Tenton Hammer names Guild Wars 2 best MMO of 2013

[Baracuda]

I enjoyed GW2 so much I refunded it 3 months after buying, though actually quitting 2-4 weeks after its release. Despite WoW being a clusterfuck of stuff going on in combat I enjoy it more. But the shared tag system is much better.

[draykorinee]

gw2 cash shop is obnoxious, i avoided it like the plague, crazy prices for stuff i would almost deem mandatory.

[Shaede]

They do have sales on stuff, I've gotten the character slots at 600 gems before.

The achievement system works perfectly for that, porting out for heritage armor is irksome. I do agree that it should be an unlock though, but I mean, obviously as a consumer I agree we should get more value from our purchases.

I think they've pulled back somewhat from town clothes, taking out a bunch of stuff to "trim the store" or whatever bunk. I wouldn't doubt if it's just going to be a costume brawl thing, but haven't seen anything official.

Pets for $10, Mounts for $25, helmets for $10. The account fees also seem very high to me (server transfer, renames, race change, faction change), but oh well.
Other than 1 pet that can be purchased for cash and sold for gold, I do not believe any of them have a method for obtaining via any in game activity.

Let's make a big deal out of the 10 or so pets and mounts WoW has sold in their store in a time frame of between wrath and now. Let's also forget the incredible, insane amount of pets and mounts that are available in-game. Let's also forget that buying a mount or a pet ONCE unlocks it forever for your entire account both present and future characters on any realm, any faction. Yea..let's ignore all of that so we can act like Blizzard is ripping people off.

[Smitzelplix]

Let's make a big deal out of the 10 or so pets and mounts WoW has sold in their store in a time frame of between wrath and now. Let's also forget the incredible, insane amount of pets and mounts that are available in-game. Let's also forget that buying a mount or a pet ONCE unlocks it forever for your entire account both present and future characters on any realm, any faction. Yea..let's ignore all of that so we can act like Blizzard is ripping people off.

Both WoW's and GW2's cash shops could use some adjustments in prices, both have some big price tags attached for virtual items and in WoW's case most of it is priced more than a months worth of subscription time.

[Svifnymr]

Let's make a big deal out of the 10 or so pets and mounts WoW has sold in their store in a time frame of between wrath and now. Let's also forget the incredible, insane amount of pets and mounts that are available in-game. Let's also forget that buying a mount or a pet ONCE unlocks it forever for your entire account both present and future characters on any realm, any faction. Yea..let's ignore all of that so we can act like Blizzard is ripping people off.

I'm not ignoring anything, my warlock has 150 pets (IIRC, is that the doe?), though I've never purchased one. Back in MY day, they weren't account wide! (Though I didn't get serious until after the "learn a pet" thing.) We're discussing cash shops and comparing them, so I mentioned what they charged.

The pet prices didn't seem high to me, the mounts did, and the helmets seem WAY overpriced. The price for server transfers is also way out of line, IMO, especially given the circumstances, but so be it. You also ignored in that same post where I pointed out that GW2 should make the purchases account wide and that WoW doesn't have a method for obtaining the items via in game currency.

Not that any of it matters, though I haven't played in a long time, I'm sure every time a new item is added the cities are full of them the next day. There were so many sparkle ponies that first day, they practically lit up the sky.

[Shaede]

I'm just saying they really are not comparable. GW2 has to rely on that, while WoW really doesn't. If they were really comparable they'd be selling Valor boosters like Karma boosters, or RNG boxes or keys for RNG boxes. It's just apples and oranges at the end of the day. Blizzards's store that sells mount and pets and those three helms is added to very, very slowly.

Like I said before it all began in Wrath with the Celestial Steed. From that time period til now it's still not even that big. Now I can't claim with certainty that this will be the case, but I'm willing to bet if we wait and give GW2's store the same amount of time, it will be a lot bigger. But that should be expected..because that's what Arena Net relies on.

[Svifnymr]

Both WoW's and GW2's cash shops could use some adjustments in prices, both have some big price tags attached for virtual items and in WoW's case most of it is priced more than a months worth of subscription time.

I like to divide things into "bonus" or "extortion". Most of both cash shops are bonuses, server transfer fees in WoW= extortion, GW2 bank/ bag fees= extortion. SW:TOR... dear god, they extort you for xp gain, equipping gear, hide head slot, access to the money you've earned, and 80 other things...

