Blizzard is making heroics harder than MoP : Good or Bad?

[Deleted]

Or people will out-gear them within a month or two and go back to complaining about them being easy.

Precisely - whatever route they follow for the duration of the xpac, 5mans will be launch-content focus only, at best. Then Blizz and ppl will move on to raids. Sure, they might throw in a few more higher ilvl dungs towards the end of the xpac, but they will still just act as -another- form of stepping-stone to accessing raid content. This will forever more be the focus, and given how modern Blizz want all players to see all end-game content in some form or another, nostalgic ppl must come to terms with the fact that the days of TBC are long-gone, never to return, e.g you're never again gonna have guilds farming 5man content as their personal form of end-game (or raids released towards the beginning of an xpac's lifespan).

[Deleted]

I've been tanking heroics on my warrior to get my valor cap for months now.


I don't have a shield.


Edit: Wouldn't mind having more difficult 5 mans again. Though some other quick option for valor cap would be nice since a raid clear / week is apparently not enough (why the hell not? >.<).

[Redmage]

Good, I just hope they have more of them as well. Heroics are my favorite thing to do on my alts.

[Coldkil]

Uh, we're talking about heroic dungeons. Not raids.

My fault, i realized it too late. Anyway, keeping up what i already said, i see heroic dungeons as transition content - they don't neeed to be too much difficult, but they don't need to be brainless zerg. They will become easier over time due to better gear obtained.

[Deleted]

Its pretty hillarious to watch people praising the difficulty that heroic dungeons should have, in their opinion, while at the same time, most of them, will probably nerdrage and quit after a wipe.

The common justification is that others are screwing up big time, then again that must be expected in random groups for harder dungeons.

I find that most are being dishonest. Thats what i believe.

[Alphamage]

Everything seems hard till you learn the mechanics or outgear it! Everything turns to be faceroll and boring as hell after a couple of months or less... like the Zandalari Heroics!

[Deleted]

Which Heroics do I actually remember as being HEROIC ?

Shattered Halls; Arcatraz; Botanica; Shadow Labyrinth; Shattered Halls; Magisters Terrace.

The End Time Heroics (Especially the last on - forgot the name); Zul Aman; Zul Gurub

Grim Batol; Blackrock Caverns

None from MoP.

Whilst this expansion has had fantastic raids, the 5 man content is a let down. But I still do 5 mans to cap my VP rather than LFR.
The boat Heroic scenario is good fun though.

I'd like the Heroics to be made roughly the same as those above.

[Falu]

It is good.
MoP's heroics were a joke.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I'm not suggesting that dungeon loot be better than LFR loot. Make it roughly equal so players have a choice: LFR or heroic dungeons. Of course there will be people who complain they're being "forced" to run both, but I don't think it would be wise to restrict options just for the sake of those who can't control themselves.

What an awful idea.

[chezwickcheese]

Awesome! But it won't last long. The noobs will cry and the devs will cave again.

I'm hoping this doesn't happen and the devs stand their ground in WoD.

I'm also hoping heroics are more in line with pre-nerf Cata heroics. I'd love that

[Pua]

So Taepsilum on the WoW forums stated some changes about challange modes and heroics, most notably making heroics more difficult than MoP.

link of his response here : http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...ngeons-in-wod/

I said in that thread that we should expect WoD heroics to be in and around the difficulty of End Time, the Well of Eternity, the Pit of Saron and possibly even the Halls of Reflection. They won't be as punishing as Cataclysm's launch ones or TBC, purely because of the fact they're in the queue with random players.

EDIT : here is some speculation about how the new gearing system might work if they up the difficulty of heroics. Ordered most easy to most difficult from top to bottom.

Scenarios --> Prepare you for normal dungeons.
Normal Dungeons --> Prepare you for LFR and Heroics
Heroic Scenarios --> Prepare you for LFR and Heroics -Requires Pre-made group.
LFR--> Prepare you for Heroics and Normal Raiding.
Heroics --> Prepare you for Normal Raiding and Challange Mode. -Requires Pre-made group.
Challange Mode --> Prepare you for Normal Raiding and Mythic. -Requires Pre-made group. (Probably will only drop heroic Ilvl loot.)
Normal Raiding -->Has a flex feature installed, harder than LFR but easier than Mythic.
Mythic Raiding --> Most Difficult Raiding difficulty.

