Should gear in LFR be based on performance?

[Louis CK]

Performance to get shit gear? Nah.

[Nihilostromrage]

I don't think loot in a random should be based on 'performance'. I honestly don't even think LFR should award loot at all.. just valor. The reward is you learn the fight and for people who cant raid to see content and feel like they're part of the story. Lfr is a kiddie roller coaster.. why should get loot for riding the tea cups. If you are so good that you're dominating in LFR.. get into a flex raid or normal raid.. than you can 'demand' gear based on 'performance'.. see how that works out.
Tanks and healers get loot first Imo anyway.. not who did more damage(cuz dps don't matter).

[Boxy213]

It would be a case of the rich get richer the poor get poorer maybe a guy right off the isle wants to try and get some gear and is trying his best. It wouldn't be fair for him to get dumped on and get no gear because of that

[tablespecd]

I think it should be. I'm tired of seeing people in 520ilvl gear pulling 40-50k dps. Maybe once those people learn how to play and can increase their numbers than they can start getting gear. Just a thought.

[Louis CK]

I think it should be. I'm tired of seeing people in 520ilvl gear pulling 40-50k dps. Maybe once those people learn how to play and can increase their numbers than they can start getting gear. Just a thought.

I don't understand this fixation with LFR gear. It's shitty gear, why bother withholding it from anyone? At 40-50k DPS they're not stepping into any real raids anyway, let them have their fun.

[Sansnom]

No where near rubbish. Flex is for people who can't commit to traditional raiding.

LFR is for experiencing the content. The only reason I raid normals and heroics is because the gear.

"If LFR was "seeing the content", then nobody would raid normal or heroic." Lol what? That's what it is. People do heroics for gear, not because they want to see the story again.
If you want to see the content, you better learn how to raid, or don't raid. It's simple. You can pet battle, flex, lfr, quest, level an alt, etc.

The point I was trying to make was LFR has become an extra step in gearing up alts, and its a bad one. That's why it should have the same ilvl as heroic dungeons, so you can choose between the two.

If LFR did not provide an upgrade, then what do you suggest to the people who do not, cannot, raid at the next level? For what ever reason? Too bad, it sucks to bad in this game, huh? Suck it up, better to learn play the game?

It is okay for you. You don't care. You have your normal and heroic raid. For the others. Too bad. Go find something else to do. That is pretty much what you are suggesting.

LFR is not part of the gearing. It is an optional addtional part. You do not need LFR gear to step into Flex. People like you know feel "force" to do LFR because you feel so compelled to have the best possible gear possible that you do all can to maximum your gear chances to acquire all the possible upgrade for that week.

If you hate LFR, then please stay out. You are not doing yourself or the people who can only do LFR any favors by being in there and complain about how bad or terrible experience it is.

[LeperHerring]

I think LFR gear should be based on the challenge and required skill of the content. That is to say, it should be ilvl 0 gear that can be used for transmog. I don't see the justification of giving gear for something that literally requires you to do nothing else than collect loot.

[trystero]

The 'gating' in this game is accomplished through ilvl. If you want the average players to pull higher damage in LFR, then raise the ilvl requirement. It's the only sensible way of doing it.

You cannot evaluate what is acceptable DPS in a vacuum. OP, you want to gate people at 80k DPS. On what fights? DPS will fluctuate widely on this tier more than perhaps any before. So maybe you want to add some percentile standard, "if you do under 20% of your spec's DPS on this particular encounter, you're kicked or banned from participating in LFR." Is this what you'd like to see? It would go a long way toward alienating Blizzard's customers, especially since it is the audience that LFR is intended for. We've designed a raid level of difficulty for the players who cannot devote time to raiding, who are not skilled enough to raid, who want to see the raid content that we've designed, etc, but those who don't perform well will be kicked for inconveniencing other players. Huh?

As others have also said, gating via DPS becomes a tunneling nightmare. There are times when you should be spreading or otherwise throttling your DPS (such as when handling a mechanic). Some other people have proposed a bizarre, complicated system which involves interrupts and raid utility. Or this proposal:

Dying to Durumu's beam should get you 0 loot because I really just dont know how at this point people still die to it...

How would that even work? Consider it from a design and programming perspective. You want Blizzard to track and respond to everything which happens in every LFR instance? I can't even fathom the amount of needless work and tuning it'd requirement. Imagine all of the resultant complaining. Guy waits in a 40 minute queue, comes in on Durumu, gets hit by the beam because he's never done the fight before, and has no shot at loot because of it. What a horrible system. Or a guy stands in some fire on Heroic Shockwave just because he's not very good at the game. And he's in the level of difficulty intended for him. But he doesn't win any loot because of his positional mistakes. I mean, let's be serious.