As I said above though, value is a subjective thing, since sparkle ponies abounded and I'm sure every new mount has been the same way. People are paying it, so they'd be stupid to reduce it. Same with GW2, if they're selling enough Phoenix Armor without needing to make them use a similar system to the achievement skins, who am I to judge? I mean, they raised the price when the gathering tools went Account Bound instead of Soulbound... How do they JUSTIFY that? (Other than "well, we'll sell fewer now", obviously.)

[Smitzelplix]

WoW selling costumes is new to me so I took a look at their site. Currently they have 3 helmets for sale (that's the extent of their "costumes") and they are all account wide. There's Big Difference #1.

They currently have 6 mounts for sale and as far as I know that's been the extent of it since WotLK (Celestial Steed), so they've added 5 additional mounts over the past 4 years (almost one mount a year). I could be mistaken, but I don't believe any of them have ever been removed from the store since they were added, so none of this limited/one-time-only BS. Compared to GW2 which has a new series of temporary items every 2 weeks.

The pets are a little different since WoW added pet battles, they serve a function beyond being a companion. Also, while this may be subjective, I never notice pets in GW2 but I noticed them all the time in WoW. Once again, the pets are account bound. I suppose you could argue they are for GW2 as well, but considering you have to keep the pet in an individual character's inventory to use it kind of defeats the purpose.

There are currently 11 pets, I easily recognize 5 of them from WotLK, 5 of them from Cata, and 1 for MoP. Assuming each WoW expansion lasts ~2 years then that's almost one pet every 5 months. Course, you could argue that WoW isn't having to survive solely on box sales + store purchases and therefore doesn't need to introduce new items every 2 weeks, that's fine, I'm just pointing out the differences.

Additionally, something that GW2 does that drives me nuts (and makes me really glad I did not try to be a mini collector) are the forge pets. So you have to buy the mini pack off the store TWICE: once for the pets to keep and once to combine them all into the forge pet. That is completely insane. The fact that anyone is okay with that is a sad commentary.

Okay those are some good examples of WoW's system being different, but I think both cash shops are still quite comparable especially with what they offer which is what I was mainly focusing on. Your examples are more to do with how each system differs in how they offer their virtual goods like WoW's system being account bound vs. one time use of GW2.

Also there's trade offs to both, in GW2 you get a full armor set that can only be used once but they are all typically 800 gems or $10, while these new helms from WoW are $5 dollars more and you're only getting the helm. As for mini pets, I agree that while GW2's minis are account bound it is tedious to have to have them in your inventory to use them, hopefully in the future a ui element much like the currency wallet will be made but for your mini pets.

[tratra]

Guildwars 2 by far, if they only had pve set up in the first place....

[Kuul]

Shame the game had story from a fantasy b-movie and pretty much nothing to do after first 2 weeks of you dinging max level.
Sure I guess things have changed since then someway but as far as I understand if you want the best high end game from MMORPG you pick WoW/Rift.

[Lane]

Same with GW2, if they're selling enough Phoenix Armor without needing to make them use a similar system to the achievement skins, who am I to judge?

Apparently a lot of financially frivolous people play GW2 (and probably MMOs in general) because I frequently read about people who spent $300+ on BLKs to get the weapon skins. I'm frankly surprised that Anet started allowing them to be sold on the TP because people were spending ridiculous amounts of money on RNG.

[Deleted]

When Blizzard first debuted the store with the sparkle pony $25 sadly seemed like a deal. Given the amount of grinding and/or RNG involved in getting nice mounts in WoW to get one assuredly, that had the bonus of being account wide (before mounts were account wide by default), and served a double function of being both a land and air mount (before Azeroth flying), kind of sounded too good to be true. Things are different now, but no MMO has ever adjusted their prices to be lower. Hell, WoW is still considered the standard pricing model for just about everything.

The pets are a little different since WoW added pet battles, they serve a function beyond being a companion. Also, while this may be subjective, I never notice pets in GW2 but I noticed them all the time in WoW. Once again, the pets are account bound. I suppose you could argue they are for GW2 as well, but considering you have to keep the pet in an individual character's inventory to use it kind of defeats the purpose.

