Yes there are different skill levels, but it still isn't fair for somebody to not pull their weight. The skill requirement for LFR is low but there is one. Ask yourself, if everybody played at his skill level would the group progress without determination stacking. If yes then fine, but many times it would be a no.
There is no reason for people to just accept they have to carry people in a LFR. Why people care is because they are trying, and others are making them out forth even more because they will not carry their weight. It's not a penalization for them not trying, it's a penalization for those not carrying their weight.
So if the tank derps or happens to hit a lag spike and you, as top DPS, pull aggro early in the fight and die you're ineligible for loot. How is that fair again? I have a better idea. If the thought of someone else getting a piece of substandard loot for tagging along to an instance that you played through is really so frustrating then just don't run LFR. You can always do Flex, Normal, and/or Heroic raids instead.
When was the last time you ran LFR? I chained 6 LFRs in four hours Sunday night as DPS. Maybe the initial queue is longer, but that's because players can now queue for multiple LFRs at once (i.e. everyone can stand in six lines at one time so of course the lines will be longer). However, because you're queued for so many instances at once the net effect is that you get into subsequent instances almost instantly. So 45 minutes for the first instance and then 0-5 minutes for the next one as DPS.
And that is using Oqueue. It's not actually people grouping together, the leader was likely not kicking bad players, it's different from grouping with battle tag friends or having a competent leader. Groups clear Flex in a couple hours. LFR dps queue can be an hour even if the group you get in was all 14/14H. Sure the clear would be quick but you spent way more waiting that a flex group takes yo clear two wings.
Should be for completing it obviously, but it does actually sound like a decent idea for altoholics with the skipping queue on the next run you join with an alt. A fresh one too, since as tank you've contributed more to bringing the queue down, even with you getting first in line as dps once after it.
Agreed that they really should take a look into the kick system. I'm fine with people not having unlimited kicks, since there's a lot of idiots that can't handle that, but if you play often, you shouldn't have the same amount of kicks that one that plays once every year, which you do currently.
Against improved loot chance though. Even a slight one. Rather more valor, or a actually usefull satchel.
Everyone has so much to say
They talk talk talk their lives away
I think you should look up the meaning of the word fine. If you would be so kind as to PM me your in-game character's name and server I will happily put it on my ignore list so I can steer clear of your twisted concept of a "good" community.
Controlling your agro is part of being a good Ayer. Don't go ham on pull or after a tank swap. Every class has defensives and most have agro dumps as well. Whose to say losing agro doesn't count against tanks instead?
There is no reason to just accept people will not put forth effort and carry them. It wasn't designed with an intention to let 5+ people auto attack as a few people actually pull good numbers. If the thought of somebody calling others out for slacking is so offensive to you don't do LFR an do a mode with accountability for others that doesn't lead to flame wars.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
And this is where I quote the portion of Blizzard's Raid Finder Q&A about LFR being intended for:
These are exactly the players who don't have raid-capable BattleTag friends. I'm happy for you that Flex is working out. Then there's no reason for you to run LFR and you can quit complaining about it. Live and let live.players who may not have had the opportunity to take part in raid content due to scheduling conflicts, playtime constraints, limited access to other raid-capable players, or a lack of experience with higher-end content.
I have a feeling they are going to remove Tanks/Heals as being mandatory from the LFR queues as soon as they can, have it in a scenario like situation.
That way you're not pestering with anything and what have you. If you want to queue as tank? GREAT want to queue as healer? GREAT! If not, oh well, you'll survive.
-Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |
WoW Level Scaling Feature
I cant imagine anything that would make tanks get back to tanking LFR, without making it too unfair against other roles. On the other hand, lots of unskilled players would start tanking which could result in more tears from people.
Although I formerly used to do normals and HCs, my school takes a lot of my time so only thing I would be able to run now would be LFR. However, they invented the Flex which made me really happy, with it I dont have to step in LFR.
Last edited by Drekmar; 2013-12-17 at 05:56 PM.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
As you just pointed out, sometimes the DPS pulls aggro early and sometimes mechanics screw with the mob's aggro table so the tank can't get aggro. If you attempted to constrain raid mechanics just to make it easier for the game to auto-detect fails I guarantee you'll hear much more howling from the heroic raiders about how their content is being nerfed for the sake of "bads."
You don't need a reason. It's just a game. If you don't want to "carry" people then don't run LFR. They don't want you in their instance anyway.
Actually it was. It has to be, because when you throw 25 players together there are bound to be a few duds. This is not a surprise. Again, I'll quote the Raid Finder Q&A:
This is double speak. If the thought of holding someone accountable is offensive do a mode that holds players accountable? I think the reverse is the case. If you don't like the lack of accountability then don't run it. Stick with your BattleTag friends and your Flex.Raid Finder will match players up to form a 25-player raid. This allows for a more forgiving experience should errors be made by individual players.
But they are going to fix LFR to be more in line with the intended audience. It turned from "letting everyone interested to see the content" to "only form of gear progression whether or not you like or dislike raid content."
They're going to fix that in WoD. Bring down LFR rewards slightly (probably eliminating tier is all they need to do because getting tier in other content would be weird) and buff rewards from other content such as open world and hard heroic dungeons to be equal. There, now the people running it will all be the intended audience.
In my opinion, you don't notice the good players all that much (tanks and maybe healers aside), it's the douchebags, griefers and waste-of-a-slot players that stick in memory (this is also why people are so convinced LfR sucks, the good flawless runs don't really stay in mind much), so how does it work for the "merely" decent players who keep their heads down and just get the job done without complaining? they won't get many upvotes, so what do they get?
The problem is not LFR, there's too many raid level and timeless isle gear should be lower than LFR.
Flex or Normal or Heroic, I don't care, All I want is the LFR tools to join any group any time, without using an addons like OQ.
No, because I do the best I can in the gear I have. Why would I play a game to AFK? The whole point of the game for me is the encounter. The loot at the end of the fight is a nice bonus. I was perfectly happy in the original Guild Wars where you bought the best gear in the game at max level and from then on it was all transmog. Gear just isn't a priority for me. I honestly am puzzled at all the rage people have at the thought of others in sub-par LFR gear. Most players in LFR are actually trying. I rarely see someone AFK in there. When someone is caught AFKing they are promptly kicked. This forum has a very skewed view of LFR. It's not 5 players trying while 20 others AFK. No bosses would ever go down that way.