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  1. #41
    yeah right xD

    Infracted
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-12-17 at 11:55 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyana View Post
    I kind of agree too, but I'm still using KJC because it's the most universal and convenient choice and while I might lose dps on some bosses, it's needed for others (talking about heroic) and being in non-hardcore guild means I can just go with default setting without changing before every boss. Did most of the normal SoO with AD but heroic requires way too much moving.
    I don't see how MF would be worse than KJC on an encounter like Galakras which has little to no movement. Yet, you pick KJC? As for AD on that encounter, realistically you get 1 single extra Dark Soul, which isn't a massive DPS increase overall (enough for you to consider losing it for better movement), yet you can use MF which is a calculable increase virtually on cooldown. I find your logic perplexing. I certainly see the argument between AD and MF, but not MF and KJC.

  3. #43
    Mechagnome Deyana's Avatar
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    I don't really "pick" anything, I'm a slacker in a slacking guild and Galakras HC is a farm boss anyway so it doesn't matter. If I try to imagine how the fight goes, I'd still favor KJC over MF because our adds are stacked most of the time and the little dps gain from RoF is not such a big deal anyway. There are the arrows and fireballs to move from so it would not be completely useless. AD even better. I know it's "just one more DS", but in fight like this it's cool to have one ready on demand.

  4. #44
    The gain in damage from an extra DS in affliction or demo compared to an extra DS in destro isn't exactly the same. Thus its a stronger talent for demo (who really relies on spending DF during multiple proc moments) or even aff snapshotting uber dots. Shorter fights favor AD which as things become more and more farm and die faster and faster it becomes a stronger talent. You also tend to push phases faster thus less hazards, less having to move for stuff, more wiggle room for healers to save your butt, etc. That said on things like h.paragons I don't think I'd ever drop KJC simply because you are running for your life so much of the fight. Siegecrafter can also have quite a few mobility moments. Plus with murphy's law if you talent AD on siegecrafter you will be the target of every damn sawblade, mine, and laser. H.Garrosh can go either way but the impact of a single DS over a nearly 15 minute fight is far more diluted than a 3-5 minute farm zerg kill so I'll take reliability of KJC there.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Werst View Post
    The gain in damage from an extra DS in affliction or demo compared to an extra DS in destro isn't exactly the same. Thus its a stronger talent for demo (who really relies on spending DF during multiple proc moments) or even aff snapshotting uber dots. Shorter fights favor AD which as things become more and more farm and die faster and faster it becomes a stronger talent. You also tend to push phases faster thus less hazards, less having to move for stuff, more wiggle room for healers to save your butt, etc. That said on things like h.paragons I don't think I'd ever drop KJC simply because you are running for your life so much of the fight. Siegecrafter can also have quite a few mobility moments. Plus with murphy's law if you talent AD on siegecrafter you will be the target of every damn sawblade, mine, and laser. H.Garrosh can go either way but the impact of a single DS over a nearly 15 minute fight is far more diluted than a 3-5 minute farm zerg kill so I'll take reliability of KJC there.
    Agree. KJC on garrosh also opens up a more mobile dps group that can include warlocks, which depending on strat can be quite advantageous.

    Also I think it's a mistake to underestimate the use of AD on Galakras for destro. extra crit on AOE packs with lots of shadowburn cleave thrown in is pretty nice to have. On farm you don't really need to avoid fire as religiously, but on progression KJC wasn't bad for keeping the AOE going while staying out of the flaming arrow patches.

  6. #46
    I like to take KJC initially as I learn a fight and eventually switch to AD as I'm more comfortable with where there's movement in the fight. That being said, the only fight where AD has been mandatory for me has been on H garrosh (soloing both engineers).

  7. #47
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsgid View Post
    So are there any fights that it would be more beneficial to use grim supr and/or AV over kjc as destro? Or should inkust stick to grim sac and kjc?

    Also for affliction I know grim of supr is the go to talent but does anyone use AV over kjc on particular fights?
    I'm only 5/14 in 10H, but main spec Affliction. I can say that I've never even considered dropping KJC as Affliction. I use GrimServ very rarely, e.g. Protectors H (for an extra interrupt on Rook's phase -- our comp is not always interrupt heavy), but it's because of my aversion to micromanagement. GrimServ can pump out a little more DPS if you align it with your cooldowns, but that can be really tedious. Not everyone wants an optional button to push for a 1% gain.

    If boss mechanics let me hold still long enough that MF outperforms the DPS loss of no KJC, I'll do more damage as offspec + MF (e.g. Immerseus H).

    It sounds like you're normally Destruction? I've found nothing outperforms MF + Destro on Galakras H. I suspect Spoils is identical.
    The plural of anecdote is not "data".

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcanasm View Post
    It sounds like you're normally Destruction? I've found nothing outperforms MF + Destro on Galakras H. I suspect Spoils is identical.
    Like already said some times in this topic: MF is pure garbage for destro. If you don´t need to run KJC, then go AD, but NEVER go MF.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcanasm View Post
    It sounds like you're normally Destruction? I've found nothing outperforms MF + Destro on Galakras H. I suspect Spoils is identical.
    I believe KJC would outperform it, but if it doesn't AD still out performs it.

    Also AD outperforms MF insanely hard on spoils HC.... its like not even comparable, having that extra cd during BL when noone else has is important (at least the way we do it, cds on first and second big add, then no cds, but BL at 3rd and cds at 4th).
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyeranth View Post
    Why dont we just have thrall and Malfurion whip it out and someone can measure and then we can be done with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TerraMagus View Post
    We know Deathwing's plan perfectly well.
    Bang Alexstrasza and Ysera
    Do lines of coke and have a bitchin' party for next ten thousand years

  10. #50
    On a fight like heroic immerseus where you're constantly moving out of stuff and aoe'ing adds I find KJC useful so I can continue aoe'ing with F&B incin at least.

  11. #51
    I normally use Sac on almost all fights tbh, but I can see Sup being useful on say.. Spoils. Since you can use the Observer to eat the enrage buff on the Mantid side.
    Then regarding the level 90 talents, I probably use KJC to much tbh :P
    I use KJC for Immers, mainly because of all the movement ect.
    Protectors I tend to go with either KJC or AD
    Norushen I usually always go KJC just for the movement, but I could probs use AD
    On Sha I always use AD since theres VERY little movement, with the only movement being when the reflections spawn, prisons and sometimes swelling.
    Galakras really depends on what my job is, if im doing towers I pref KJC but if Im on the ground i would go with either AD or MF.
    On Jugg I use KJC but can probably get away using AD depending on where your group tanks IJ.
    For Dark Sham I juse KJC because of the heavy movement.
    Nazgrim, use KJC since kiting assas, or moving from aftershock. Could use AD though.
    Malkorok I always use AD due to the only movement being from Slams, and moving into the purple swirlys.
    Spoils I mainly use KJC but AD also works.
    Thok, I always use KJC just because of the movement from kiting or getting out of the way/repositioning.
    Siegecrafter, usually on belts for my guild so KJC but would also probably use KJC if I was on the ground just because all of the stuff to get out of.
    Klaxxi, use either AD or KJC. Not a ton of movement so AD is def nice.
    Garrosh, I personally always use KJC just because of Desecrates, Add Kiting during Empowered Whirling and just alot of other things.

    Thats what I personally use, probably should use AD alot more tbh.
    But use whatever your most comfortable with, if you are always looking to move while casting just go with KJC.

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