MoanaLisa's post makes some points which make sense at being implemented; though I don't agree with the disabling auto-attack, removing follow would help.

[Giscoicus]

The 'gating' in this game is accomplished through ilvl. If you want the average players to pull higher damage in LFR, then raise the ilvl requirement. It's the only sensible way of doing it.

You cannot evaluate what is acceptable DPS in a vacuum. OP, you want to gate people at 80k DPS. On what fights? DPS will fluctuate widely on this tier more than perhaps any before. So maybe you want to add some percentile standard, "if you do under 20% of your spec's DPS on this particular encounter, you're kicked or banned from participating in LFR." Is this what you'd like to see? It would go a long way toward alienating Blizzard's customers, especially since it is the audience that LFR is intended for. We've designed a raid level of difficulty for the players who cannot devote time to raiding, who are not skilled enough to raid, who want to see the raid content that we've designed, etc, but those who don't perform well will be kicked for inconveniencing other players. Huh?

As others have also said, gating via DPS becomes a tunneling nightmare. There are times when you should be spreading or otherwise throttling your DPS (such as when handling a mechanic). Some other people have proposed a bizarre, complicated system which involves interrupts and raid utility. Or this proposal:



How would that even work? Consider it from a design and programming perspective. You want Blizzard to track and respond to everything which happens in every LFR instance? I can't even fathom the amount of needless work and tuning it'd requirement. Imagine all of the resultant complaining. Guy waits in a 40 minute queue, comes in on Durumu, gets hit by the beam because he's never done the fight before, and has no shot at loot because of it. What a horrible system. Or a guy stands in some fire on Heroic Shockwave just because he's not very good at the game. And he's in the level of difficulty intended for him. But he doesn't win any loot because of his positional mistakes. I mean, let's be serious.

MoanaLisa's post makes some points which make sense at being implemented; though I don't agree with the disabling auto-attack, removing follow would help.

Dungeon journal explains the beam. Raid warning by Blizzard announces it. Eyesores don't hurt on LFR. It's an embarrassment that the goal of Durumu is nuke hard because you only have 8 living players after the beam.

- - - Updated - - -

If LFR did not provide an upgrade, then what do you suggest to the people who do not, cannot, raid at the next level? For what ever reason? Too bad, it sucks to bad in this game, huh? Suck it up, better to learn play the game?

It is okay for you. You don't care. You have your normal and heroic raid. For the others. Too bad. Go find something else to do. That is pretty much what you are suggesting.

LFR is not part of the gearing. It is an optional addtional part. You do not need LFR gear to step into Flex. People like you know feel "force" to do LFR because you feel so compelled to have the best possible gear possible that you do all can to maximum your gear chances to acquire all the possible upgrade for that week.

If you hate LFR, then please stay out. You are not doing yourself or the people who can only do LFR any favors by being in there and complain about how bad or terrible experience it is.

Tell Blizzard to remove tier trinkets and weapons and people will stay out.

[Louis CK]

I think LFR gear should be based on the challenge and required skill of the content. That is to say, it should be ilvl 0 gear that can be used for transmog. I don't see the justification of giving gear for something that literally requires you to do nothing else than collect loot.

Little to no skill required = Shitty gear. What's the problem here? You're upset because someone is scraping the bottom of the barrel for the worst gear possible in each tier? That's like telling a homeless man he can't dig through the trash behind a pizza place because he didn't work hard enough for it.

[Giscoicus]

Little to no skill required = Shitty gear. What's the problem here? You're upset because someone is scraping the bottom of the barrel for the worst gear possible in each tier? That's like telling a homeless man he can't dig through the trash behind a pizza place because he didn't work hard enough for it.

Even with the nerf ToT normal is harder than LFR. Why is ToT gear worse than LFR? Only thunder forged touch LFR and that's not including trinkets which done come close.

The gear is FAR better than it should be. Also te legendary cloak? Best item in the game obtainable from the easiest difficulty?

[Sansnom]

The reward is you learn the fight and for people who cant raid to see content and feel like they're part of the story. Lfr is a kiddie roller coaster.. why should get loot for riding the tea cups.

