My suggestions to fix LFR

[Krazzorx]

As one of those casuals who plays 20+ hr a week but has no intent of ever getting on vent again, I am frustrated with LFR.

It would be fine if groups got together and just did their stuff and killed watered-down bosses.

But this trolling and griefing and generally being lame shit, I'm a grown-up, I've been one for quite some time now, and I'm tired of it.

One of the things they definitely said they will be fixing is the vote to kick. They've stated a few times that it works well for 5 mans, not so with LFR. Too easily abused.

[Normie]

One of the things they definitely said they will be fixing is the vote to kick. They've stated a few times that it works well for 5 mans, not so with LFR. Too easily abused.

Well, the way that vote kick was working with guild groups in LFR in 4.3 was no good either. You do need to be able to kick people during combat and looting. You don't really need to be able to kick too many more of them than at present.

A big problem is identifying people who are doing the trolling. Right now I don't know of a simple way to know who blew a Battle Horn. The Battle Horn is such a useful gizmo that I would hate to see it removed from raids. But I would like to be able to know who blew it.

[Ronduwil]

It requires no third party addon and never has. The battle tag system functions like a social network allowing a player to add friends of friends. Then group up. It is your daunt you are antisocial. If you really think groups take 2-3 houes to form you're a moron, groups clear the entire raid in that time.

I speak from personal experience. I spent 2-3 hours one weekend in about 10 different oqueue waitlists. When I finally got in a group we wiped on Immerseus like three times before disbanding. Thanks, but no thanks. I'll run Flex with my guild when they do it, and lately that's been not at all. For those reasons, LFR is still my best bet for collecting legendary quest drops.

P.S. I love how everyone who disagrees with you is either a moron or a "shitter."

- - - Updated - - -

dono what you have been smokeing but.. how does flex take 2 hours too get up and running? i usally just pop up my OQfind some grp, wait list me and usally grp is going within 15 min

What hours? That has not been my experience at all. Granted, I play late nights and weekends.

[Sierra85]

LFR is still my best bet for collecting legendary quest drops.

I find if you can get your flexi's done early, like after they just have reset you can generally find some pretty good groups with high ilvl players who are chasing an elusive trinket etc.

[hakujinbakasama]

LFR is garbage and needs to go. The players made it what it is and I won't flinch at all when it's gone.

And I don't mean poor DPS. I mean general douchebaggery. Intentionally ruining other peoples time.

Rather than that can we just kick the players and remove them instead? I have always felt that the worst thing about WoW is its players not Blizzard.

[Ronduwil]

LFR is not used by lots and lots anymore. The completion rates have plummeted and queue times skyrocketed. The mode is losing players and fast. Many only use it to see the kill and unsub afterwards, which means maybe one week of heavy usage.

Now you're the one who's delusional. Queue times in LFR are the same as they have ever been. 5-15 minutes for a healer, 15-45 minutes for a DPS. On top of that you can queue for multiples at one time so as soon as I'm done with one LFR I'm zoning right into another. With the exception of one bad run on Sunday night in which my group wiped on Sha of Pride four times every boss was a one-shot this week. If your LFR experiences have really been so horrible I can only conclude that you must have played a factor in that. Judging from your attitude here I wouldn't be surprised if you drove off tank after tank by raging at them, calling them retards, and raging at the "shitters" in your group.

Retards is a good description. If you cannot process simple commands like face the assassin or dont stand in front of the angry dinosaur then you have a mental deficiency, and are an accurate description of 87% of LFR.

And an accurate description of 87% of normal mode raiders their first time in. When you're running LFR expect for 75% of your group to be doing any given fight for their first time in their current role. When you're running Flex or Normal you're running with players who have done the same fights over and over for over two months. Of course facing the assassin is going to be much easier for them because they know what they look like and where they're coming from. Similarly, if you've done the fight 10 times you know that the dinosaur is going to chase the furthest players away up and down the hall, so you are able to steer clear of the middle. Inexperienced is not the same as mentally deficient.

[threads]

Problem is SoO lfr only being set at 496. Bump it up to 500 something and all the people with ungemmed timeless gear and green weapons/trinket will actually go back to ToT to get some gear first.

