Heroic Thok 25 man

[Bonsaii]

Hello all, my guild is beginning Thok and I'm not really sure how to use cooldowns. I've received a lot of conflicting advice and would like help.

Our available players are as follows:

Tanks
Prot Pally
Guardian Druid

Off-tank possible is a Warrior, but hes a better DPS.

Ranged DPS
4 Hunters
2 Boomkins
1 Elemental
5 Warlocks (One is meh though)
2 Mages
1 Spriest

Melee DPS
2 Warriors
1 Enhancement
1 Windwalker
2 Rogues
2 Ret Pallies

Healers
3 Shamans
1 Pally
2 Disc
1 Holy Priest (Undergeared, but has completed fight as a resto druid main)
1 Druid
0 Monks (Anyone wanna join? :P)


Here are logs from our last few weeks, we haven't done many Thok attempts (1 or 2)
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-hfhsqbk1wsvah6bh/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ixjhtawdvhyfh68w/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-y311igr2f8bnbpz7/
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-laog883aqjsr7hzk/

I'm figuring healer wise, we could bring all 8 and see if we hit enrage since we outgear the content like crazy.
Our best DPS are:
3 Locks
2-3 Hunters
2 Boomies
Ele
2 Mages
Spriest
2 Wars
Enhance
WW (is eh, but pretty good when he's tunneling a boss)
2 Rogues
1 Ret pally (Our 2nd is mediocre and behind on gear)

[Migraine]

Cd rotation

1 Shamans AG
2 warrior A banner and shout
3 rouges smoke bomb
4 dps shaman htt
5 2 x shaman SLT ( 1 for each group)
6 Resto shammy htt + Dev aura
7 devotion aura + holy priest hymn during the Dev aura
8 warrior b banner and shout
9 resto shammy htt devotion aura
10 HoP resto druid and tranq
11 personals and collapse onto the remaining spirit link totem

You still have a few other cool downs that you can use in that such as a third htt, what I would do is run through the rotation and see where the weaknesses are and drop another cd in.

If you start calling these around 4 stacks of acceleration then just keep calling them it should last you through to 24ish stacks, as long as you get there and do a normal kite phase these CDs will have reset for the next phase. In the next phase give a hop to your ele shaman get him to pop ascendance, AG etc. and melt the bats. Your priests need to sort a rotation out for mass dispelling from this point onwards, you really need to stress this to them.

On the 2nd transition send a healer with the people kiting to look after them and make sure the raid isn't too spread as they will still need dispels and healing.

Eight healers is probably overkill but like you say you should have the dps anyhow.

[Nitros14]

We killed the fight last week for the first time. 8 healed it, DPS isn't a problem at all, only survival.

You can watch us being bad at the fight here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCvKQ-os0F8

It only took us 23 attempts and we aren't great (took 60+ on both malkorok and spoils), if we can kill it you can kill it.

We did our cooldowns based on the number of deafening shriek stacks the boss was at. Each cooldown was given a stack to be cast on.

Here's ours for example: Screech #

3 - AG(1)

5 - Demo Banner

7 - Rallying Cry

8 - HoP+Tranq

10 - Smoke Bomb/AG(2)

12 - Spirit Link+Healing Tide(1)

14 - Hop+Tranq/AG(3)

16 - Smoke Bomb/Healing Tide(2)

17 - Devo Aura(1)/Healing Tide(3)

19 - Devo Aura(2)+Hymn

22 - Devo Aura(3)+Hymn

24 - Healing Tide(4)

25 - Barrier+Personals

[Anzen]

Your logs are kind of redundant at the moment, try get a couple of pulls in asap and update your original post with the new logs. I notice that Hand of Protection wasn't used at all (it gives interrupt immunity to the person it's on for it's duration), along with tranquility (HoP/DA & tranquility is balanced, I promise, though you may already have known this.

I'd definitely say go with eight healers at this stage, the berserk will in no way be an issue for you. You should be aiming to always have a cooldown up per deafening screech. The rotation Migraine linked looked pretty good though you want to also utilize the ret & prots hand of protection (the Holy Paladin can bubble IIRC so won't need it).

Hmm... try get some logs, not really much else I can say.

Just reminded me of a picture I made during progress : http://i.imgur.com/LyUlBiY.png

[Deleted]

Healers
3 Shamans
1 Pally
2 Disc
1 Holy Priest (Undergeared, but has completed fight as a resto druid main)
1 Druid
0 Monks (Anyone wanna join? :P)

/rw (1 accel) Boomy(1) Tranq
/rw (2 accel) Warrior Shout + Baner
/rw (4 accel) / !SELF CD! / Boomy (2) Tranq
/rw (5 accel) Smoke bomb (1) + Diso Priest Shield
/rw (6 accel) Smoke bomb (2) + Dps shammy HTT
/rw (7 accel) Spriest Vamp
/rw (8 accel) Shammy(1) HTT + Ascen (Pally (1) BoP)
/rw (9 accel) Pala holy CDs
/rw (11 accel) Holy priest Hymn (Pally (2) BoP) /
/rw (15 accel) Dudu Tranq (Pally(3) BoP) / Dps shammy HTT
/rw (19 accel) Shammy(2) HTT + Ascen / Pally (1) AM
/rw (22 accel) Shammy(3) HTT + Ascen / Pally (2) AM + Pally (3) AM (chain AM)
/rw (25 accel) HSy