I can get on board with most of that but, honestly, I think they need to have another look at scenarios. They looked good when announced, but have utterly failed to capture the imagination of anyone I know. Personally, I'd slap them throughout the levelling game where group quests used to be, and be done with them; as endgame, they're utterly underwhelming.

But rewards...

Level cap questing. [1st stage]
Level cap dungeons. [2nd stage]

Heroic mode dungeons = LFR. [3rd stage]
Challenge mode/Mythic dungeons = LFR w. normal mode raid drop from last boss. [4th stage]
Normal mode raids. [5th stage]
Heroic mode raids. [6th stage]
Mythic mode raids. [7th stage]

That's the route I'd take because heroic mode dungeons (and challenge/Mythic) would be harder and need better organised groups than LFR, so the rewards should be at least as good, if not better.

Will it happen, though?

Probably not. Hazzikostas wants everyone raiding, so even LFR with its guaranteed success will outstrip the most challenging of dungeons.

[Deleted]

Seems like the first months of WoD are going to be a total disaster. No flying, hard heroics like at the beginning of Cataclysm, LFR will be treated according to the given (by them) characterization as a "tour mode", not all upgraded models will be available at launch.Furthermore it will be extremely time consuming to raise professions since you will have to resort to ground mounts and almost impossible to focus on alts.

Blizzard is going hardcore with this expansion , and by that i mean that they aim to satisify only a small percentage of the community. Except that without the money of those whom they disregard completely, as it seems so far, the game isnt standing.

The way i play the game is with alts and flex raiding. I probably wont be affected too much by these changes but i believe that blizzard is taking the wrong turn again. Since there are difficulty levels there is no reason to make all experience once again the feeling of pugging Stonecore and Grim Batol. TBC dungeons dont count because they were premade and that indeed made them awesome.

[7seti]

Since there are difficulty levels there is no reason to make all experience once again the feeling of pugging Stonecore and Grim Batol. TBC dungeons dont count because they were premade and that indeed made them awesome.

As you said, there are difficulty levels. Blizzard is re-introducing the concept of max-level normal dungeons. So why should heroic, the harder difficulty, have to be easy when there is going to be an easier option available.

Easy mode and hard mode make a lot more sense than easy mode and super-easy mode.

[Deleted]

As you said, there are difficulty levels. Blizzard is re-introducing the concept of max-level normal dungeons. So why should heroic, the harder difficulty, have to be easy when there is going to be an easier option available.

Easy mode and hard mode make a lot more sense than easy mode and super-easy mode.

The harder difficulty is challenge modes.

[Osmeric]

I can get on board with most of that but, honestly, I think they need to have another look at scenarios. They looked good when announced, but have utterly failed to capture the imagination of anyone I know. Personally, I'd slap them throughout the levelling game where group quests used to be, and be done with them; as endgame, they're utterly underwhelming.

I think they could work as the PvE equivalent of battlegrounds, with larger groups.

[Tinykong]

MoP model was fine, imo. If you want a challenge, it's available via CMs.

[Terridon]

Really good. I soloed several bosses the first time i went into the dungeons, with my pretty green gear. Suffices to say i was disappointed. Severalt more was done without a healer, because the healer was too slow to follow.
Looking forward to something that can kill you, so you actually can see who's good and who's just average.

Only one problem for the lot of you that don't tank, is that there will be a a larger lack of tanks in the beginning of that expansion, since very few will dare, after they have the floor wiped clean with their face.

[Osmeric]

MoP model was fine, imo. If you want a challenge, it's available via CMs.

CMs lacked reward, and not everyone likes timed runs as a content type.

[Anzaman]

MoP model was fine, imo. If you want a challenge, it's available via CMs.

Expect Challenge Modes are nothing but rush, skip and AoE.

Hardly challenging...

[bufferunderrun]

It's good if they become a totally optional thing not being in the lfd and not being the most efficent way to farm valor/jp otherwise it's cata all over again, honestly i begin to see wod being dangerously similar to cata hope i'm wrong.