Why are the big kids bitching and moaning about the little kiddies riding a kiddies roller coaster and getting kiddies rewards?

[Giscoicus]

Why are the big kids bitching and moaning about the little kiddies riding a kiddies roller coaster and getting kiddies rewards?

Something about LFR trinkets being better than past tier heroic, LFR gear ring better than past tier normal. How would you feel if the new "kiddie" roller coaster was better than all the old rollercoasted considered to be adult rides?

[Terridon]

to OP:
Has been a lot of threads with exactly that, and overall it can't be done in a functional way. If you want to understand why, then try to find them and take a look. I will just give my short logical opinion based on all the other threads.
No. Never.

[Louis CK]

Even with the nerf ToT normal is harder than LFR. Why is ToT gear worse than LFR? Only thunder forged touch LFR and that's not including trinkets which done come close.

The gear is FAR better than it should be. Also te legendary cloak? Best item in the game obtainable from the easiest difficulty?

LFR gear = worst gear each tier. Don't be mad because people can easily get it. That makes no sense.

[Sansnom]

Something about LFR trinkets being better than past tier heroic, LFR gear ring better than past tier normal. How would you feel if the new "kiddie" roller coaster was better than all the old rollercoasted considered to be adult rides?

I don't care. Because the "kiddies" have their current "kiddies" roller coaster. The "big kids" have their current "big kids" roller coaster. Yet the "big kids" are always, always, always, constantly, complaining like "kiddies" about how fun the "kiddies" are having with their "kiddies" toys. So their current "kiddies" toy is better than your last "big kid" toy. So what? You can get your current "kiddies" toy which is better than their current "kiddies" toy.

It has been like since LFR was first introduced. The "big kids" moaning like "kiddies" about the "kiddies" having their toy.

[Lovisa]

Quick answer: No

Long answer:
It feels to have some performance thingy added but it is simply not possible to do that. How you gonna judge 6 healers? No one died during the whole boss enocunter and they receive a higher chance to get loot? How to judge the tanks? or the Damage Dealers? Maybe lowest damage taken? It's just not possible. If you bind it to the up or down votes to people, they will find a way to compromise that. I personally like the System in League of Legends, when you are done with your "instance" and you get to an overall stats page, where you can see the players performance and can judge them, and maybe if you want, you can speak to them.

[Louis CK]

I don't care. Because the "kiddies" have their current "kiddies" roller coaster. The "big kids" have their current "big kids" roller coaster. Yet the "big kids" are always, always, always, constantly, complaining like "kiddies" about how fun the "kiddies" are having with their "kiddies" toys. So their current "kiddies" toy is better than your last "big kid" toy. So what? You can get your current "kiddies" toy which is better than their current "kiddies" toy.

It has been like since LFR was first introduced. The "big kids" moaning like "kiddies" about the "kiddies" having their toy.

I'm going to assume here that your "big kids" are the Normal/HM raiders. Most of which don't give two shits about people getting LFR gear (especially the HM raiders). The majority of complaints are from the LFR heroes.

What does a Heroic raider care about what shitty gear people in LFR are getting?

Sure, there are probably a handful of Normal/HM raiders who will complain, but the large majority doesn't give a shit. People who are stuck in LFR due to their own lack of skill are the ones who cry about others getting LFR gear, I'm guessing because it makes them somehow feel better than they actually are when they complain about the "noobs".

[Giscoicus]

LFR gear = worst gear each tier. Don't be mad because people can easily get it. That makes no sense.

Legendary cloak is the worst gear? Wow, let me throw it out and equip the 5th cloak I coined from Immerseus.

And its not the fact that its the worst for that tier, its that it is better than past tier despite the past tier still being harder than LFR.

[Louis CK]

Legendary cloak is the worst gear? Wow, let me throw it out and equip the 5th cloak I coined from Immerseus.

And its not the fact that its the worst for that tier, its that it is better than past tier despite the past tier still being harder than LFR.

Using the legendary cloak to support your argument (which is a quest line, not a drop) is silly. It's one item from a long quest line that just happens to have items attainable via LFR. It's not like LFR drops legendaries every tier.

If someone is really upset that someone is getting the shittiest gear a tier has to offer, they have some personal issues they need to address. Just because it's purple and potentially better than a previous tier doesn't mean it's good gear for that tier.

Honestly, it makes no difference, I still wreck most people 10-15 ilvls higher than me, because most people are bad. Let them get their useless gear to stand around in and be useless. Don't you have better things to worry about?