1-7 are important because of 2 phase bats
8+ is long AOE heals chain like HTT , Hymn , Tranq and in this CD you don't have any gap by 8-27. Ofc all shammans should spec into conductivity and use Healing Rain (with 3 resto shammans it's faceroll boss)
All priest should use Divine Star (good Spriest can make 1/2 of normal healer healing through that(even more than whole Holy palla heal)

[Deleted]

To use things like hand of protection is extremely difficult task for most of the "people" in the World of Haste & Item Level

[Deleted]

While theres probably almost as many ways to do it as theres guilds, just make sure you have your major CDs well spread out. We just pop a major one at 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24. So 5 major and personal on one of them are needed, which you definitely have. Majors being tranq, tide, hymn, barrier+bomb (one for each group). Most CDs last long enough to take care of ~4 stacks by themselves. Add an extra CD or two (various heal-on-damage or boomkin tranq for example) for the ~3-8 stack part during bats and your'e done.

[Bonsaii]

To use things like hand of protection is extremely difficult task for most of the "people" in the World of Haste & Item Level

We use it, but our only log I had available we had our dipshit shaman do CD's and he sucked at them.
Also, bopping a boomkin isn't a great idea since we can symby unending resolve.

And we're more than that, we're the world of a shitload of cooldowns.

[Pennoyer]

The hardest part of the fight is when the bats come down, if you make him get the poison first. The combined dmg from bat aoe + poison aoe + screeches will be a lot of damage. AG on an Ele Shaman helps a lot here. Once you get over that hump it gets easier. Try not to blow all your 3 min CDs for the first stack and save some for the bat stack phase.

Locks, Hunters, and Mages are great DPS classes for this fight, but unfortunately they don't really bring general raid CDs so you're going to be a bit lacking there. Luckily shaman and divine star throwers are OP for this fight. A shaman with Ascendance up along with AMs or a BoP is itself a CD that can last you a few screeches.

[Yertillon]

Just reminded me of a picture I made during progress : http://i.imgur.com/LyUlBiY.png

ugh that is amazing

[Weightlifter]

Must be fun being a conqueror token user in your raid.

[Bonsaii]

Must be fun being a conqueror token user in your raid.

It's only 13. And one left recently so it's 12 now. Thats a little over a third of our roster. 25 man luxury.

- - - Updated - - -

The hardest part of the fight is when the bats come down, if you make him get the poison first. The combined dmg from bat aoe + poison aoe + screeches will be a lot of damage. AG on an Ele Shaman helps a lot here. Once you get over that hump it gets easier. Try not to blow all your 3 min CDs for the first stack and save some for the bat stack phase.

Locks, Hunters, and Mages are great DPS classes for this fight, but unfortunately they don't really bring general raid CDs so you're going to be a bit lacking there. Luckily shaman and divine star throwers are OP for this fight. A shaman with Ascendance up along with AMs or a BoP is itself a CD that can last you a few screeches.

Yeah I was gonna have the shaman AG that. Would his Ascendance be up? Lava beam OP. I think if we stall out the phases right, 3 minute DPS CD's should come up for bats right?

Also, since barrier allows casting(I think it still does on Thok), when we stack right before we push him, could we use that with a shaman healer ascendance? I feel like that would take 2-3 Screeches.

[Teye]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned... You have 8 possible HoPs in your raid. That's 1 for each healer, 1 for each Boomkin (Heart of the Wild Tranq is huge.) and 1 for your Shadow Priest for Glyphed VE (Also a huge amount of healing).

Lining those up and executing the CDs and extra healing from each HoP will be a MASSIVE boost to the number of stacks you can push in phase 1. Be careful not to push past 30 though...

[Bonsaii]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned... You have 8 possible HoPs in your raid. That's 1 for each healer, 1 for each Boomkin (Heart of the Wild Tranq is huge.) and 1 for your Shadow Priest for Glyphed VE (Also a huge amount of healing).

Lining those up and executing the CDs and extra healing from each HoP will be a MASSIVE boost to the number of stacks you can push in phase 1. Be careful not to push past 30 though...

Yeah, I mean, boomkin can do without the HoP if needed though. The symby for unending is nice. I guess I could save it for a DPS increase.
I'll come back with a CD order in a few hours. I appreciate all your input so far.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I'm still trying to get a handle on the timing of the fight. How long should P2 be? If we go to 28 stacks and then stall phase 2 for a standard amount of time, what will be back up? Should we look to kill bats in the second P1 and then push right after they die?

We will likely be doing poison, water, fire.

