with in the same tier from the same difficulty. Warforged and Thunderforged are new to MoP and haven't been a concept used in the past.

So what's the difference? Different items from different tiers don't need special colors, but different items from the same tier do? We didn't have Warforged or Thunderforged before, but we had heroic items that came from the same tier of raiding, just from a different difficulty. They were always all epic no matter what tier or what difficulty they were obtained from.

[rhorle]

So what's the difference? Different items from different tiers don't need special colors, but different items from the same tier do? We didn't have Warforged or Thunderforged before, but we had heroic items that came from the same tier of raiding, just from a different difficulty. They were always all epic no matter what tier or what difficulty they were obtained from.

As I said to you before Warforged and Thunderforged have taken the place of Blue and Purple. We didn't need to differentiate Epics other then Heroic and Normal prior to MoP. Every tier will have its own <higher item quality> descriptor. Why not just use the universal system for item quality that already exists? It hasn't always been this way either. Differences between epics have been introduced every expansion.

I don't think you understood my comment about warforged and item quality. It was in regards to item level inflation which is a real problem. When item color was used you didn't have to jump the item level of an item to have it be more powerful. Because the color gave two items of the same item level special properties. This is why blue and purple items were sought after because they were inherently more powerful given equal item levels. An epic was more likely to have sockets then a blue is just one example.

If the rewards from raids were the same item level but different qualities it would slow item level creep but still give the items more power. Which is why item quality (green, blue, purple) is a useful value to have on items. It isn't really being used in a useful manner anymore but a way to designate an item as more powerful with out increasing item levels is a great thing.

[Plutarch78]

2004-2006 called. They moved on. So should you.

[Normie]

I wish it was that simple my friend but colours matter to people, these little things that are insignificant to one person can be very impactful to another.

The fact that someone cares about something unimportant doesn't somehow make that unimportant thing important.

It just means that someone cares about something unimportant.

[Gwiez]

Write an addon that changes tooltip text color. Most people don't have a problem with it.

[GennGreymane]

I get the vibe that if most gear out side of raiding and LFR was blue people would be upset.

[Deleted]

As I said to you before Warforged and Thunderforged have taken the place of Blue and Purple. We didn't need to differentiate Epics other then Heroic and Normal prior to MoP. Every tier will have its own <higher item quality> descriptor. Why not just use the universal system for item quality that already exists? It hasn't always been this way either. Differences between epics have been introduced every expansion.

I don't think you understood my comment about warforged and item quality. It was in regards to item level inflation which is a real problem. When item color was used you didn't have to jump the item level of an item to have it be more powerful. Because the color gave two items of the same item level special properties. This is why blue and purple items were sought after because they were inherently more powerful given equal item levels. An epic was more likely to have sockets then a blue is just one example.

If the rewards from raids were the same item level but different qualities it would slow item level creep but still give the items more power. Which is why item quality (green, blue, purple) is a useful value to have on items. It isn't really being used in a useful manner anymore but a way to designate an item as more powerful with out increasing item levels is a great thing.

No, Thunderforged and Warforged haven't taken the place of blues and purples. They are rare, slightly better versions of raid gear. That is something new. There is no equivalent to that in previous expansions. In Vanilla, every piece of raid gear was purple. It has always been like this. There was no rare chance to get better raid gear than normal.

[Vongimi]

I really don't care about the "epic is no longer epic" argument, but I wouldn't mind a new "Mythic" quality of gear, that was a new color and obviously only drops from mythic raids. Maybe red text? Yellow? Teal?

[StationaryHawk]

It's a name associated with a colour. The numbers are the only thing that matter.

[rhorle]

No, Thunderforged and Warforged haven't taken the place of blues and purples. They are rare, slightly better versions of raid gear. That is something new. There is no equivalent to that in previous expansions. In Vanilla, every piece of raid gear was purple. It has always been like this. There was no rare chance to get better raid gear than normal.

http://www.wowhead.com/zone=3429 was a Vanilla raid. http://www.wowwiki.com/Zul%27Gurub_loot_%28original%29 was a vanilla raid.

You still don't understand what blue and purple represented. The same item in purple was slightly better then the same item in blue. Just as the same item in blue was slightly better then the same item in green. This is why people associated Purple as better then blue, and blue better then green. This is why Warforged and Thunderforged are comparable to the difference between blue and purple. Because Warforged is designed to be slightly better then the Non-Warforged version.

I know there wasn't always a chance to get better raid gear than normal. I have never stated that. But the rewards from doing raid content have changed every expansion. Because they've added heroic modes, added and removed different loot for different sizes of the same content, added LFR, added and remove LFR and Flex. All creating different levels of "end game epics" when there used to only be one level of end game epic per tier.

[Normie]

I really don't care about the "epic is no longer epic" argument, but I wouldn't mind a new "Mythic" quality of gear, that was a new color and obviously only drops from mythic raids.

I would be fine with that, as long as the special colored gear only dropped for the first 6 lockouts of the tier. Then it reverts to plain old purple.

[Deleted]

As for the "purple should be special" crowd. How about we add a bucket of bright pink paint to the hard mode boss loot tables. Then you can paint your gear pink and be special. Otherwise, you should realize that purple is just a color and move on.

If the color is meaningless then why is it different?

[GennGreymane]

If color is meaningless

How would you react if all the out of raid epics were actually blue?

[Deleted]

The fact that someone cares about something unimportant doesn't somehow make that unimportant thing important.

It just means that someone cares about something unimportant.

Unimportant being someone else's predefined definition based on one's arrogance (that would be you). Let's be honest here, WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE to dictate what people should view as important or not?