[Spoilers] World of Warcraft - War Crimes (Received Early)

[Seebach]

What super weapons? The only thing that helped us against Deathwing was the Dragon Soul. And that still happens regardless of who is Warchief if Thrall isn't.

I appreciate your ding at Thrall, and I agree overall that he is a Mary Sue, but in this case I don't think so.

Basically, if Thrall had left anyone else besides Garrosh in charge, they wouldn't have had the strength that they did to do what the Horde needed to do during that time.

[KrazyK923]

Basically, if Thrall had left anyone else besides Garrosh in charge, they wouldn't have had the strength that they did to do what the Horde needed to do during that time.

But...that still doesn't change the outcome of Thrall getting the Dragon Soul.

[Deleted]

No, see, that's the whole point.

If the war didn't happen where they got all their super weapons, Deathwing wouldn't have been stopped.

Thrall was right to make Garrosh Warchief just as he is now right for removing him as Warchief.

Mary Sue 101

The Mary Sue is never wrong in his decision.

I like how you're using a logic that is basically the same as the one Baine is applying when he's desperately trying to make Garrosh seem like not that horrible after all.

Thrall made mistakes. They're obvious mistakes. There's shittons of really bad stuff that was caused by this. No matter how you try to spin it, making Garrosh Warchief was a really really daft thing to do.

You're missing the point of what both the parties in this trial are doing. They're only showing one side of the issue and ignoring the other because that's what they're supposed to do. Which is what you seem to be latching onto.

[Deleted]

Basically, if Thrall had left anyone else besides Garrosh in charge, they wouldn't have had the strength that they did to do what the Horde needed to do during that time.

Which still has nothing to do with the accusation. Tyrande can't honestly thinking that a war with the Horde was good for the Alliance and the world. And Thrall would still get the Dragon Soul.

[KrazyK923]

Especially with how Ashenvale ended up.

[Chickat]

What super weapons? The only thing that helped us against Deathwing was the Dragon Soul. And that still happens regardless of who is Warchief if Thrall isn't.

I appreciate your ding at Thrall, and I agree overall that he is a Mary Sue, but in this case I don't think so.

Had Thrall bade someone more level headed warchief the horde wouldn't have been as war focused and united. Garrosh turned the down on their luck horde into an army that could potentially rival the alliance. Still doesn't help Tyrandes point though does it. The horde was stronger because of Garrosh, at least during the Cataclysm.

[elbleuet]

Incoming Sylvanas and Vereesa lore

Yes please.

[Seebach]

But...that still doesn't change the outcome of Thrall getting the Dragon Soul.

It doesn't need to. The point is, whatever the Horde did to help fight against the end of the world would not have been possible with anyone other than Garrosh.

Thrall made mistakes. They're obvious mistakes. There's shittons of really bad stuff that was caused by this. No matter how you try to spin it, making Garrosh Warchief was a really really daft thing to do.

That's what I'm talking about.

That's how it is trying to be spun to us, the readers, the enjoyers of the story (or lack thereof). It had to happen, and there was no getting around it.

Which is total bullshit.

And Thrall will not take any blame for it. He'll be exonerated in the end, because it was his bad decisions, but it ultimately "wasn't his fault".

[Mawnix]

Why? Why does Thrall need to be defended? I guess just undermine your entire role as the prosecutor, basically going "Oh well Thrall's a good guy, without him the world would be dead. So, its either world all dead or Garrosh," as if those were the only two outcomes. Thrall made a terrible choice giving Garrosh the leadership. When she could have said something like "It's true Go'el helped defeat Deathwing/ectect, his choice in giving leadership to Garrosh caused all of these things."

Because if Thrall's credibility is shot it takes less blame from Garrosh which basically translates to Garrosh being found innocent. That's why.

Trials are supposed to be handled without bias. That's why it's being handled as such. If Thrall's credibility is shot and blame can in fact be placed on him for EVERYTHING that's happened, Garrosh goes free.