[Shelly]

I just want a back-end "upvote" system. Where at the end of a raid I can upvote those I enjoyed playing with and it tries to matchmake me into groups with them later.

[MoanaLisa]

I just want a back-end "upvote" system. Where at the end of a raid I can upvote those I enjoyed playing with and it tries to matchmake me into groups with them later.

I have to say that I always raise an objection to this sort of system due to the potential for abuse--it's better than downvoting though--but it did suggest to me that perhaps Blizzard should start matchmaking those with higher numbers of kicks together. Although I suppose someone trying to get geared up and gain some experience could get put into some sort of death spiral of being forever matched with trolls and those who aren't interested in getting better. Bad for the game in that case.

[Pancaspe]

Blizzard should establish a Minimum DPS requirement to get loot or Valor.
If you fail to meet the minimum, and that should be an easily achievable number if you are trying, then no loot, no valor.

Same for HPS for healers.

[Ronduwil]

Blizzard should establish a Minimum DPS requirement to get loot or Valor.

What will that DPS requirement be? What if the tank derps up front and you're pulling the most DPS so you grab aggro and instantly die. You should get no loot for the entire fight because you did the least damage, right? Or how about if you're in the nest group, on the conveyor belt, on engineer duty, or an any of the numerous crucial tasks that require high burst damage but will ultimately destroy your overall DPS for the fight. No loot for you?

Same for HPS for healers.

So if you're grouped with four heroic-geared healers and they keep everyone constantly topped off you're screwed because your HPS will be low no matter what you do.

When people make suggestions like that I have to wonder if they've actually raided before.

[TheWindWalker]

Blizzard should establish a Minimum DPS requirement to get loot or Valor.
If you fail to meet the minimum, and that should be an easily achievable number if you are trying, then no loot, no valor.

Same for HPS for healers.

Wouldn't work for healers on the grounds of their HPS is effected by the others. Just a few patches ago if there were two disc priests with any sense and the bare minimum ilvl to get into that raid, no non-absorb healer was going to be able to get significant healing in between all the DA and SS going around. They've severely curbed that but the same issue can come up if a couple overgeared Pallies join up and non-stop spam.

With DPS they'd have to set it very, very low as well. We're talking 80k on Garrosh or the backlash would be intense.

[Dimmune]

Because Flex still requires a third party addon, ever-escalating gear requirements (530 a few weeks ago, 540 now), and about 2-3 hours to organize. I queue for 5 LFR instances at once, run dailies and/or dungeons, and knock out two or three LFRs at one time in 2-3 hours. While I got my dailies done and collected my Secrets of the Empire you were still waiting for your oqueue group to get going. What's casual and fun about your way?

Flex doesn't require 3rd party addons ANYMORE. With the new tech that has been added recently. Building groups across regions is easier than ever without having to add ppl to your battletags if you don't want to. Just need to get the word out about it still, not many ppl know about it still. Press "O" Go to the Raid Tab on the bottom. Click the Red Button "Other Raids" and enjoy. This feature is being built upon as we speak for WoD. It will be improved and will be easier to find. To get back on topic, I also don't Que for LFR. Nothing will help that until the toxic attitudes disappear which is sad because they never will. Accountability is the only thing that comes to mind when thinking about this topic.

[Ronduwil]

Nothing will help that until the toxic attitudes disappear which is sad because they never will. Accountability is the only thing that comes to mind when thinking about this topic.

The "toxic attitudes" are vastly over-exaggerated. Most of my LFRs go smoothly. Everyone once in a while I'll stumble across a bad run. For the most part, however, players work hard and even the ones who are behind the curve are willing to learn. Sometimes you get a dud that has to be kicked, but that's actually pretty rare. My non-guild flex experiences have been far worse than my LFR experiences.

[satimy]

The satchel is not solving what is a community problem where the experience for tanks and healers is downright horrible.
If you need to bribe them, then something is seriously wrong.

Lack of accountability is equally present in any random content, so is not an LFR problem.
Its a community problem which made LFR necessary in the first place, with traditional raiding being so inaccessible to the inconvenienced.
Stop trying to fix what isn't broken, but made the way it is by your fellow players.