Oh crikey, I`d completely forgotten (or blocked out) the sparkle pony. That thing was sodding awful, to the point I told a mate I wouldn`t boost him in arena until he removed it from his spell bar, at least for the duration....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCjuFpQ3EeA

As for mount/pet grinding, I guess some did take a long time, but it never seemed to bother me. Probably sat in bg queues so had spare time. I recall Northrend pet that could also ride a second horse took longest, but was funky.

Best mount (out of my 150+ (similar number of pets) was my battle wolf from rbgs.
One of first few on server to get one, if not first. Oddly, those pets & mounts, it used to be something I was chuffed about, whereas in gw2, the only thing I ever got chuffed about was surviving the games balance ;p

Also agree re: pets in warcraft, most folk notice them, whereas in gw2, they`re such a clunky thing & barely worth the effort.
Reminds me of anet removing some pets ability to appear in water because "they don`t have the appropriate swimming animations", which meant having to double click the sodding things after leaving borderlands lake, *every* freakin` time.....

Another flashback. Aion pets. Now those I liked also, not just beccause it`s another toy, but they even had uses. Extra storage, chance of finding extra loot if pet was kept happy etc.
Aah, my little pink erm...hamster thingie? Ooh, & my panda type thingie

[Karizee]

Apparently a lot of financially frivolous people play GW2 (and probably MMOs in general) because I frequently read about people who spent $300+ on BLKs to get the weapon skins. I'm frankly surprised that Anet started allowing them to be sold on the TP because people were spending ridiculous amounts of money on RNG.

Oh yeah, it's crazy what some people will pay for toys and games. I know this one fella that bought a Warhammer table top army set for $5,000. And I have another friend that's easily spent twice that on Magic the Gathering. Any kind of collectibles really can go sky high if the market is there and digital collectibles are no different. Remember that player that broke a sword in Lineage worth $28k a couple months back? (and people wonder why Lineage is still so popular).

Rarity = Value (if the market is there) and honestly anyone can make a legendary weapon with a little effort. It's the limited time items that will give your account value over the long term. Things like the first year Halloween weapons (I was considering picking up the Scythe staff just before Halloween at 200g, I wish I had - it's 650g now! And the shield? Went from 400g to 1200g. I shudder to think what those will be worth in a couple years time.)

Now I've spent about 1/2 the RL cash on GW2 that I would have spent on a sub fee since launch. I've never needed to buy gems to convert to gold because gold is fairly easy to make. I have bought gems to show my support for the game and used those as well as ingame gold to buy vanity stuff. I don't see the cash shop as egregious since you can use ingame gold to get anything you want - even things like server transfers, character recustomizations and name changes. The only thing I've ever felt a NEED for from the gem store was extra bank tabs. I've bought more skins than I'll ever use, I still have a couple sets that I haven't even unpacked yet.

But when it comes down to it, I think where people get concerned about the gem shop is not so much the gem or gold cost of skins, it's because of the cash to gold conversion. I mean, people don't mind spending gold in other games for pets or mounts or gear or anything, but spending a single gold in GW2 gets painted as this major league crime, like ANet is coming to your house and stealing the gold out of your grandma's pockebook. And it's not because gold is so freakin' rare because it's not. It's because gold has a perception of RL value in this game.

Not sure if I'm getting my point across, I may be rambling :P

[Bigbamboozal]

I think my bitter cohorts here on mmochamp have a point, albeit jaded...
In light of that I offer up a simple phrase to embody most posts spirit:

Peoples choice awards or gtfo.

Anything else is damn laughable, just like the movie industry and the music industry and probably other industries as well.
Sorry if that sounds angry or whatever, but after getting jacked around by company execs payola scams in the previously mentioned industries, we can take the words of any of these websites AS THE WORD OF GOD, if god was a lying, cheating, scheming, money grubbing shyster...who is MOST CERTAINLY on the payroll, or at least worried about losing some hefty advert revenue.

[Lane]

Rarity = Value (if the market is there) and honestly anyone can make a legendary weapon with a little effort. It's the limited time items that will give your account value over the long term. Things like the first year Halloween weapons (I was considering picking up the Scythe staff just before Halloween at 200g, I wish I had - it's 650g now! And the shield? Went from 400g to 1200g. I shudder to think what those will be worth in a couple years time.)