[Deleted]

Which still has nothing to do with the accusation. Tyrande can't honestly thinking that a war with the Horde was good for the Alliance and the world. And Thrall would still get the Dragon Soul.

I think the idea that Tyrande is trying to point to is one that Wrathion was shooting for when he switched sides and supported the Alliance, namely that the Alliance would win a war against the Horde, after much bloodshed. After that, there would be less conflict as the Alliance would take over the remnants of the Horde.

Basically, she's spouting what Wrathion was going for.

[Deleted]

Especially with how Ashenvale ended up.

Hell, a vision of the war on Ashenvale would be better for Tyrande's accusation.

Tyrande: "Sorry, Go'el, you saved the world, but your Garrosh mistake led to this."

[KrazyK923]

Because if Thrall's credibility is shot it takes less blame from Garrosh which basically translates to Garrosh being found innocent. That's why.

Trials are supposed to be handled without bias. That's why it's being handled as such. If Thrall's credibility is shot and blame can in fact be placed on him for EVERYTHING that's happened, Garrosh goes free.

Or she just pivots from Thrall's appointment of Garrosh to back to everything being his fault. Thrall's credibility is shot because of his own actions. Not because of some lie people are saying about him.

[Deleted]

That's what I'm talking about.

That's how it is trying to be spun to us, the readers, the enjoyers of the story (or lack thereof). It had to happen, and there was no getting around it.

Which is total bullshit.

And Thrall will not take any blame for it. He'll be exonerated in the end, because it was his bad decisions, but it ultimately "wasn't his fault".

The characters are intentionally presenting it that way. It's a trial. They've got a job to do. This includes only presenting one facet of a greater truth. Because that is how trials work.

[Shampro]

I want to move up from the Cata stuff, wheres my Zaela and Sylv/Vareesa continuation

[Deleted]

Because if Thrall's credibility is shot it takes less blame from Garrosh which basically translates to Garrosh being found innocent. That's why.

Trials are supposed to be handled without bias. That's why it's being handled as such. If Thrall's credibility is shot and blame can in fact be placed on him for EVERYTHING that's happened, Garrosh goes free.

But not in the way that was presented. At the end, it made look like Garrosh was actually good for the world.

[KrazyK923]

But not in the way that was presented. At the end, it made look like Garrosh was actually good for the world.

Exactly, its nonsensical stroking of Thrall as a character.

[r03dz]

Garrosh eats buns and tea for breakfast, not children.

[Deleted]

Am I the only one who likes BOTH Vereesa and Sylvanas? Recently I've been thinking how awesome it would be if those two'd meet again after all those years but I also thought that wouldn't happen until at least Alleria returns, and now in the next novel they are going to do just that. I'm so interested. Also though Genn Greymane will have only a minor role, I'm still looking forward to seeing him meeting Sylvanas again. Also all the Aspects being there except the Bronze Aspect Nozdormu, and that Vision of Time where Nozdormu's prime consort Soridormi dies and Kairoz watching in the background. And a while ago I made a few joke posts about Chromie being part of all of this and now she'll actually have an important role here! Bronze dragons taking the form of a Gnome mean serious business. How interesting is all of this!

[Destinas]

I'm glad that Sylvanas and Vereesa finally have time to speak to one another. I'm also glad that Kalecgos commented on Jaina's behavior.

[Immitis]

Well wouldn't Nozdormu know what is gunna happen before it even happens ? Is their a chance Nozdormu is already changing & he is trying to hide it from everyone.

it makes sense. nozdormu is as far as we know the only dragon whos still doing his damn job. he knew the dragons didnt have enough power to guard the timelines so he formed the timewalkers to bolster their forces.

what does ysera do? "ze dream is ze job of ze duridz nao, our jobz is done!"

alexstraza? "oh boo hoo we cant has babies anymore"

kalec completely disbanded the dragonflights.

i guess you could say wrathion is still doing his job as well though. protecting azeroth from the legion