[Teye]

Yeah, I mean, boomkin can do without the HoP if needed though. The symby for unending is nice. I guess I could save it for a DPS increase.
I'll come back with a CD order in a few hours. I appreciate all your input so far.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I'm still trying to get a handle on the timing of the fight. How long should P2 be? If we go to 28 stacks and then stall phase 2 for a standard amount of time, what will be back up? Should we look to kill bats in the second P1 and then push right after they die?

We will likely be doing poison, water, fire.

28 in 1, 10-14 (Depending on what your raid is comfortable with) in 2, 24+ in 1, then repeat. Also, I recommend using Rallying Cry when your healers stop healing to avoid the 30 stack. Really helps with keeping people from dying, and doesn't mess with the 50% phase change mechanic.

[Pennoyer]

It's only 13. And one left recently so it's 12 now. Thats a little over a third of our roster. 25 man luxury.

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah I was gonna have the shaman AG that. Would his Ascendance be up? Lava beam OP. I think if we stall out the phases right, 3 minute DPS CD's should come up for bats right?

Also, since barrier allows casting(I think it still does on Thok), when we stack right before we push him, could we use that with a shaman healer ascendance? I feel like that would take 2-3 Screeches.

I don't think barrier allows casting, I think it just prevents pushbacks? I remember we talked about it and we said it wasn't going to work, although I'm not sure if we actually tested it.

We generally just repeat the order for stack phase 1 for stack phase 3, so we save all those 3 minutes for that one. Somehow we're able to power through the bat phase with AG chain lightning the bats, followed by my tranq, followed by a moonkin tranq, and then whatever you have left in your kit that you can throw at it like barriers, smokebombs, and strong personals (even if they don't hit the whole raid, they help direct smart healing to people who need it). 2 Moonkin tranqs are nice if they take a BOP or Unending Resolve.. since it's a 8 min CD you can just fit them in wherever you need to shore up CDs for a particular phase. I think we do use some of the warrior CDs from stack phase 1 on stack phase 2 around 15+ screeches, just as they're coming off CD for us. It probably won't be the end of the world if you have to stack around 20 instead of 25 or 30, depending on your DPS.

Divine Star is ridiculously good for this fight, so having 4 will be huge. You may even need them to coordinate so they aren't firing them all off at the same time because you have so many.

[Frozendekay]

As long as you kite properly there will be 3 minutes between Screech phases. We just do 28-30 for all phases, works fine.

[Sinthetik]

Start with 8 and work your way down. With item upgrades and this far into the tier, dps will likely not be an issue. The thing you will need to really learn is how to force a transition quickly. Getting your raiders to react quickly to stacking up. I assign healthstones as well to one of the sketchier screeches (with our cd rotation it's usually screech #6). If you try and wait til the last second to transition, you'll find your raid going from stable to very dead in seconds. Takes a little time to get a good feel for it. Make sure you're using a melee stack and a ranged stack. We use Healing Rain and Efflo as a sort of guide for where the two groups stack (Our melee stacks on the left edge of efflo, ranged on the right). Can't stress what someone above said about mass dispels. Things can go to crap quickly without solid dispels during Fixate phase. GL.

[willemh]

We are currently also working on Thok. Had a few attempts where we managed to kill the bats with only 1-2 people dead. The other attempts were mostly phase 1/early bat wipes.

Our cooldowns are:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

Our logs are:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7bz07zlg8npfr414/

The healing seems really tough for this fight, more tough that it should be with our gear/the gazillion cooldowns assigned. We frequently waste attempts in phase 1 because 3-4 people die to a shout randomly, is there something we are missing healing wise? Also, is having 10 melee and only 6 ranged dps in your group a problem in 25man? Lastly, should our warlocks spec out of destro for this fight? Looking at top WoL logs for this fight destro seems to do comparable damage to affliction for this fight but our warlocks are complaing allot about not having many instant attacks as destro, how are other destro locks handeling this?

[Deleted]

We are currently also working on Thok. Had a few attempts where we managed to kill the bats with only 1-2 people dead. The other attempts were mostly phase 1/early bat wipes.

Our cooldowns are:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0

Our logs are:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7bz07zlg8npfr414/

The healing seems really tough for this fight, more tough that it should be with our gear/the gazillion cooldowns assigned. We frequently waste attempts in phase 1 because 3-4 people die to a shout randomly, is there something we are missing healing wise? Also, is having 10 melee and only 6 ranged dps in your group a problem in 25man? Lastly, should our warlocks spec out of destro for this fight? Looking at top WoL logs for this fight destro seems to do comparable damage to affliction for this fight but our warlocks are complaing allot about not having many instant attacks as destro, how are other destro locks handeling this?

You have pretty crapy heal composition (2 holy pala, no SPriest and only 3 chain aoe heals (tranq etc.)). You should consider taking 8 heals or respec your disco into holy. If you have more shamans in guild, you should take them to group (even dps HTTs are op here). Ofc bats need to be chain stuned.