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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Humbugged's Avatar
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    Instead of preserving what made WoW the greatest game of all time, they forced their players to adapt to new age MMO design (limited abilities, Facebook-style social features, little effort = big reward, little immersion)

    There was additions added to WoW that somebody didn't like at some point - for all of us. We went kicking and screaming but they passed it anyway, determined there philosophy was the way of the future.
    Last edited by Humbugged; 2013-12-23 at 06:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
    If it's too hard, go to bed and forget about it.

    - Manakin.

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Instead of preserving what made WoW the greatest game of all time, they forced their players to adapt to new age MMO design (limited abilities, Facebook-style social features, little effort = big reward, little immersion)

    There was additions added to WoW that somebody didn't like at some point - for all of us. We went kicking and screaming but they passed it anyway, determined there philosophy was the way of the future.

    6 million subs was it?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correla...mply_causation

  3. #23
    The Lightbringer Humbugged's Avatar
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    Ah yes, I knew by adding that final sentence would render the rest of my post irrelevant, let me fix that for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manakin View Post
    If it's too hard, go to bed and forget about it.

    - Manakin.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    This list proves how much Cata and MoP improved the game.
    Yes it does.

  5. #25
    I am Murloc! Taftvalue's Avatar
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    yeah that'd be great, maybe Blizzard will see their attempt to lure more players to this game with convenience has utterly failed, I doubt it tho tbh, they are delusional
    You kill or you die. Or you die and you kill.
    Tell them only that the Lich King is dead and that World of Warcraft died with him.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Fearin View Post
    a monk wanting to make life a pain for other classes.. ok.

    implenting this again would do nothing good for the game.
    Which one's the monk? Let's flog him!

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Razecog View Post
    This list proves how much Cata and MoP improved the game.
    Yep, improved it so much half the people playing it left.

  8. #28
    I'd love for reagents to come back to the game ._. I loved it as a warlock to need the shards and the stones. It feelt special somehow.

  9. #29
    A lot of these changes have nothing whatsoever to do with immersion. They just make the game more convenient by having them.

  10. #30
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    The majority of that list isn't immersion, but content blockades. Once the community realises they're different things, then we can start to have a real discussion on the matter.

  11. #31
    Immersion. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Almost all of your proposals are a removal of quality of life changes that made the game more bearable or to no longer punished new players or just let you do what it is your class does.

    What immerses me in a game? The overall story, the characters, the lore, actual voiced dialog on quests, not just a handful of greetings as I click on the NPCs to initiate and complete the quests. Being able to engage in an actual conversation with an NPC, even if it serves no purpose.

    Yes I got my UBRS key and my scholomance key, my shadowforge key, I did my onyxia attunement, I did all my warlock pet quests at level, I did my dreadsteed quest, I did my swift flight form quest, doesn't mean the quests immersed me in the game, well the reading the quest text for the quests did rather than the actual completing of them did.


    More things making the world seem alive and full of people who aren't robots repeating the same yes master thank you master phrases when you click on them immerses you in the game/world, not stuff that delays content. Stuff that makes you feel like you are the character you are playing and you are part of another world is immersion.

    And no I am not exclusively talking about pretending to be a night elf female in the "porn"shire Inn on Moonguard.
    Last edited by Cernunnos; 2013-12-23 at 06:44 PM.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooGaming View Post
    The majority of that list isn't immersion, but content blockades. Once the community realises they're different things, then we can start to have a real discussion on the matter.
    But isn't it sort of the same? Immersion is about feeling like you're in a live/”real” world and not inside a computer game. Stuff like portals and menus break immersion because there is no way to relate to them with real-world events.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by gowron View Post
    Yep, improved it so much half the people playing it left.
    12M - 5M = 7M

    50% of 12M = 6M

    Math seems off a bit

  14. #34
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    But isn't it sort of the same? Immersion is about feeling like you're in a live/”real” world and not inside a computer game. Stuff like portals and menus break immersion because there is no way to relate to them with real-world events.
    The content can be immersive, without taking ~4 hours to get into it.

    Portals, Menus, User Interfaces, no matter how well you develop your game, you're going to have these things. Even things such as Spellbooks, which have been designed carefully by the G.U.I. team still break immersion to a degree, because they're a prettier version of a Menu.

    Things such as bringing back Ammo, I agree is immersion, however, things like Attunements isn't immersion, It's a pain in the ass for everyone except the minority of people who view that as content. All it does it mean when you get a new recruit, you gotta waste 24 peoples time getting them through this silly series of events to access the latest content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gowron View Post
    Yep, improved it so much half the people playing it left.
    You're telling me that you believe the only factor in the decline of Subscriptions is the lack of immersion?

    You honestly believe that if Blizzard maintained the Classic / Burning Crusade model, they'd have ever hit that ~12 Million mark?

  15. #35
    Mechagnome
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    I like that people don't get the joke
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  16. #36
    probably the only thing here i would want back are the class specific questlines, everything else and stay out, they can just find new ways to add immersion without screwing with conveniences

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    Math seems off a bit
    Those numbers are 3 months old.
    I made a current estimate based on a trend

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooGaming View Post
    The content can be immersive, without taking ~4 hours to get into it.

    Portals, Menus, User Interfaces, no matter how well you develop your game, you're going to have these things. Even things such as Spellbooks, which have been designed carefully by the G.U.I. team still break immersion to a degree, because they're a prettier version of a Menu.

    Things such as bringing back Ammo, I agree is immersion, however, things like Attunements isn't immersion, It's a pain in the ass for everyone except the minority of people who view that as content. All it does it mean when you get a new recruit, you gotta waste 24 peoples time getting them through this silly series of events to access the latest content.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You're telling me that you believe the only factor in the decline of Subscriptions is the lack of immersion?

    You honestly believe that if Blizzard maintained the Classic / Burning Crusade model, they'd have ever hit that ~12 Million mark?
    I absolutely agree that you shouldn't try to remove everything that threatens immersion, but at the same time, removing everything that is the slightest bit troublesome (example here would be the leveling process that is terrifyingly monotone and simplistic) I think would be even more damaging to the game.

  19. #39
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
    I absolutely agree that you shouldn't try to remove everything that threatens immersion, but at the same time, removing everything that is the slightest bit troublesome (example here would be the leveling process that is terrifyingly monotone and simplistic) I think would be even more damaging to the game.
    Convenience is rarely the ally of Entertainment. Things are much more rewarding and worthwhile when you've worked hard for them, agreed, but there is a thin line that takes years to get right. Blizzard have certainly moved in the right direction over the years. Not suggesting they've got it quite right for all aspects of their game, some cases they've gone too far, but overall it's far better today.

    Games need to be accessible, for a whole host of reasons that would be worthy of their own interesting thread, but remember, games are no longer confined to the few elite of the world, they're now designed for the majority. While it's great to include immersion, if that immersion turns off 90% of your customer base, you won't have a game at all.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    I like that people don't get the joke
    This. No one is reading the full post, and i dont even think he edited that part in.

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