One thing GW2 in particular has taught me is you cannot count on anything. I would not be in the least bit surprised if those old Halloween skins were reissued at some point, especially since Anet's already done exactly that with other supposedly retired skins.

Plus, an account having "value" is so subjective. It depends on how popular the game is, what the items are, how desirable those items are to other individuals, etc. Not to mention that selling accounts is usually against the TOS of any given game. Vanity items, in particular, are more like "NRFB" (never removed from box) toys. Most people would pay way more for them if they're not attached to someone else's characters. Most of the accounts I have seen sell for a lot (in any MMO) are ones with multiple high level, very well geared (BiS) characters. Maybe some do sell well based solely on rare vanity items, but I personally haven't seen it. Frankly, most accounts aren't valued for what they're really worth when you break it down to the amount of time spent on them.

Best mount (out of my 150+ (similar number of pets) was my battle wolf from rbgs.
One of first few on server to get one, if not first.

Same. I was the second one on my server to get the war kodo, and the third to get the war saber (only because BG mounts weren't restricted by race and every non-NE wanted the cat). It wasn't long after the latter that Blizzard made them available for pittance after I'd spent easily 6 months full time PvPing for each one. (The old honor system was horrific, especially if you were on the losing side, which I managed to be on both times. -_-) Yeah, not proud of that, and definitely won't be repeating that mistake.

That's the single only instance of a game making "prestigious" items commonplace that made me feel embittered. Now I just don't bother with anything absurdly difficult to obtain, especially since 9 times out of 10 if you give the company a few months they'll nerf how hard it is to get anyway.

[Deleted]

One thing GW2 in particular has taught me is you cannot count on anything. I would not be in the least bit surprised if those old Halloween skins were reissued at some point, especially since Anet's already done exactly that with other supposedly retired skins.

Plus, an account having "value" is so subjective. It depends on how popular the game is, what the items are, how desirable those items are to other individuals, etc. Not to mention that selling accounts is usually against the TOS of any given game. Vanity items, in particular, are more like "NRFB" (never removed from box) toys. Most people would pay way more for them if they're not attached to someone else's characters. Most of the accounts I have seen sell for a lot (in any MMO) are ones with multiple high level, very well geared (BiS) characters. Maybe some do sell well based solely on rare vanity items, but I personally haven't seen it. Frankly, most accounts aren't valued for what they're really worth when you break it down to the amount of time spent on them.



Same. I was the second one on my server to get the war kodo, and the third to get the war saber (only because BG mounts weren't restricted by race and every non-NE wanted the cat). It wasn't long after the latter that Blizzard made them available for pittance after I'd spent easily 6 months full time PvPing for each one. (The old honor system was horrific, especially if you were on the losing side, which I managed to be on both times. -_-) Yeah, not proud of that, and definitely won't be repeating that mistake.

That's the single only instance of a game making "prestigious" items commonplace that made me feel embittered. Now I just don't bother with anything absurdly difficult to obtain, especially since 9 times out of 10 if you give the company a few months they'll nerf how hard it is to get anyway.

I`d forgotten about the standard bg mounts, they were funky too, only was of getting cross mounts wasn`t it? My Undead mage always looked weird on a Kodo lol
But I agree, something hard to obtain shouldn`t be made a cake walk further down the road, as it devalues the thing massively.
Surprised they did that with Ashes mount, throwing it onto that trading/store or wtf it was. (long after I quit so don`t know the name)
I recall the old honour system, I seemed lucky, could fill that 75k (think that was its cap) far too easily & end up with nothing to use it on.

[Lora]

I mean, do the awards automatically disqualify WoW since everyone knows how much of a powerhouse it is?

[TequilaFlavor]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12...f-2013-awards/

Other 2013 Awards from Massively went to:

MMO of the Year - Final Fantasy XIV

Sorry, but they just lost every once of credibility they might have had right there.

[Super Kami Dende]

I would say "undeserved" since I find GW2 to be one of the shittiest MMO's I've ever played.

But when the entire year was just full of crappy MMO releases, I guess one turd has to be the best turd :/

[zito]

Sorry, but they just lost every once of credibility they might have had right there.

I kinda agree because below it...

Best New MMO of 2013: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Runners-up: Tie between Neverwinter and Defiance

Defiance as a runner up for Best new MMO of the year? Yea no.