Should gear in LFR be based on performance?

[flaggel]

Almost every day there seems to be a new thread complaining about how dps are hitting with 12k dps and healers arent healing at all but I was pondering if Blizzard should reward gear based on performance such as pulling high on the meters or if dont have the gear to pull 100k (using dps as an example) you are rewarded gear for effort. Im saying this because it makes me mad when each week I run lfr and although im pulling 140k as a WW monk I never get a drop (and the dps is derived from the AP of your weapons) and there are guys who are pulling maybe 40k at most and get the drop and leave.

There has to be some way to prevent this in game like gating people at 50k dps or 80k etc. I just want to hear the opinions of others.

I used meters as maybe a staging point, and maybe I phrased what I said wrong I mean like how much effort you put into a fight increases your personal chance of when you get loot. Like for the person on Sha of Pride who leaves when he has 50% sha corruption and realizes on Sha Burst or whatever has to leave or the entire raid takes a whole ton of damage. The personal loot RNG percentage seems to be like 20% persay seeing how you can maybe get a piece of gear in the whole wing or none but have Blizz change it so the people who "perform" well in the way of giving a constant amount of damage but also dodging fire should get like an increased percentage on a drop from the boss and rolling for extra loot like scaling it to 5%. Think like "Good Player" in GTA 5 Online (horrible comparison) where you are rewarded for being a good player, good being someone who follows the guideline of the fight instead of standing in fire then whining when the healer doesnt heal you.

However I actually liked the way Cata LFR worked XD because atleast you saw the loot drop, and although its irrelevant, I still personally like knowing what is dropped rather than hoping I get a piece of gear I actually need rather than a duplicate piece (for sha crystal basically) or gold bag.

[Darsithis]

No. Never.

Pulling high dps numbers isn't a good thing in a lot of fights. In some fights what matters more is throttling of dps and handling adds/mechanics. A generic "everyone has to do xxx dps or they get nothing) is just a terrible idea, I'm sorry.

[Daetur]

Just because someone is pulling low DPS or HPS doesn't mean they're not putting in effort- that's the problem with a solution like this.

Perhaps you could base it off of activity, but you can't base it off of numbers.

[MoanaLisa]

Not that these things are overly required in Raid Finder but for DPS if you do something like this you'll never see a DPS class willingly drop a dispel or interrupt ever again. For all the people who say that Raid Finder encourages bad play, something like this would like encourage even worse play from the standpoint of paying attention to the mechanics that do need to have some attention paid to them.

Activity would be an obvious alternative but ways to cheese that without really doing much to help the group are easy to see. The return of rotation macros for one thing if casting is the only important thing.

[Barnabas]

Yes there should be rewards for good play to encourage the afk to not afk anymore. Now if you are asking for a system to punish players I don't support it.

[Bill Nye the Spy]

Gear in LFR should be just like heroics. Same iLvl and rare colored loot

After all LFR is for seeing the content, not used to gear up for raids. LFR shouldn't be used to gear up

[Pull My Finger]

No.

LFR is supposed to be doable without any major effort. Working as intended. You're being immature to begrudge others their loot just because you weren't lucky with your roll.

[Annarion]

Blizzard is finally getting around to using an actual strategy when they devise gameplay features and design philosophy. It’s much better to come up with a concept and then create a system that enforces that concept.

Blizzard now plans the gameplay around a model that is easy to learn and difficult to master. This means that as long as you’re pressing your main buttons, you should be doing a baseline amount of damage. What that number is can vary by encounter, but generally if you use your six main skills you should do alright. Unfortunately a lot of people haven’t grasped that. I honestly feel like they should implement a monk-style series of quests when you add new rotational abilities. That would also sate a lot of people who asked for class quests. Considering proving grounds and no new class, I think that it’s not too much of a stretch to ask for, especially when they’re doing something similar for the instant 90s.

Blizzard likes to make things intuitive whenever they can, but the simple fact is that most people cannot work out a solid rotation on tooltips alone. A great majority of people who are interested in performance get coached from other players/websites. If they could make a series of learning quests that taught you how to prioritize certain abilities, your performance floor for the average player would increase a fair bit. A lot of people I know don’t know anything about rotations, and they just press buttons when they light up. They don’t even know that they’re playing the game wrong. (Yes wrong, there is a right way and a wrong way, and it’s not defined by me, it’s defined by Blizzard.)

That same simple strategy of raising the performance floor can be applied to LFR mechanics. Let’s assume that there is a 25% chance of receiving loot on a given encounter. Let’s also assume that there are three mechanics in this encounter:

1) PvE is hard, there’s a fire that appears on the ground and ticks for damage.
2) PvE is really hard, and there’s a 5s cast random cone that one-shots you.
3) PvE can be really fun sometimes, and there’s a clickable spawn that gives you a stam/damage/healing buff.

