Flu vaccine linked to risk of narcolepsy - some denied compensation

[Nefarious Tea]

OK, let us get one thing very straight.

CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION.

Take your ignorant anti-vaccine fear-mongering elsewhere.

[Rylon]

Thus slightly crippling EU's superiority regarding adjuvents. A large part of the reason why the U.S. only uses Alum

[DEATHETERNAL]

Why are young otherwise healthy people getting a flu vaccine anyway?

[Nefarious Tea]

Why are young otherwise healthy people getting a flu vaccine anyway?

The same reason idiots who don't get their children vaccinated are evil: social contact means even one unvaccinated person can spread it to those who cannot receive the vaccine (the elderly, infirm, etc).

[DEATHETERNAL]

Have they shown that the "Pandemrix" vaccine does cause attack on brain cells like the article states or do they just think that as a potential explanation?

The same reason idiots who don't get their children vaccinated are evil: social contact means even one unvaccinated person can spread it to those who cannot receive the vaccine (the elderly, infirm, etc).

It would be far more logical for those at risk to get vaccinated as opposed to everyone. That would save individuals and society as a whole time and money.

[Nefarious Tea]

It would be far more logical for those at risk to get vaccinated as opposed to everyone. That would save individuals and society as a whole time and money.

Except a lot of people can't. Allergies. Health. It's up to everyone ELSE to make sure that by mass immunization, they are safer too.

[DEATHETERNAL]

Except a lot of people can't. Allergies. Health. It's up to everyone ELSE to make sure that by mass immunization, they are safer too.

Still seems cheaper in terms of time and money for the few who can't vaccinate themselves to simply live safer. In terms of the flu, gloves and medical masks for a few versus mass immunization.

[Daerio]

I think the biggest problem with this discussion is typically that people don't even want to discuss it to begin with. They instinctually want to shut down all talk of anything that may be worth talking about. Consider this - Vaccines may have negative side effects, and still be worth using. Does that mean we should completely ignore the possibility that there are negative side effects? No.

These studies and the responses to them remind me of the studies that 'proved' cigarettes don't cause lung cancer for decades.

[Wells]

Why are young otherwise healthy people getting a flu vaccine anyway?

If they live with someone who's compromised or work around them its not a bad idea assuming supply can support

[Masark]

It would be far more logical for those at risk to get vaccinated as opposed to everyone. That would save individuals and society as a whole time and money.

Except for the little issue that the thing that makes them at risk also makes vaccinating them basically pointless.

[Varabently]

Unfortunately this kind of "study" can't prove a causal link. Just like ice cream sales and murder both go up in the summer, there's no reason to think the two are related.

I have had the flu vaccine every year for 20 years or so. I wouldn't compensate them because there's no way to prove causality here. If I get a flu shot, then two weeks later I'm diagnosed with brain cancer, should I assume they are related? Should I get compensated? Of course not.

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Still seems cheaper in terms of time and money for the few who can't vaccinate themselves to simply live safer. In terms of the flu, gloves and medical masks for a few versus mass immunization.

Vaccines are incredibly cheap compared to hospitalization costs after getting the flu. You get a vaccine when you're healthy because you dont want to get it. Proactive costs are ALWAYS cheaper than reactive costs.

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Have they shown that the "Pandemrix" vaccine does cause attack on brain cells like the article states or do they just think that as a potential explanation?


It would be far more logical for those at risk to get vaccinated as opposed to everyone. That would save individuals and society as a whole time and money.

Of course they haven't shown that it causes anything, it's all correlational.

What do you mean the cost to "society?" It took me and my wife about 30 minutes total to both get flu shots. It was free from our health insurance. The cost was nothing.

[MerinPally]

Vaccines are incredibly cheap compared to hospitalization costs after getting the flu. You get a vaccine when you're healthy because you dont want to get it. Proactive costs are ALWAYS cheaper than reactive costs.

True but there are some people as someone else mentioned who simply cannot have the vaccine due to other health costs. Due to herd immunity, if everyone else gets it then they'll be fine. If however you have a bunch of people ELECTING not to get it due to unfound claims of side effects, then your population of unvaccinated people gets way bigger than it should and the benefits of herd immunity begin to dwindle.

Aaaanyway - another study, posted on mmoc, which has big holes in it and doesn't actually prove anything. Yet we still have a minority believing it. Don't waste your time on it, it's rubbish.

[Arlon]

Just compensate the "victims". Narcolepsy can effectively ruin any chances of a career or even a simple job. It makes no sense to be assholes with this due to the small number of people involved. More money has been spent on financing far less "noble" or useful things.

[Citizen T]

What do you mean the cost to "society?" It took me and my wife about 30 minutes total to both get flu shots. It was free from our health insurance. The cost was nothing.

I was mostly with you until this. If you really believe that this is free then ........

I have to stop now before I get banned

[Azutael]

There where several cases in Norway as well a few years back with this vaccine. I think it is awful that some don't get compensation.
But as usual the major pharmaceutical companies etc will do their best to deny all claims that an illness is linked to their products.

Nothing new, profit is more important than a few people's lives and health. That's just the world we live in.

[Eliandal]

If they live with someone who's compromised or work around them its not a bad idea assuming supply can support

Having worked in a call center environment, and seeing the results of what one infected person can do to productivity - it's not a bad idea. While there are always those with fantastic immune systems - young people can catch the flu as readily as anyone else - especially when you are spending hours at a time in an enclosed environment. It's why the center I used to work in began a fall vaccination program a few years ago.

[Deleted]

I'm on no way anti-vaccination nuts, quite the opposite but I think there's something in this. We've had in pretty much all of our news pretty much about this thing in Finland too and there was national research group set up by government officials to investigate the case and they found causation link with narcolepsy at teenagers and this specific swine-flu vaccine. There've been couple studies about it over time now and the latest (that is going on) has given some results this very week considering the probable cause of the narcolepsy cases. It had something to do with one of the substances in vaccine tricking immune system or some such (read about it from news). All victims were paid compensation by my knowledge.

Sadly I couldn't find anything else but the end report of national research group in Finnish, for now. But if you're interested you can try use Google translate (even though it's shitty with Finnish -.-'): http://www.thl.fi/thl-client/pdfs/c0...8-5161b6cff077
THL is Finland's National Institute for Health and Welfare so I would say it's rather credible source.

But about vaccinations over all. I'm all for them and I hate nothing more than those conspiracy anti-vaccination/anti-medicine nuts. I would go as far as that normal childhood vaccinations should be compulsory regardless of parents wishes because anti-vaccination is threatening other people's lives. Unless of course you have some medical reason that mean you can't have vaccinations.

[Twoflower]

http://www.quickmeme.com/p/3vqjb0

All I can think of.

[Gheld]

OK, let us get one thing very straight.

CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION.

Take your ignorant anti-vaccine fear-mongering elsewhere.

INb4 blah blah blah anti-vaxxers

http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/co..._statement/en/

This is actually old news. But the WHO felt preliminary findings warranted further investigation.

And considering that the efficacy of flu vaccination is unproven at this point in time, it's a whole different ball game than if it were the measils vaccine.

[Masark]

And considering that the efficacy of flu vaccination is unproven at this point in time

Ontario has found it to be pretty effective.