The reasons for low dps aren't always obvious, and so some automated ranking or other feature based on it can never be truly fair.
If a player is afking through, then its a the choice of the vast majority in the raid to let them continue.
Tanks should stop pulling, and if someone is intent to keep in combat to avoid a kick, then let them die and maybe take a hit on your own repairs if it gets rid of them.
You complain about lack of accountability, but it is the rest of the raid that isn't living up to their responsibility in letting those people get away with it.

Everyone whose not afk has a 2 hour vote kick timer

[Sansnom]

Blizzard should establish a Minimum DPS requirement to get loot or Valor.
If you fail to meet the minimum, and that should be an easily achievable number if you are trying, then no loot, no valor.

Same for HPS for healers.

Would not work. And would not be fair. Different people, different skill set. Some people can achieve very high DPS, some others will struggle. That is why there are World First raiders, Server First raiders, Heroic raiders, Normal raiders etc.

You are talking about LFR. The bar is set very low so people who cannot raid Flex or higher has a chance to do some raiding. Why penalize them for raiding at the lowest difficulty? Why are people so uptight about doing more DPS/HPS than others? You are better than them, so you are doing better than them.

If you do not like carrying people, then don't do LFR. If the group as a whole is progressing with minimal problems, is that not a good thing? If there are a few stragglers, who cares. Just continue, kill the boss and get your loot. That is what you are here for. Why care so much about individual performance? Leave that for progressing raids. LFR is farm for most of you. Treat as such. The guilds I know would usually take a few undergear toons to raids on farm status because their low DPS/HPS does not matter.

[Cinnamohn]

I don't really care about what happens to LFR, but I'll at least add to the discussion.

To be eligible for loot, you must either:
- Be a tank.
- Deal (1/(2 * (1 + # of tanks + dps)))% of the group's total damage.
- Actively heal for 40% of the fight.

If you don't want to do the math, a 10-man of 2/5/3 would require 6.3%, a 25-man of 2/17/6 would require 2.5%.

To put that into perspective, let's assume Thok has 867 mil health in LFR with a 10-min enrage timer. If your group took 8 minutes to down him, all dps above 45k would be eligible for loot. How about a fast kill at 6 minutes? 60k. A slow kill at 10 minutes? 36k.

[ComputerNerd]

removing the stupid vote kicking rules would improve accountability, I think I have a 2 hour wait time on vote kicking and i havnt initiated a kick in a month.

The point about people being able to skip ques is for people with alts, and more people would probably be willing to heal or tank if they could if it meant their mage or warlock didnt have to wait an hour to get into a que

Vote kick is the big thing though, that shit is toxic

And what happens in any group when someone asks for something less than efficient or optimal ?
Vote-kick restrictions are to prevent them being a trivial matter, to make the decision to vote-kick matter.
If the majority of a raid group are willing to kick, then no single member should run into the limitations since the problem players won't be as keen to run the content.

[Osmeric]

SoO has not been a good tier for LFR.

I think player douchebaggery has reached an all time high in SoO LFR. It has nothing to do with Gisc's imaginary "14k dps." It has to do with being brought up by Mom and Dad to be an asshole, and proudly displaying that heritage in-game.

Well, doing 14K as dps in SoO is a specific example of being an asshole.

LFR was just a bad idea. Something like Flex (specifically, something tuned like Flex) should have been where they went in Cataclysm. The notion that LFR was popular and wonderful and everyone could be funnelled into it was just bogus.

If they REALLY want to save LFR, they need to add sophisticated automatic mechanisms for identifying and punishing antisocial behavior and egregiously bad play. And I don't see them making the effort to create those kind of mechanisms.

- - - Updated - - -

Now you're the one who's delusional.

No, queue times are up for dps. And he also mentioned completion rates. The fraction of players who have downed Garrosh (on LFR or above) is shockingly low. LFR is failing at getting people to "see the content". They are just not bothering to finish it.

[satimy]

And what happens in any group when someone asks for something less than efficient or optimal ?
Vote-kick restrictions are to prevent them being a trivial matter, to make the decision to vote-kick matter.
If the majority of a raid group are willing to kick, then no single member should run into the limitations since the problem players won't be as keen to run the content.

Vote kicking being abused would be a godsend compared to it not being able to be used. Its very hard to get kicked from an LFR because everyone has a 2 hour timer, people know this and become toxic players.