You can easily coach people into paying more attention by having their performance of mechanics affect loot chance. You get one freebie tick of fire, but each tick after that reduces your chance at loot by 1%. Your chance reduction caps at 10%, for a final total of 15% chance at loot if you eat fire the whole fight. If you get caught in the one-shot, you get a debuff that lasts as long as you are fighting that boss in that instance. If you get hit by it again at any time, you’re instantly reduced to 15% loot chance. This does not stack with the fire reduction, so you ultimately always have a minimum 15% chance at loot. Each time you click the buff spawn, you gain an additional 1% chance at loot, again capping at 10% increase, for a grand total of 35% loot chance. All of the loot chance modifiers are on a per-pull basis, meaning that you’re not punished on your kill attempt for failing on wipes. You’d be able to offset a few mistakes in the fire by clicking the buff, too.

By giving a reward for doing well, and a punishment for playing poorly, you encourage the idea that mechanics are the major thing to look out for, not tunneling dps, or ignoring tank swaps. And by not making it a binary switch (dps too low, no loot), you encourage people to continue to improve, while not punishing them so much that they just quit.

[Itisamuh]

Nope, no change is needed.

[Part]

I would say yes but because I'm just awful at this game I'll have to go with no

[Herkaleez]

I dont think this its a good idea either. An example: on my monk the other day on imerseus about 20 secs into the fight I get meleed by the boss followed almost immediately by the annoying things that knock you up in the air (about 5 times) followed by a swirl that started right on top of me.. Now I can survive the melee or the swirl/knock up but not both at the same time and the only heals I got were some atonement splashes for 150kish. Your idea I get nothing because a majority I was inactive and damage done was low. In an unorganized situation where 25ppl have to work together there is too many uncontrollable thing that can happen for certain ppl to be punished when it may not be their fault.
And if you start making exceptions ppl will figure it out and start exploiting those ways to be "afk"and still get their gear

[Deleted]

No. No. No. No.

Basing something as loot drops on performance is ridiculous. I do like Daetur's idea of basing loot drops on activity.

[leaks]

Jealousy will get you nowhere in life.

[Feali]

It already is. It's just not working the way we think it is.
Right now it seems that the worst "standing in the fire, AFK, 20k DPS" people get all the loot.

[Celawien]

I wouldn't say performance based but more uptime based. The more you attack with a variety of spells/abilities the more likely you are to get gear. Anyone can sit there and spam 1 button through an entire boss fight and just move with the crowed or just sit there until you die and collect loot while only being alive for 1/4 of the fight. Too many times I've seen toons in higher iLvl gear doing less dps and less dmg then a fresh 90 I just finished. Last night case in point, I had just dinged a 90 warrior and with 5 pieces of Timeless Isle gear got into a LFR. I ended up at the end of the wing in 4th for overall dmg, dps was shit(70-90k I forget) but I was 4th on over all dmg. There's something wrong there, I know warriors are not THAT op.

[Giscoicus]

Just because someone is pulling low DPS or HPS doesn't mean they're not putting in effort- that's the problem with a solution like this.

Perhaps you could base it off of activity, but you can't base it off of numbers.

Low dps is definitely not putting in effort. You don't do bad when trying hard. High dps however, can be tunneling

- - - Updated - - -

I dont get everybody in this thread talking about activity

spamming icelance every GCD should count as contributting wholeheartedly right?

It needs to be based on performance. Not pure numbers, like dps/hps, but something like damage done to adds vs boss. Interrupts. Avoidable damage taken, etc. Healing could be based off of something like how many people fell below a certain threshold to unavoidable damage, or how much you heal vs how much damage is taken.

And have it scale by gear level. A 496 should not be expected to preform like 528, nor should a 528 only need to preform like a 496

[Ronduwil]

Pulling high dps numbers isn't a good thing in a lot of fights. In some fights what matters more is throttling of dps and handling adds/mechanics. A generic "everyone has to do xxx dps or they get nothing) is just a terrible idea, I'm sorry.

Exactly. There's no way to easily judge performance across raids. The standard varies from fight to fight and spec to spec. Even most of the players complaining on these forums are unqualified to judge whether or not someone performed well on a given fight. For example, let's take the complaint in the OP about underhealing. Suppose everyone follows mechanics flawlessly. With 6 healers all healing, most of them will end up overhealing like crazy and their HPS numbers will indicate that they did nothing, even though the raid went off without a hitch. Or take that statement in the OP about pulling about 140k. That means nothing to me. Was the 140K all on the correct target or was it being improperly applied to the wrong boss(es)? Were the right adds prioritized? Did that 140K DPS push the boss into a phase that the rest of the raid was unprepared for because they were still mitigating mechanics from the previous phase? Those are the kinds of questions you'd have to analyze in order to determine whether or not someone "deserves" loot.

My advice is this: quit thinking of loot as a reward, quit worrying about what others got or didn't get, what others did or didn't do, and focus more on what you're achieving and gaining through your own efforts. You really have very little control over the other stuff, so there's no sense in getting so worked up over it.

[Frozenbeef]

They should do what rift does, if you do things like interrupting/ avoiding special abilitys you get a buff that increases your damage :P

Obviously only on LFR as normal+ are expected to do things like that anyway...

[Matt0193]

I wish. I support healers by clutch healing tanks, Sac'ing tanks and blowing Aura at the right time. Thankfully there isn't a single item that's an upgrade for me from LFR, so I never need to do it this patch.

[Twoflower]

lfr is for people who dont want to raid seriously and for people who come back to catch up etc. It's the new heroic instances + emblem loot.

Why would they reward only the best geared players ? Makes no sense.